• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Auto flower topped vs not topped

pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
So LST doesn't increase bud sites?
Click to expand...

No, By its very definition. You see LST only induces flowering at nodes already present. (orange)
1639216739624.png

Topping DOULBES the amount of branches a single plant has every time you top it. (Labeled at every topping site.)
1639216827072.png

Many strains only produce a main stem with very few branches. as discussed here

What is the best single cola plant?

I'm planning a grow in 1.5 gallon 7x9" trash cans. I can fit 3 rows of 6 in my 4x4x7. I'm looking for great quality and very limited branching plants. Strain and pictures would help greatly. +rep for my favorite.
www.rollitup.org

Some Single cola strains would and could produce more if topped. Done correctly you could SOG (Sea of Green) the strains to get a higher yield in a smaller space.
1639217060034.png

Single plant SOG (Sea of Green) topping becomes VERY effective and more efficient use of space.
1639217157262.png

IMHO ~ Pr0f
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
No, By its very definition. You see LST only induces flowering at nodes already present. (orange)
View attachment 5044493

Topping DOULBES the amount of branches a single plant has every time you top it. (Labeled at every topping site.)
View attachment 5044494

Many strains only produce a main stem with very few branches. as discussed here

What is the best single cola plant?

I'm planning a grow in 1.5 gallon 7x9" trash cans. I can fit 3 rows of 6 in my 4x4x7. I'm looking for great quality and very limited branching plants. Strain and pictures would help greatly. +rep for my favorite.
www.rollitup.org

Some Single cola strains would and could produce more if topped. Done correctly you could SOG (Sea of Green) the strains to get a higher yield in a smaller space.
View attachment 5044495

Single plant SOG (Sea of Green) topping becomes VERY effective and more efficient use of space.
View attachment 5044496

IMHO ~ Pr0f
Click to expand...
So what's the point of LST then?
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
So what's the point of LST then?
Click to expand...
LST is designed to give the lower branches access to more light. and to allow the lower nodes to be given a signal to grow UP towards the light.
This means ALL nodes Become TOP Colas.... it should be renamed to (Every Node a Cola)

LST allows more light to hit the entire plant improving yield. and using space more efficiently.

a Spiral LST is what we used back in the day for SOG as its Super efficient use of space.

1639218284027.png

1639218454102.png
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
Lets be precise. LST encourages Vertical Growth along a horizontal main stem. Therefore increasing the likelihood of flowering area.

It also allows you to bring lights Closer to the plants without burning them.
Click to expand...
My original statement stands correct. LST can give you results equal to topping. Done correctly it does, not "ya depends".
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
Lets be precise. LST encourages Vertical Growth along a horizontal main stem. Therefore increasing the likelihood of flowering area.

It also allows you to bring lights Closer to the plants without burning them.
Click to expand...

Theres also an effect called shade avoidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade_avoidance#:~:text=Shade avoidance is a set,and altered partitioning of resources.&text=As planting densities increase so,red light in the canopy.

When a plant leaf is shielded from IR/far red light the plant assumes it is in shade. This causes the plant to stretch. and it will avoid growing fruit/flowers in these shaded areas.

I have a really good article on it in one of my bookmarks. if you want to read it PM me (im too lazy to find it lol)
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
My original statement stands correct. LST can give you results equal to topping. Done correctly it does, not "ya depends".
Click to expand...
No your original statement is still slightly wrong. "equal to toppping" is nothing anyone said or would agree to.

Its a method of using space/light/nutrients more efficiently. Topping is a whole different beast.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
Lets be precise.
Click to expand...
it's the hormones, if you two are gonna argue, then get it right.
How does light affect cytokinins?
Light is one of the most important environmental signals for plants, modulating a broad spectrum of developmental processes. ... Light stimulates an increase in endogenous cytokinin levels (Mizuno et al., 1971; Qamaruddin and Tillberg, 1989; Kraepiel et al., 1994; Zubo et al., 2008).
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Phytochromes and Shade-avoidance Responses in Plants


Plants compete with neighboring vegetation for limited resources. In competition for light, plants adjust their architecture to bring the leaves higher in the vegetation where more light is available than in the lower strata. These architectural responses include accelerated elongation of the hypocotyl, internodes and petioles, upward leaf movement (hyponasty), and reduced shoot branching and are collectively referred to as the shade avoidance syndrome.

