abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
These are facts in the sense that that is what the "holy books" claim.
Are there ANY Christians on RIU?
- Thread starter GanjaGod420000
- Start date
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
But that right there perfectly captures the frustration that some feel when perusing holy texts ... circularity. From a rationalist's perspective, there is no good in believing in a book because the book certifies its own truthfulness. So for most Christians (or other Abrahamic believers) there must be something more, external to text, that supports the belief. For some, it is a personal mystical experience. For others, it's accession to social/cultural pressure, simply having gone to church/mosque/etc. all of one's life and being comfy with it. For others yet ... other yet. Bottom line ... it is invariably something that isn't communicable to a hypothetical rationalist's satisfaction. When I see the word "fact" I assume and ultimately require the process by which it was verified. In its way it is a stricter term than "truth".
Impasse. cn
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
I agree thoroughly. I think one of my first exposures to it was a bumper sticker meme that actually hit me pretty hard. "God exists because the book says so, the book can't be false because God wrote it."
jessy koons
New Member
Believe in Me and only believe in Me
Believe in me and abandon all hope in false books. By focusing only on me, there will be no time in your life to look elsewhere at false gods. I am the only one to give hope and love in equal measure, all other measurements of hope and love are false ratios. Beware of these false ratios for they are false. Bicarbonate of Soda is a true leavening, do not use false leavening when preparing breads that call for leavening. When preparing unleavened bread use only false leavening as it is mush less expensive then using unleavening that has been blessed by me for a small fee.
I have been begot by my Mother and by my Father and by No one else. Any who claim to begot me are false and speak falsely of begetting.
In my six week course you can learn to write in confusing and inconsistent text just like the Bible and other long books do. Use made up words and string them together in incomplete sentences just like your favorite prophets. If you write to me in the next 24 hours I will personally draw, in excruciating detail, and then burn in a hellish fire, your personal life chart at no extra charge to you or anyone else. If you order today I will also include pictures of me taking a nice warm bath in a fancy robe.
Why wait? I've got envelopes to put stuff in and a moist sponge, so don't delay. If you order today, soon you can be writing sentences like this. "Verily, none can be without me who are not with me in truth, and dare thee to not be without." Pretty impressive stuff for sure. If I can write these important and confusing sentences then you can too. Order today and I'll stuff some things in an envelope by tomorrow and mail it in the afternoon so you can receive it in 4-6 weeks. Please speak loudly when ordering.
Believe in me and abandon all hope in false books. By focusing only on me, there will be no time in your life to look elsewhere at false gods. I am the only one to give hope and love in equal measure, all other measurements of hope and love are false ratios. Beware of these false ratios for they are false. Bicarbonate of Soda is a true leavening, do not use false leavening when preparing breads that call for leavening. When preparing unleavened bread use only false leavening as it is mush less expensive then using unleavening that has been blessed by me for a small fee.
I have been begot by my Mother and by my Father and by No one else. Any who claim to begot me are false and speak falsely of begetting.
In my six week course you can learn to write in confusing and inconsistent text just like the Bible and other long books do. Use made up words and string them together in incomplete sentences just like your favorite prophets. If you write to me in the next 24 hours I will personally draw, in excruciating detail, and then burn in a hellish fire, your personal life chart at no extra charge to you or anyone else. If you order today I will also include pictures of me taking a nice warm bath in a fancy robe.
Why wait? I've got envelopes to put stuff in and a moist sponge, so don't delay. If you order today, soon you can be writing sentences like this. "Verily, none can be without me who are not with me in truth, and dare thee to not be without." Pretty impressive stuff for sure. If I can write these important and confusing sentences then you can too. Order today and I'll stuff some things in an envelope by tomorrow and mail it in the afternoon so you can receive it in 4-6 weeks. Please speak loudly when ordering.
Nitegazer
Well-Known Member
There are actually a couple reasons for this circularity. I think a lot of stress comes from not differentiating them.
* Some concepts are inherently circular/self-contradictory (eg. doing/not-doing in Buddhism, meaninglessness/responsibility in Existentialism) this kind of contradiction invites thought and does not reflect negatively on the faith in question.
* Existence over a great time span (eg. goat sacrifice in Judaism). Things change, particularly over millennia, and religious adherents adjust their 'interpretation' if not the text itself (like the US Constitution). Most sensible people recognize that no text over 1,000 years can hold all of its historic relevence.
