Budget Buds
Well-Known Member
I've selfed seeds with no issues, but one time I ended up with this hideous fucking chud of a plant...... it was bad, I put it out of it misery by giving it to my neighbor lol
Are the more expensive seeds worth it?
- Thread starter Deantrfc
- Start date
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Tons of people self seeds with no issues. I’m not suggesting it immediately shows problems. I just dont like seeing soooo much of the industry leaning towards selfed seeds and fem seeds. Every new cross alters the gene pool in some way.
Budget Buds
Well-Known Member
Yeah I did it for a long time, I have amassed quite the seed vault as a result, but recently I've been doing tissue culture. I really dig that, it took a minute to get used to it and it took a little bit of cash to invest but well worth it.... you just have to plan a few months ahead in you're room
Looks great. What grow medium you using?
Gentlemencorpse
Well-Known Member
I actually like a lot of the American genetics I've tried, but seriously, the people disparaging the European gear, especially the Dutch stuff, have no idea what they are talking about. Love me some Sensi Seeds Silver haze. And I've got a Dinafem Critical + 2.0 in the tent right now that I can't wait to try. She's bigger and smells better then any other plant in there.
I do have to say I prefer the American seedbanks though, especially JBC. Ordering seeds from Europe was always such a hassle for me. Also, my Seedsman NL Auto that looks like she'll run 125 days + would like to tell you us Americans didn't exactly corner the market on misleading flowering times.
To answer OPs actual questions though, sometimes expensive seeds are worth it, but it's inherently subjective. If you really want a particular strain and it's really rare, your gonna pay a premium. And that may be worth it to you. But expensive seeds aren't inherently any easier to grow or guaranteed to yield more or grow better. As was mentioned elsewhere, it's all about supply and demand. Plenty of cheaper seeds grow great weed. Plenty don't. Same goes for the expensive ones.
ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of wisdom in this thread. I have a few other things to note that might help someone decide if its worth spending $200 for an 'elite' pack of seeds. The question of whether more expensive seeds are worth it, varies with who is answering the question. Let me explain.
As has been mentioned, most of what is hype and the hottest strains of the moment, is just good marketing. A lot of it is untested (or barely tested) F1s. (Which, honestly sometimes get a bad rap. Some of the most popular and best strains of the last 2 decades came from bagseed from accidental crosses which were F1s.) There is nothing wrong with them, there is just going to be a lot of genetic variation in the offspring, so someone who is growing out a pack (or few) would have a lot of different types of plants in their garden. This is desirable to some people who are pheno hunting, and want a wide variety to choose the exact offspring they are looking for. For the growers that are going after the current market hype, it makes sense to be ahead of the curve and have the latest hype phenos bc that is what is going to sell. And if you can find the next killer pheno you can make a lot of $.
But for someone who is growing their entire crop from seed there could be too much variation and you wind up with a lot of different height plants that all have varied nutrient needs, so the grow requires more attention. For someone that is just going to pop one or two seeds, this also means you might get a plant that is a 50% blend of each of it's parents, or you might get something that is totally leaning to one side or the other so its more of a gamble.
On the flip side, a really worked stable strain that is taken to at least F4 is going to have a lot less variation in the phenos. So if you pop those you pretty much know what you are going to get. Which again, might be undesirable to someone who wants to find something new, but definitely a better choice for a home grower that is only popping one or two beans at a time.
One other thing I want to bring up, is that a lot of people after popping a couple of seeds (or packs even), growing them once, and if they show any signs of herm, they toss em and then diss the breeder. Putting aside grower mistakes causing stress, there is a good chance (if the genetics are good) that if you clone those same plants and run them again, they won't herm. Sometimes plants need to climatize to their new environment. If the seeds were pollinated outdoors, they might need time to adjust to an indoor environment.
Also, while I like to grow short plants that I only veg a few weeks, you still have to grow the mom out to maturity so that you are taking mature clones. If you pop seeds and only veg for 3 weeks and flower them, they are going to be unpredictable. Those are some important things that I don't see mentioned too often that I think is important for people to consider. That is just my experience and anecdotal evidence I've learned from some of my old heads.
To be clear, some of the herms happening is definitely due to mutations and inbreeding the same genetic pool for too long. Or breeding with unstable genetics - which might be fine for someone chucking at home for personal use, but the problem as I see it is that too many people are then selling those seeds.
So are more expensive seeds worth it? I was gifted a pack of In House lemon lime punch fems and they are hands down one of my favorite strains I have grown. I popped 3 beans and found a keeper pheno that tastes like lime smarties (lime/citus/tart/sugar) that is killer. Would I pay $200 for the pack? Probably not tbh, but I have a nice stash of beans to choose from so I am not sure my answer is valid.
I think the one breeder I didn't see mentioned yet that I would consider for new growers is B.O.G. I have never read a bad grow journal of his stuff, and they are $100 a pack not $200. His strains are stable and are the basis for some of the most popular strains in the last 10 years (Sour Dubb & then GG4). I have some Sour Bubble going now that my friend worked to like F9 and then crossed with GDP took to F4. They veg slow as molasses but the smell on the stems is out of control. Almost ready to take cuts). Was just thinking earlier today I should probably order some of the original beans direct from BOG just so I have them.
