Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
I'm unable to follow your logic, sorry. Maybe it's a language barrier or you are just trying too hard but I feel like you didn't understand what I was getting at and I don't understand where you are coming from with some of the stuff you bring up. So now im just lost! Thanks anyway for trying. I'll be doing my own research on my subjects of interest going forward.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
I do not understand, at which part you feel I left you with "gaps"...
You asked something,that can't be answered with just "yes" or "no "..Blacks'-Whites' or just 0s'-1s' ..
(..I come from deep, far,outer space,if you,really,want to understand from where I come from....
Stardust Sailor.......See ?
... )

Once more ..
Because I believe, that we both didn't, just lost our time ...

How I can be at your service, once more ?
Try ,to make it ,more simple to me ....
I'll try to be simple in my answers ,as well...
Always like to help in researches...

I think we'll reach to results,this time...

Com'on..
Hit me...
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
How you can tune (the power,ok ? )
.....According to spectrum ?

Make them all ( the wls ) ,more powerful ?
That is what you're suggesting,if I understood correctly ?
Ok...
You'll notice a difference in yield...
Rather in logical analogy..
Mening,really simply put:
For every 100 gr increase of yield ,one has to illuminate with, say 2 times the amount of power..
At 1 watt led power =100 gr (fantastic random values,ok ? )
2 Watt= 200 gr
4 Watt =300 gr
8 Watt= 400 gr...

So plants ,do increase yields ,yes ,with power increasements-(all the spectrum of wls,all of it )
But not in the most efficient way....
You can use lower power for longer time..

Or you mean ? .....
Tuning along with power increase ?
Or yes,finely,tune your light,to trick the plant,in certain ways ,that will have as a result ,increased yield...
How one can do exactly that with mj,is yet to be discovered..
And ,it is not going to be soooo simple,to employ...

Yes I trust that ,probably the "secret" ,lies somewhere at "middles"...
And at many other factors concerning spectrum distirbution...

We haven't mention "early morning" & "late noon" effects ,at all....
Also affecting flowering,drastically......

What,else... ?
 

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
Dear Tenthirty:

Specify,please (I really,do begin to like this word...) what do you mean by referring to "Waveform" and to what when referring to "spectrum"....
...
Spectrum - Spectra
is the graphical representation of how,-in what wave form - the power of light,is 'dispersed' relatively to every nm.....
Anyway...
Even on the simplest level this is not easy for me to explain in understandable english.
I am looking at this from a physics/energy management, density point of view and how us humans deal with harnessing the known spectrum of energy and drawing some analogies.

It's going to take me a few days to write something up and I'll be posting it in my "home made led" thread on a different site. If you want to see it I'll pm you the link.

Peace my brother
 

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
I found a source for the heatsinks. The same I already have a 500mm piece is 42€ shipped for 1m, so I will have a spare 500mm heatsink. Another option would be a 100mm wide one, 1 meter is 65€. Those would allow for a nicer, more evenly spaced LED pattern:



This time everything is measured, scale for the sketch is 1:2. tenthirty, cannot find the XM-L PCB sizes from Rapid, coould you measure one? I assumed 20mm diameter...

I think it's a good rule of thumb to have about 2 sq cm per watt; with the cheaper heatsink option would be more than 4 sq cm per watt, while with the nicer, 100mm wide heatsink this would be more than 7sq cm per watt, maybe overkill. ah, decisions, decisions...

BTW I like sativa leaning hybrids, right now two fem. seedlings, 1 Somango, 1 Amnesia Haze. Of course I will be making a journal!

I expect to "finish" the chamber this Friday, will post pics. Walls already lined with reflective mylar sheet, axial extractor fan. Having trouble keeping proper veg RH levels, will tinker with a dimmer w/ the fan and mist maker placement today.
repuk, pick your heat sink first and use drill and tap not epoxy. Post the specs of the heatsink to my thread and I'll do all the calcs for you and give you my 2 pence.

I'll measure the XM-L's tonight, but they fit the same pattern as the XP-E's.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Even on the simplest level this is not easy for me to explain in understandable english.
I am looking at this from a physics/energy management, density point of view and how us humans deal with harnessing the known spectrum of energy and drawing some analogies.

It's going to take me a few days to write something up and I'll be posting it in my "home made led" thread on a different site. If you want to see it I'll pm you the link.

Peace my brother

I think ,I'm beginning to understand what you want to say....
If it's that ,what I'm thinking of ,this is going to be the "Million $ question",you're asking....
Let me try ..
Give a shot...


We'll take two different wavelengths ,ok ?
Two reds....

One ray of red at 600 nm and one at the visual limit of 700 nm ...

Forget humans...
Plants,only...

What do the "see" ?

Ray of 600 : ( Don't care about this: 600/120=5 ...)
So...At the ray of light ,every second ,5 photons,'fly' across the beam....
Light Flux....
(In reality,you know that 5umol/sec is ..more than trillions...1 umol=602.214.179.000.000.000 photons..Give or take few...)
So the power of that ray is 5 umol/sec ( 1 Watt red at 600 nm )

At ray red 700 nm ( 700/120 )=5.83 umol /sec ..

So..One, can think ,in human terms....
"Oh,more power there,ain't so ? "
....
Ok....


The two rays,reachin' the leaves of plant ,
First have to "penetrate" through physical structure of leaves....

Red 600 nm gets absorbed by leaf matierial (water,ect) -10%
Red 700 gets -15 % .....


Going deeper....

