atxbudgrower
Active Member
yea if you cross it once i think that makes it a f1 hybrid im not sure then you keep crossing them they go up the scale f2,f3,f4 etc etc
Autoflower Thread & Resource Guide
- Thread starter KolorBlind
- Start date
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
Yeah I have never been real sure about the whole F1, F2, etc. stuff either. Based on a recent reading, I think the F1 is technically the first "satabilized" batch of seeds. Then you breed the healthiest male & female from that batch, you have F2, and so forth. Not 100% sure though, anyone who knows for sure is more than welcome to chime in.
KB
C
canefan
Guest
Lets see if I remember this correctly, you breed the auto male to a female, in turn you have a F1 in your seeds. The F1 you then grow and breed back to the original auto to obtain the F2 and give more genes to to auto. The F3 is then grown and bred back to the original strain you are trying to make your new auto. This really should be done with several plants of each group in order to obtain the traits you are looking for. I have just started this process with lowryder #1 and a strain I have grown in the mountains for a few years. Hopes this helps and is what I remember from college biology and recent reading.
atxbudgrower
Active Member
checked my cups today and one seedling broke through the soil and 3 more are just about to poke their heads out one cup i cant see if its going to grow but 4 out of 5 for my first time i dont think is so bad lol
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
Very awesome man, glad to hear it. Make sure those little seedlings dont dry out or they will burn up. If the cup still feels like it doesnt need water but the top layer is bone dry, spray them a few times with a water bottle.
I went out of town and 4 of my 20 seeds dried up a bit too much and shriveled up to nothing. but I still have 16 looking great, and one of them has 3 petals & 3 leaves for its first set. Should be an interesting lookin plant, hope it turns female so I can watch it grow to the end!!
I took a pic of it last night, Ill post it tonight if I remember.
KB
(Butters)
Well-Known Member
Great topic to bring up as there is all kinds of confusion on it.
Truth be told, there is very little standardization of what is a "true" F1 cross and what is a "true" F2 cross in the weed growing community.
By definition, an F1 cross is the 1st generation between any 2 unrelated seedlines. They can be stable or unstable depending on the cross.
You and I are also technically F1 crosses ourselves (hopefully
). Our parents are from different family lineages, and boom, we are the F1 cross (hopefully stable too). An F2 cross is merely the offspring of any two F1 crosses (presumably from the same F1 stock).
So, if we (we being a true F1) were to pollinate another F1 offspring (ie sibling
), the result would be an F2 cross (and a really screwed up kid 
)The part where this terminology really gets confusing and lacks standardization is when we start mixing F1 crosses from different strains together. What the hell is it then?
This is where the terminology in the marijuana growing culture falls apart a bit.
Take a cross between an Auto AK47 to an Auto Blueberry. We call this an F1 cross in this community. In theory, the Auto AK47 is now stabilized as is the Auto BB and together, God willing, we will get a stable autoflowering F1 cross of Auto AK47 x Auto BB.
And likewise, if we take our F1 Auto AK47 x Auto BB plant, and make seeds from them, we have our F2 strain. Again, stable due to the autoflowering trait that they will all (or almost all) posess.
But it starts to become unclear what to call it when we take our Auto AK x Auto BB F1 cross and then cross it with White Widow. What the hell do we have then? An F2? A new F1?
Long story short, when trying to breed seeds, try not to get too caught up in the whole "am I making an F1 or an F2 cross here". Just track your crosses meticulously to keep track of it's lineage, make sure the plant does what you want it to, and make sure it gets you real high
.I included a link to a decent article on the subject for those who are interested. And remember, keep track of your crosses. The last thing you want is to create the Holy Grail of marijuana plants and have no idea about it's true lineage
Tough to win the Cannabis Cup that way.
Butters
http://www.onlinepot.org/grow/hybredplants.htm
atxbudgrower
Active Member
yea im gonna keep a close eye on them i have them on a 18/6 light cycle should i change it to 24/0? or keep it the same?
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
The light cycle is 100% your call. In my opinion, I would stick with 18/6 through the whole run if thats what you had planned on. If you planned to switch to 20/4 after sexing or something, that's fine too.
I have found that it is better to try different things than to take someone else's word for it. Just because something works great for one guy, doesn't mean it will work well for everyone.
I would just advise to have a plan & stick to it, that way you know just how well that plan worked, and if you want to change the plan next time you will have something to compare it to.
I have heard of people having great success growing 24/0 from seed, and even 12/12 from seed with AF strains. Now some people will say it diminishes your yield doing it this way or that way, which may be true but the fact of the matter is that you WILL get bud. And it will be 100 times better than anything you would buy in a bag. Having said that, the Joint Doctor's official writeup said they had better reports from growers using 20/4 from seed to harvest on Diesel Ryders.
I personally am using 24/0 for the first 2 weeks then switching to 20/4 for the remainder to compare the difference for myself and my growing conditions. Which ever you choose you will get fat nugs to smoke, just make sure you try different things from grow to grow to see how well you can dial things in, and eventually find that perfect setup/schedule for your particular needs.