* Attempts to bring several religious factions together (eg. Paul's writings in the New Testament). It's important to note that the 'founders' of the major religions did very little of the writing. In most faiths, the majority of writing takes place many years after the initial 'prophet' it dead.
* Corruption of the faith as it is institutionalized-- tough call here. To some extent, this is the creation of the Catechism for Roman Catholicism, the Talmud in Judaism and the Sharia in Islam. All you can do is stick with the earliest text of the movement, before it was institutionalized. If you want rules, read the later works; if you want wisdom, read the earlier (along with good translational notes).
If you're interested in some good scholarly material on wisdom literature, I'd be happy to post some.
carl.burnette
Well-Known Member
Born again hard baby... I like the open minded i get when i hit the pipe then the Word. Very eye opening. Pastor father isnt impressed, but he likes the idea that I read God's Word daily. Weed has opened my heart up to the Lord in ways that 35 years of attending church never did. Its all about personal relationship with the Lord. Not what you wear, where you worship ect ect. Love your God with all your heart, love your neighbour more than yourself. The rest is window dressing.
BongTokinAlcoholic420
Well-Known Member
I know God is real because I am alive.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Who created God?
jessy koons
New Member
I did, sorry
DreamTime
Member
And you think a sorry will suffice?
jessy koons
New Member
Sadly, sorry isn't enough, I know. As a way to mitigate my foolishness I have been working with confused Catholic school girls for the last few weeks and I will continue providing them justice, the old fashioned way, until someone catches me. I have thrown 7 Hail Mary's and I drank 5 Our Fathers to try to make amends for my mistake. I know that this isn't enough but I am trying.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Universal Life Church? That's the one you do online so you can marry your buddy and his wife on the cheap, right? My friend did that at one point.
Personally I don't have a problem with Christian beliefs, in fact the beliefs have a lot of merit in and of themselves. The problem is [begin massive prejudiced generalization] that many christains spend more time shoving their belief system down your throat that practicing it themselves. Furthermore, they thing that they have the right to decide what belief system everyone else should have, and are intolerant of any beliefs which are contrary to or threaten their own set of beliefs [end massive prejudiced generalization].
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
My grandma knows God isn't real because she is dead.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
^ atheist?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Absurdist.^ atheist?
Doer
Well-Known Member
Isn't this a perfect time to mention Scientology?
BTW, just so we understand each other...you mean the cloying religious, force fed, hell and damnation sort?
Not the, that's amazing and no way can I truely describe it, sort, right?
The sort of God an atheist doubts has a pretty clear definition.
BTW, just so we understand each other...you mean the cloying religious, force fed, hell and damnation sort?
Not the, that's amazing and no way can I truely describe it, sort, right?
The sort of God an atheist doubts has a pretty clear definition.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Unless it's Suzanne Somers, then it's kind of ok.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...and yet we're asked to describe that God - sometimes we can't. Does that rend discussion futile? I don't see why it would. Some people are flighty and some people are in danger of painting everything around them stark white.
Eggshell.
Claude Bawls
Active Member
Why should an RIU member or any cannabis user or afficianado be automatically condemned to Hell? God gave us cannabis, it is his noble herb. Too say that any Christian that uses cannabis is damned, is to say that there is an inherrant evil in the use of the herb ala Harry Anslinger. I have very personal Christian beliefs, I do not attempt to proslatize any other person to my faith. I am assuming you are not involved with a God of your understanding and that is your perogative. But since that is true, how can you claim anyone else is certainly going to a place that in the philosophy of most posters here does not even exist?Fairly certain that if you're a Christian, AND you're on RIU, you're going to hell. . . . . . if you believe in Christianity. .... . . interesting. I've got no hate for you though. Just don't push it on me. Keep it green. Keep it happy.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Isn't this a perfect time to mention Scientology?
BTW, just so we understand each other...you mean the cloying religious, force fed, hell and damnation sort?
Not the, that's amazing and no way can I truely describe it, sort, right?
The sort of God an atheist doubts has a pretty clear definition.
The assertion that was made > Atheist have no itch but denial.
My point was, there is nothing about atheism which necessarily prevents someone from believing in higher states of consciousnesses, or a collective will, or magic aliens. Atheists reject the conclusion of a supernatural deity. Not all atheists reject theism out of logic or doubt. If you add skeptic as an attribute, then I agree with the premise, but not the conclusion of denial. Doubt is different than denial, and a skeptics rejection of a conclusion usually comes after examination of evidence. Most skeptics have a real itch for discovery.