Light reaches at last photosynthetic pigments...

red 600 is captured at 95% (-5%)
red 700 at 90 %(-10%) ....

(random values,always....ok ? )



Now ,..
.From the red 600 ,50% is harvested and used in P (10% by ChA ,30% by ChB & say 10%,from anthocyanins....)
50%(-50%) becomes heat....


Red 700 is harvested used 30% for P(25 % from ChA ,5 % from ChB ),10% captured by phytochrome ,
the rest 60 %(-60%) .. ends up as heat....


Which ray is more powerful,the human, said ?
In what way ?
Maybe,we should be asking which wls are more productive....

And the answer isn't going to be so simple,probably......

Tip: in nature ,strong doses of red generally ,even on Equatorial areas,last not for long...

red=top leaves ,more rapid engagement of light,for P from plant ,but no so efficient ?

Afterall,doesn't have to be that way-in plants terms-...
In that particular area of light -reds- ,already excist a lot of photons...

Why bother evolving efficient,light harvesting and any other photon-electron mechanisms there ?
For using the, yes,rich on photons area, just for a few hours per day ?


Here we are talking ,for photon "harvesting " speed .(The quickest the response to light=the more photons harvested)
And Not for direct quantum "harvesting"
per leaf ( total number of photons harvested) and /or their utilising ability ....
If we wanted to be efficient,firstplace ...Right ?.
Transform quickly
, as many as possible,photons to electrons...
Not even , necessarily, "use efficiently" for P, as many of those electrons harvested (ex-photons)...

No,no,no...
.....
Real Efficiency by numbers,has to be in the wls range of light ,
that are always present ,during daytime....Or most of it....

That's efficient,over time...(per time unit of radiation)
Meaning....

Hold on....

What about almost equally -almost-all of it....?
Meaning ....
White light..
But...
What one can do,also is force the plant ,to gather energy ,from certain short ranged ,but great in power "points"
(from i.e . actinic peaks =from actinic leds)..

Although....
That,for sure does not seem efficient or even healthy,at all...

Smells " stress ",from far away....

Very-very-complex matter....
Which,part of light is used more efficiently...
....
And..Hold on,tighter..
All,that means,put simply...
That umole /sec ,doesn't really say sh!t ,other than number of photons per sec..
So nobody ,can guarantee that a high flux value,will have bigger yields..
Depends...
....
" And the green-lady,smilled and horny said :...
Show me your colors,darling....."

....

Is anybody still ,inside the "nuthouse",or I'm just taliking to the pillow-covered walls ?
There is not even one ,to understand,a bit of my words ?
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
what if you only use 2700k and 6500k leds and in a ration of 2:1 w:c
Meaning..
Starting from scratch....
That is the basis ( I have serious reasons ,to consider so..) of plant illumination..
Of course,you can...
Afterall ,for many years now,has been, the suggested & proven to work ,ratio ,for generally illuminating plant canopies...

2 hps : 1 mh
2 Warm cfls : 1 Cool cfl
And ,as 'naturally':2700k and 6500k leds and in a ratio of 2:1 w:c .

White Light Mix #1 .

Basis of all others.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
when wiring up the drivers can i put two drivers together and make them run off of one outlet cord
Better ask Guod ,about that one..
Hard Guess ?
Not as simple,as it sounds...
Wire the drivers how ?
Series ? Parallel ?
For x2 the current ,or for x2 the led_number_driving_ability ( v output )?

Dunno for sure,anyway....
 

tenthirty

Well-Known Member
What one can do,also is force the plant ,to gather energy ,from certain short ranged ,but great in power "points"
(from i.e . actinic peaks =from actinic leds)..

Although....
That,for sure does not seem efficient or even healthy,at all...

Smells " stress ",from far away....

Very-very-complex matter....
Which,part of light is used more efficiently...
You're on the right trail....."stress, wasted energy" (Think snow blind as well)

Like I said, it's going to take me a while to Carl Sagan-ize the concept so it is a simple easy to read hypothesis/proof.
 

thehole

New Member
Can we please give these LED folks their own section? Just like the cabinet growers these folks need their own area to play in.
 

repuk

Member
when wiring up the drivers can i put two drivers together and make them run off of one outlet cord
music64, yes, yo should wire the AC wires in parallel (join neutral with neutral and live with live). Beware You cannot join the wires going to the LEDs!!!

tenthirty, drilling and tapping? ouch... I thought on using thermal glue...
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Pic update.

Runt tent WINNING

Pic #1 Bubbler Keep in mind these 2 (there is now a 3rd in between that I moved back from hpa 2 days ago just to see if it would take off) were the runts. It's not the grow method, it's the spectral balance

Pics 2 & 5 hpa These could be lagging due to thin cover allowing fair amount of light penetration into root chamber. 2 days ago I covered the lid with HD Al Foil to eliminate light penetrating into the root chamber


Pics # 3 & 4 F & D are doing better since adding the Coral Wave. Bit of leaf burn probably due to DM LL/S being too old. Yeah I was a sucker, so I plan using the ~$60 worth of this stuff.

I added side skirts to the T5 fixture to better concentrate the light, though with the curved reflectors there is little scatter



 

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PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I was referring to the odd choice of SX's UN, perhaps being cosmic. Most UNs have a hidden meaning. Mine is a product called Pet Flora. Although it is sold for pets, it is human grade, and essential to maintaining intestinal flora balance (pet or human). The GI tract makes up >80% of the immune system, integral to optimal health; also excellent for soil. I take it daily

Here's a pic of the undergrowth of the Runts. ~ 3xs that of my other plants
 

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