Peace
KB
atxbudgrower
Active Member
thanks kb im gonna stick with 18/6 this run and next time 20/4 and all 5 seeds popped and are on their way to growing cant wait
Evil Buddies
Ganja King
I'm gonna for my next grow do a lil experiment. I'm gonna grow one under sunlight on my windowsill, one under cfl and the rest under HPS. It will be good to see how they compare to each other. The HPS should be the best out of them all but if the ones grown under sunlight and cfl turn out good then i will continue to grow them this way. So if my HPS is full with plants can have some extra auto plants growing to.
Evil
Evil
atxbudgrower
Active Member
i ran into this info awhile back thought it would be useful to anyone wanting to make seeds im sure it would work on autoflowering strains too
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/34027-somas-version-making-feminized-seeds.html
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/34027-somas-version-making-feminized-seeds.html
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
Very good link, will have to keep that bookmarked for sure!
So I have liftoff in my mini fridge with my Diesel Ryder SOG. 4 of my 20 seedlings didnt make it for various reasons. The rest are lookin very nice, just thought I would share a picture of one that has a funky mutation. It sprouted with 3 petals and is growing leaves in sets of 3 intead of sets of 2. Here are a couple shots form today.
Top
Side
I will post some pics of the grow once things take off a bit more, dont wanna flood this thread too much with my own crap
If anyone knows what that mutation is called please let me know, I googled my butt off and couldnt find much.Peace
KB
atxbudgrower
Active Member
i saw a thread on here where around 5 plants had a mutation where they grew 3 fan leaves instead on the normal 5 maybe this the same?
MoppinSauce
Well-Known Member
I've got AK47xLowryder going right now...why is it that I cannot clone off them once mature enough? I haven't done much research, but this just seems unbelievable. Why is it that you can not clone off a female?
Also, edited to ask will I get the same results should I put them on 12/12 with the rest of my girls? I really have no other option...
Also, edited to ask will I get the same results should I put them on 12/12 with the rest of my girls? I really have no other option...
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
Well, in short, the reason you cannot clone an autoflowering strain is because it knows how old it is. A normal strain can be fooled to grow for a LOOOONG time under 13+ hours of light a day in a vegetative state. Autofloweing plants do not have a vegetation stage so if you cut a 30 day old clone off an AF plant and planted it, it would still think it is 30 days old and would only live for about another month.
Since AF strains start flowering so early, even if you took a clone (if its even possible) before flowering, the clone would probably flower, and for that matter die just after the original plant. Thats the number one downside in my opinion to growing AFs.
However, if you can heavily pollinate a female AK/LR with a female AK/LR every seed should give you AK/LR plants. And since they only take 2-3 weeks to sex, you can grow lots of them in small containers and never have to transplant the males, just kill em when they show.
Now as far as 12/12 goes, not only will you get a lower yield but the plants can finish from 1-2 weeks earlier. Now if you have a BUNCH of plants going, this could be a good thing, but 18+ hours of light a day will give you much better results per plant. They will grow just fine under 12/12 so if that's your only option then do it, I have a Diesel Ryder in my big fridge on 12/12 now and its doing wonderful, just a lot less bed on it than my ones I grew under the 150w HPS at 20/4.
If you have any questions on pollinating feel free to ask, its so easy a caveman could do it
Also, for a better description of how AF plants work, check the very first post I made in this thread if you haven't, it may help answer a few questions too.Peace
KB
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
Yeah i found some stuff on that too. I think that has more to do with light stress. it seems to happen a lot to people who veg indoors then plant outdoors too early or late. The sun doesn't give the right amount of light per day and they get locked in veg state, growing fan leaves with only 3 tips.
This is some kind of genetic mutation I think that only can start from seed. Im almost 100% positive its referred to as a trifoliate. Not sure if this is scientific, but Ive seen other pictures, and people claiming to sell guaranteed trifoliate seeds for thousands of dollars, lol.
From what others say, its very rare. A few guys over on ICMag that have been growing for years say they have never had one. I feel honored, I sure hope its female!! Should know in a week or so.
Peace
KB
atxbudgrower
Active Member
what would be the benefits of that mutation? for it to sell for thousands of dollars? and i read thread that had one outside and had the mutation but i couldnt find it had it in a sweet outdoor set up and fence lol and i friend of mine told me you could clone autoflowers but you had to use test tube and shit like that very unpractable for the hobby grower to utilize i forgot what the process was called i need to contact him again for the info
atxbudgrower
Active Member
hey KB how old is that seedling? mine just popped not to long ago and are waaaaay taller than that does that have to do with the mutation?
KolorBlind
Well-Known Member
In the picture the seedling is 7 days old. One thing with seedlings, taller is not always better. If its too much taller than mine and around the same age it may be stretched. Stretched plants will require tie downs or steaks once buds begin to form as the stem will be too long & skinny to support them.
Toss up a pic of your seedlings if you can, Ill let you know if I think they're stretched or not. Also, what lights are you using and how old & tall are they? Im using a 150w HPS thats 10 inches from the seedlings, so that makes a difference too. At this early of an age, the plants should be producing more leaves than stem, they will start to really shoot up after about 3 weeks.
KB
atxbudgrower
Active Member
yea they around 3-5 inches tall and they broke through the 4th of this months ill take and post pics when i get off work later on tonite they do look kinda stretched out how would i go about fixing this problem???