Auto flower topped vs not topped

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
So LST doesn't increase bud sites?

No, By its very definition. You see LST only induces flowering at nodes already present. (orange)

1639216739624.png

Topping DOULBES the amount of branches a single plant has every time you top it. (Labeled at every topping site.)

1639216827072.png

Many strains only produce a main stem with very few branches. as discussed here

Some Single cola strains would and could produce more if topped. Done correctly you could SOG (Sea of Green) the strains to get a higher yield in a smaller space.
1639217060034.png

Single plant SOG (Sea of Green) topping becomes VERY effective and more efficient use of space.
1639217157262.png

IMHO ~ Pr0f
 

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
No, By its very definition. You see LST only induces flowering at nodes already present. (orange)
View attachment 5044493

Topping DOULBES the amount of branches a single plant has every time you top it. (Labeled at every topping site.)
View attachment 5044494

Many strains only produce a main stem with very few branches. as discussed here

Some Single cola strains would and could produce more if topped. Done correctly you could SOG (Sea of Green) the strains to get a higher yield in a smaller space.
View attachment 5044495

Single plant SOG (Sea of Green) topping becomes VERY effective and more efficient use of space.
View attachment 5044496

IMHO ~ Pr0f
So what's the point of LST then?
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
So what's the point of LST then?
LST is designed to give the lower branches access to more light. and to allow the lower nodes to be given a signal to grow UP towards the light.
This means ALL nodes Become TOP Colas.... it should be renamed to (Every Node a Cola)

LST allows more light to hit the entire plant improving yield. and using space more efficiently.

a Spiral LST is what we used back in the day for SOG as its Super efficient use of space.

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1639218454102.png
 

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
Lets be precise. LST encourages Vertical Growth along a horizontal main stem. Therefore increasing the likelihood of flowering area.

It also allows you to bring lights Closer to the plants without burning them.
My original statement stands correct. LST can give you results equal to topping. Done correctly it does, not "ya depends".
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Lets be precise. LST encourages Vertical Growth along a horizontal main stem. Therefore increasing the likelihood of flowering area.

It also allows you to bring lights Closer to the plants without burning them.

Theres also an effect called shade avoidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_avoidance#:~:text=Shade avoidance is a set,and altered partitioning of resources.&text=As planting densities increase so,red light in the canopy.

When a plant leaf is shielded from IR/far red light the plant assumes it is in shade. This causes the plant to stretch. and it will avoid growing fruit/flowers in these shaded areas.

I have a really good article on it in one of my bookmarks. if you want to read it PM me (im too lazy to find it lol)
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
My original statement stands correct. LST can give you results equal to topping. Done correctly it does, not "ya depends".
No your original statement is still slightly wrong. "equal to toppping" is nothing anyone said or would agree to.

Its a method of using space/light/nutrients more efficiently. Topping is a whole different beast.
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Lets be precise.
it's the hormones, if you two are gonna argue, then get it right.
How does light affect cytokinins?
Light is one of the most important environmental signals for plants, modulating a broad spectrum of developmental processes. ... Light stimulates an increase in endogenous cytokinin levels (Mizuno et al., 1971; Qamaruddin and Tillberg, 1989; Kraepiel et al., 1994; Zubo et al., 2008).
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Phytochromes and Shade-avoidance Responses in Plants


Plants compete with neighboring vegetation for limited resources. In competition for light, plants adjust their architecture to bring the leaves higher in the vegetation where more light is available than in the lower strata. These architectural responses include accelerated elongation of the hypocotyl, internodes and petioles, upward leaf movement (hyponasty), and reduced shoot branching and are collectively referred to as the shade avoidance syndrome.

The article i was referring to.. and theres no argument...My only intent was because people were going to read it, i didn't want to make blanket statements .. as in "So LST increases bud sites. Got it.' which if someone reads that will just glance over the rest.
 
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pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
it's the hormones, if you two are gonna argue, then get it right.
How does light affect cytokinins?
Light is one of the most important environmental signals for plants, modulating a broad spectrum of developmental processes. ... Light stimulates an increase in endogenous cytokinin levels (Mizuno et al., 1971; Qamaruddin and Tillberg, 1989; Kraepiel et al., 1994; Zubo et al., 2008).
I already know about the affects of light on plants, I am THE OG of PAR and PUR growing using spectrum targeting.. see my thread in http://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/358190-led-without-leds-my-first.html
 

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
No your original statement is still slightly wrong. "equal to toppping" is nothing anyone said or would agree to.

Its a method of using space/light/nutrients more efficiently. Topping is a whole different beast.
What's the difference between topping creating more main colas and LST creating more main colas?
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
phytochromes are more "structural" signals than cytokinin.

Shade avoidance: phytochrome signaling and other aboveground neighbor detection cues
phytochromes don't really signal the plant, they produce the phytohormones that control the plants photomorphogenesis.

Phytochromes are the most important sensors in plants, belonging to a gene family of photoreceptors.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2018.01037/full
they are the "sensor" but they are not the 'signaling hormone' that promotes the photomorphogenesis, the phytohormones (cytokinin) does that.
 

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
What's the difference between topping creating more main colas and LST creating more main colas?

So LST doesent Create more nodes. Topping Doubles the nodes available, every time you top.

For the sake of argument lets assume the following picture is your LST plant. Agreed?
for each node you get one top cola. BUT they are all along ONE single mainstem.

1639222064656.png

Topping Doubles the Main Stem.
This allows you to LST 4, 8, 16, Mainstem branches.
1639222433120.png

Which look like this when done properly.




Think of an umbrella...

1639222675065.png
 
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pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
phytochromes don't really signal the plant, they produce the phytohormones that control the plants photomorphogenesis.

Phytochromes are the most important sensors in plants, belonging to a gene family of photoreceptors.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2018.01037/full
they are the "sensor" but they are not the 'signaling hormone' that promotes the photomorphogenesis, the phytohormones (cytokinin) does that.
Yes, you're just reposting what ive already posted.
The point i am trying to make is that the photochrome system is the main mechanism in which plants receive a signal to avoid darkness. they do so by being photo receptors for IR light which are in effect the plants "light switch". And are in turn responsible for the overall shape and structure of the plant when exposed to darkness or shade. This is the same system that responds to the seasons, and light schedule. This mechanism comes BEFORE any hormone system. When the sun converts the chromoprotein into the active Pfr it triggers plant Growth.

Plants use the photochrome system to check for photoperiodism by measuring the ratio of Pfr/Pr ratio when it senses light at dawn.

1639223237549.png
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Yes, you're just reposting what ive already posted.
The point i am trying to make is that the photochrome system is the main mechanism in which plants receive a signal to avoid darkness. they do so by being photo receptors for IR light which are in effect the plants "light switch". And are in turn responsible for the overall shape and structure of the plant when exposed to darkness or shade. This is the same system that responds to the seasons, and light schedule. This mechanism comes BEFORE any hormone system. When the sun converts the chromoprotein into the active Pfr it triggers plant Growth.

Plants use the photochrome system to check for photoperiodism by measuring the ratio of Pfr/Pr ratio when it senses light at dawn.

View attachment 5044516
No im not reposting what you did...i had to come in here and nix the bro science with real science...ur playing catch up to me.
 
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