As has been mentioned, most of what is hype and the hottest strains of the moment, is just good marketing. A lot of it is untested (or barely tested) F1s. (Which, honestly sometimes get a bad rap. Some of the most popular and best strains of the last 2 decades came from bagseed from accidental crosses which were F1s.) There is nothing wrong with them, there is just going to be a lot of genetic variation in the offspring, so someone who is growing out a pack (or few) would have a lot of different types of plants in their garden. This is desirable to some people who are pheno hunting, and want a wide variety to choose the exact offspring they are looking for. For the growers that are going after the current market hype, it makes sense to be ahead of the curve and have the latest hype phenos bc that is what is going to sell. And if you can find the next killer pheno you can make a lot of $.
But for someone who is growing their entire crop from seed there could be too much variation and you wind up with a lot of different height plants that all have varied nutrient needs, so the grow requires more attention. For someone that is just going to pop one or two seeds, this also means you might get a plant that is a 50% blend of each of it's parents, or you might get something that is totally leaning to one side or the other so its more of a gamble.
On the flip side, a really worked stable strain that is taken to at least F4 is going to have a lot less variation in the phenos. So if you pop those you pretty much know what you are going to get. Which again, might be undesirable to someone who wants to find something new, but definitely a better choice for a home grower that is only popping one or two beans at a time.
One other thing I want to bring up, is that a lot of people after popping a couple of seeds (or packs even), growing them once, and if they show any signs of herm, they toss em and then diss the breeder. Putting aside grower mistakes causing stress, there is a good chance (if the genetics are good) that if you clone those same plants and run them again, they won't herm. Sometimes plants need to climatize to their new environment. If the seeds were pollinated outdoors, they might need time to adjust to an indoor environment.
Also, while I like to grow short plants that I only veg a few weeks, you still have to grow the mom out to maturity so that you are taking mature clones. If you pop seeds and only veg for 3 weeks and flower them, they are going to be unpredictable. Those are some important things that I don't see mentioned too often that I think is important for people to consider. That is just my experience and anecdotal evidence I've learned from some of my old heads.
To be clear, some of the herms happening is definitely due to mutations and inbreeding the same genetic pool for too long. Or breeding with unstable genetics - which might be fine for someone chucking at home for personal use, but the problem as I see it is that too many people are then selling those seeds.
So are more expensive seeds worth it? I was gifted a pack of In House lemon lime punch fems and they are hands down one of my favorite strains I have grown. I popped 3 beans and found a keeper pheno that tastes like lime smarties (lime/citus/tart/sugar) that is killer. Would I pay $200 for the pack? Probably not tbh, but I have a nice stash of beans to choose from so I am not sure my answer is valid.
I think the one breeder I didn't see mentioned yet that I would consider for new growers is B.O.G. I have never read a bad grow journal of his stuff, and they are $100 a pack not $200. His strains are stable and are the basis for some of the most popular strains in the last 10 years (Sour Dubb & then GG4). I have some Sour Bubble going now that my friend worked to like F9 and then crossed with GDP took to F4. They veg slow as molasses but the smell on the stems is out of control. Almost ready to take cuts). Was just thinking earlier today I should probably order some of the original beans direct from BOG just so I have them.
Budget Buds
Well-Known Member
I'd second the bog seeds... bogglegum is the dope beat.... I cant seem to find his gear in any USA based banks....
ilovereggae
Well-Known Member
Check his IG pretty sure you can just email him direct to buy in the US.
And this is exactly why I joined this forum. I just love the knowledge being shared without any real disputes. Everyone just seems to respect that everyone has different views and ways of doing things. Thanks everyone for the information! This is my first time growing indoors so you're all way past me with the growing knowledge! I can smoke it but I'm yet to see if I can grow it!
CTGrown203
Well-Known Member
Running 2 BF dosi dos 33, did a 12 plant run of peyote cookies last summer, sure it’s good BUT doesn’t compare
JimmyNuggs
Well-Known Member
Dont pay more than a tenner for seeds, any more than that and you are paying for slick posters and giveaways instead of product.
And for those chumps that pay in excess of 50 for 'premiuim genetics': blollocks!
Do what you like but I figure if i lose the seed (and it happens!) How much can i afford to lose. And on seeds if lose any more than a tenner (uk £) i get pissed off.
And for those chumps that pay in excess of 50 for 'premiuim genetics': blollocks!
Do what you like but I figure if i lose the seed (and it happens!) How much can i afford to lose. And on seeds if lose any more than a tenner (uk £) i get pissed off.
KK26
Well-Known Member
I see.
Totally different but still produce weed.
The bigger one is nice with the other patchy and sickly as you say.
I have 2 going both the same pheno, they're doing well.
Nice smoke btw
conor c
Well-Known Member
I got loads of seed stockers gear8 pounds for 5 seeds.