The article i was referring to.. and theres no argument...My only intent was because people were going to read it, i didn't want to make blanket statements .. as in "So LST increases bud sites. Got it.' which if someone reads that will just glance over the rest.
 
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pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
it's the hormones, if you two are gonna argue, then get it right.
How does light affect cytokinins?
Light is one of the most important environmental signals for plants, modulating a broad spectrum of developmental processes. ... Light stimulates an increase in endogenous cytokinin levels (Mizuno et al., 1971; Qamaruddin and Tillberg, 1989; Kraepiel et al., 1994; Zubo et al., 2008).
Click to expand...
I already know about the affects of light on plants, I am THE OG of PAR and PUR growing using spectrum targeting.. see my thread in http://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/358190-led-without-leds-my-first.html
academic.oup.com

Blue light dose–responses of leaf photosynthesis, morphology, and chemical composition of Cucumis sativus grown under different combinations of red and blue light

Abstract. The blue part of the light spectrum has been associated with leaf characteristics which also develop under high irradiances. In this study blue l
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
No your original statement is still slightly wrong. "equal to toppping" is nothing anyone said or would agree to.

Its a method of using space/light/nutrients more efficiently. Topping is a whole different beast.
Click to expand...
What's the difference between topping creating more main colas and LST creating more main colas?
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
phytochromes are more "structural" signals than cytokinin.

Shade avoidance: phytochrome signaling and other aboveground neighbor detection cues
academic.oup.com

Shade avoidance: phytochrome signalling and other aboveground neighbour detection cues

Abstract. Plants compete with neighbouring vegetation for limited resources. In competition for light, plants adjust their architecture to bring the leaves
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com
Click to expand...
phytochromes don't really signal the plant, they produce the phytohormones that control the plants photomorphogenesis.

Phytochromes are the most important sensors in plants, belonging to a gene family of photoreceptors.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2018.01037/full
they are the "sensor" but they are not the 'signaling hormone' that promotes the photomorphogenesis, the phytohormones (cytokinin) does that.
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
What's the difference between topping creating more main colas and LST creating more main colas?
Click to expand...

So LST doesent Create more nodes. Topping Doubles the nodes available, every time you top.

For the sake of argument lets assume the following picture is your LST plant. Agreed?
for each node you get one top cola. BUT they are all along ONE single mainstem.

1639222064656.png

Topping Doubles the Main Stem.
This allows you to LST 4, 8, 16, Mainstem branches.
1639222433120.png

Which look like this when done properly.




Think of an umbrella...

1639222675065.png
 
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pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
phytochromes don't really signal the plant, they produce the phytohormones that control the plants photomorphogenesis.

Phytochromes are the most important sensors in plants, belonging to a gene family of photoreceptors.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2018.01037/full
they are the "sensor" but they are not the 'signaling hormone' that promotes the photomorphogenesis, the phytohormones (cytokinin) does that.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're just reposting what ive already posted.
The point i am trying to make is that the photochrome system is the main mechanism in which plants receive a signal to avoid darkness. they do so by being photo receptors for IR light which are in effect the plants "light switch". And are in turn responsible for the overall shape and structure of the plant when exposed to darkness or shade. This is the same system that responds to the seasons, and light schedule. This mechanism comes BEFORE any hormone system. When the sun converts the chromoprotein into the active Pfr it triggers plant Growth.

Plants use the photochrome system to check for photoperiodism by measuring the ratio of Pfr/Pr ratio when it senses light at dawn.

1639223237549.png
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
pr0fesseur said:
Yes, you're just reposting what ive already posted.
The point i am trying to make is that the photochrome system is the main mechanism in which plants receive a signal to avoid darkness. they do so by being photo receptors for IR light which are in effect the plants "light switch". And are in turn responsible for the overall shape and structure of the plant when exposed to darkness or shade. This is the same system that responds to the seasons, and light schedule. This mechanism comes BEFORE any hormone system. When the sun converts the chromoprotein into the active Pfr it triggers plant Growth.

Plants use the photochrome system to check for photoperiodism by measuring the ratio of Pfr/Pr ratio when it senses light at dawn.

View attachment 5044516
Click to expand...
No im not reposting what you did...i had to come in here and nix the bro science with real science...ur playing catch up to me.
 
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