BCN Critical XXL Auto Seeds | Grizzly Seed Bank | Seedstockers
BCN Critical XXL Auto Seeds, one of seedstockers heaviest yielding auto genetics. A cross of Kritical Bilbo X Critical Mass. Free seeds with every oreder!grizzly-cannabis-seeds.co.uk
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Applause, Applause!
On the note of answering the question: I say yes they are. Then again, I get most of my new exotic shit by clone.
DGD's Rozay or OGKB V2 Nothing in the Dutch line up can match that...
What about Wookies, Peanutbutter Wookies, Cherry Vortex, etc, etc, etc.
Hell's bell's - GG#4 alone, beats the shit out of EU nation breeds AND I don't give 2 shits if it was a mistake!
Barny's? Really? They've hit on some things over the years but, and I do mean BUT, those things today are not like the originals...
Smell Boats Rainbow SS OG
Riots Clockwork Orange
Canarado's Sundae Driver
Oh this Gelato pheno I have - It hits you on the exhale!
There are too many to list and many of them I don't have...But, those I paid up for? Have been worth the cost in the long run for everything I stuck my neck out for....
Remember at the beginning I mentioned DannyGreenDragon and his OGKB v2? The first way to get it was? Not just this or that plant from a bean but, hand picked by Danny clones that went for 2.5K each - they were sold out before they were ready to ship!
Who would pay that? Another breeder. Don't have to have a big name - yet.
I have a cross I took some time in stabilizing. GG#4 X Bruce Banner.... yet, I don't really like parting with some of my work..... I don't need fame or the $..... I just thought that might be nice for the BB to take some of the paranoid edge off the heavy hitting GG...It worked.
I got 2 pheno"s I've kept from that work. Only 1 old school friend of mine has them beside me.
Fire too! COMPLETE FIRE! If you like Indica's.. this shit will work over time on you.
Oh, you want a clone? Get out that wallet and expect to pay more then a 10 pack of cheap seeds too! You won't have to pheno hunt!
I'm so tired of all the old school shit.. Give me the new stuff........Gotta try it! OR, make it myself!
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
Most fems are regular crosses, what about those? Don't they have they same genetic "combos" as regular seeds? AFAICT there is no difference between a grain of pollen with an X chromosome from a male plant and grain of pollen from a female plant. Maybe you know something I don't and can share it with us?
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Fems are not “regular” crosses. They are crosses done with pollen from genetically altered plants. I’m not here to fight about this. I’m not a geneticist and I don’t suspect you are either. However I find it hard to believe that constant inbreeding won’t result in fucked up genetics. In theory it will increase the amount of recessive genes that get stacked together and present themselves. Just like families in Appalachia fucking each other and turning blue over time from recessive traits. As far as I know, it’s been proven throughout time that it’s bad to inbreed. Even with cannabis it’s known that constantly back crossing and inbreeding lines on them selves through regular breeding can result in decreased vigor and negative recessive traits presenting. So the idea that chemically altering them removes this negative effect just seems totally silly.
Did I tell you not to run them? I just stated the reasons I don’t love these trends in the industry. I’ve ran fem seeds and probably will again in the future. I didn’t belittle your choice to run whatever seed you want. Selfing some seeds a couple times at home to have a seed supply won’t likely present anything weird because you are just one person growing a few plants at a time and making a few generations of seeds. You are not a “breeder” doing multiple BX and inbred lines reversing generation after generation after generation and “breeding” them on themselves and then trying to sell them.
2Hearts
Well-Known Member
Wild populations have been inbreeding a very long time, to be honest some plants can some cant - cannabis can and has been. Those types of plants are generally resiliant to genetic change as a species but diverse.
Simple things really dont see that any seed is bad, suprolised the amount that testify to bad seed when i see the opposite.
Simple things really dont see that any seed is bad, suprolised the amount that testify to bad seed when i see the opposite.
weed staff
Member
https://quebeccannabisseeds.com/ i just got 10 bruce banner #3 autos they are throwing in 3-5 free auto seed aswell ! so i got 13 seeds for 130 canadian that included 7 day delivery and the 3-5 fee seed on top of the 10 i payed for. honestly i dont know if it because everyone want to grow right now or what but , i honestly could not find a better deal for myself in ontario canada ? most other places want like 80 -120 tax and shipping , from 5000 miles away for 5 seeds, if any one can show me a better deal that that , please show , Canadian $$$
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
I see, you're not here to fight about this just to spread myths and disinformation unchallenged. You should know that most fems are regular crosses of two different genotypes, just like regular seeds. You can in-cross or out-cross just as you would with males. Only a minority of fem seeds are self pollinated. Inducing females to produce pollen with silver doesn't genetically alter the plants.
Gregor Mendel used selfing in his genetic experiments over 150 years ago, it isn't a new technique or one exclusive to Cannabis. I first learned about Mendelian genetics, alleles, meiosis, punnet squares, etc... in 9th grade biology class. At the level we are discussing it is hardly an advanced science.
It is important to me because many, many growers believe the myths and disinformation around fem seeds and this affects the market for seeds and me. Not only does it reduce demand for female seeds but many of these growers who believe the myths become stem rubbing chuckers. Regs are worse for the gene pool than fems since every generation made with stem rubbed male is a regression to the mean.