Are Republicans afraid of Trump? Hell, no — he's destroying democracy and they love it

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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
Yeah see I don’t care what you think of Trump as a person. This shit ain’t good for our country. This is some straight up divide and conquer shit here and we all need to collectively come to our senses and put a stop to this fucking clown show. The whole part about going after the whistleblower is what I find disgusting.

Anyone with the courage to come forward to report waste, fraud, or abuse should be protected. Even if the whistleblower report had turned out to be totally wrong, the person that came forward needs to be protected. Trump hates the whistleblower because they chose their country over Trump. Trump hates the whistleblower even more because their report was 100% accurate. This is why he wants to ruin the whistleblower. If their accusations had been false there wouldn’t be anything going on right now, and since this whistleblower report was accurate and very consequential, its author needs tbe highest protections. Whistleblowers are courageous — even when they turn out to be wrong, anyone who comes forward to put something they perceive as wrong on record is making this world a better place.

The fact that Trump and the GOP are so mercilessly attacking this whistleblower, who’s honestly pretty irrelevant now that their story has been confirmed, just illustrates their goal. It’s not about this whistleblower but about future ones. It’s about undermining the integrity of our regulatory processes to the point where they no longer have any power, and intimidating anyone who might come forward by showing what will happen once Donny dickbag gets on twitter.
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if you're responding to me:

you didn't read it, did you?
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
you didn't read it, did you?
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I read it all but I could have worded that first sentence better. That wasn’t directed at you but generally at everyone, to prove my point that a person’s opinion of the guy don’t matter all that much with the severity of the facts coming out... if they choose to believe them. Basically, “It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of him, the actions speak for themselves”. I don’t think of this in partisan terms. If a democrat was doing this same shit it would be just as scary. This transcends personal allegiances and is firmly in the territory of just plain wrong.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
I read it all but I could have worded that first sentence better. That wasn’t directed at you but generally at everyone, to prove my point that a person’s opinion of the guy don’t matter all that much with the severity of the facts coming out... if they choose to believe them. Basically, “It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of him, the actions speak for themselves”. I don’t think of this in partisan terms. If a democrat was doing this same shit it would be just as scary. This transcends personal allegiances and is firmly in the territory of just plain wrong.
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well that's the whole point- he's a bad person who won't change his ways and continues with what got him impeached in the first place.

you cannot separate who this person is from their actions.

Clinton was contrite; Trump* doubles-down.

even scarier is that he's surprised impeachment was over a phone call..basically admitting that there are far worse things in his mind which would've qualified nicely.

*impeached
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
I agree completely and that’s what I’m getting at. I’m just shocked that so many people can support such evil behavior. I can see some people that voted for him maybe going through the 5 stages on this one, but right now there is way too much denial and not nearly enough acceptance. I’m just at my wits end as to how people that claim to have strong morals, values, and principles (looking at you evangelicals) can condone and even support this kind of terrible behavior. These people have separated the actions/facts from the person, by creating their own set of alternative facts (those two words will be Kellyanne’s legacy) and a false narrative that they’re succeeding way too well in pushing. You can only keep your head in the sand for so long. I just wonder what it’s gonna take for these people to come to their senses. You can only live off of resentment, fear, and a false sense of entitlement for so long.
 
Moldy

Moldy

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
I agree completely and that’s what I’m getting at. I’m just shocked that so many people can support such evil behavior. I can see some people that voted for him maybe going through the 5 stages on this one, but right now there is way too much denial and not nearly enough acceptance. I’m just at my wits end as to how people that claim to have strong morals, values, and principles (looking at you evangelicals) can condone and even support this kind of terrible behavior. These people have separated the actions/facts from the person, by creating their own set of alternative facts (those two words will be Kellyanne’s legacy) and a false narrative that they’re succeeding way too well in pushing. You can only keep your head in the sand for so long. I just wonder what it’s gonna take for these people to come to their senses. You can only live off of resentment, fear, and a false sense of entitlement for so long.
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They just hate librils ya know. They drank it.
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
Oh I know, that constant mission to troll, trigger, and otherwise own the libs. It’s so based, bro.

It’s ironic. I’m a white dude, college dropout, work construction, drive a big 3500 diesel truck. By all the trends and statistics I’m part of the main Trump supporting demographics, which is why I think demographics, and the whole practice of splitting people up into categories, are bullshit in general. I’m sure it totally blows some people’s minds when they see my Elizabeth Warren magnet on the tailgate.
 
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hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
Edit: I’m changing the first sentence for clarity because it was poorly worded.

This article just shows that what anyone thinks of Trump as a person is beside the point. This shit ain’t good for our country, and if someone approves of what Trump is doing they need to really think about their values. This is some straight up divide and conquer shit here and we all need to collectively come to our senses and put a stop to this fucking clown show. The whole part about going after the whistleblower is what I find disgusting.

Anyone with the courage to come forward to report waste, fraud, or abuse should be protected. Even if the whistleblower report had turned out to be totally wrong, the person that came forward needs to be protected. Trump hates the whistleblower because they chose their country over Trump. Trump hates the whistleblower even more because their report was 100% accurate. This is why he wants to ruin the whistleblower. If their accusations had been false there wouldn’t be anything going on right now, and since this whistleblower report was accurate and very consequential, its author needs tbe highest protections. Whistleblowers are courageous — even when they turn out to be wrong, anyone who comes forward to put something they perceive as wrong on record is making this world a better place.

The fact that Trump and the GOP are so mercilessly attacking this whistleblower, who’s honestly pretty irrelevant now that their story has been confirmed, just illustrates their goal. It’s not about this whistleblower but about future ones. It’s about undermining the integrity of our regulatory processes to the point where they no longer have any power, and intimidating anyone who might come forward by showing what will happen once Donny dickbag gets on twitter.
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Ill give you a bigger reason for Trump's trying to out the whistleblower:

From the Mueller report:
Screen Shot 2019-11-07 at 1.42.12 PM.png

He is trying to avoid jail and this guy was on the call with Putin as well.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
Oh I know, that constant mission to troll, trigger, and otherwise own the libs. It’s so based, bro.

It’s ironic. I’m a white dude, college dropout, work construction, drive a big 3500 diesel truck. By all the trends and statistics I’m part of the main Trump supporting demographics, which is why I think demographics, and the whole practice of splitting people up into categories, are bullshit in general. I’m sure it totally blows some people’s minds when they see my Elizabeth Warren magnet on the tailgate.
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But if they do a search of all of your posts made on social media (cookies and AI can simply download it off your computer), which stories you read (how many clicks/scrolling/time) on a article, cross reference those with your friends/family that you are most closely in contact with (# of posts, frequency on Facebook/cell phone records), find (using cc data) which stores you and your family frequent. Which places you visit most often (using GPS data on phone), games you play, on and on. If you have a vulnerability they can use the Russians will.

They can get a pretty accurate map of your personality and using data analysis to figure out if they have any propaganda to hit you with.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
I agree completely and that’s what I’m getting at. I’m just shocked that so many people can support such evil behavior. I can see some people that voted for him maybe going through the 5 stages on this one, but right now there is way too much denial and not nearly enough acceptance. I’m just at my wits end as to how people that claim to have strong morals, values, and principles (looking at you evangelicals) can condone and even support this kind of terrible behavior. These people have separated the actions/facts from the person, by creating their own set of alternative facts (those two words will be Kellyanne’s legacy) and a false narrative that they’re succeeding way too well in pushing. You can only keep your head in the sand for so long. I just wonder what it’s gonna take for these people to come to their senses. You can only live off of resentment, fear, and a false sense of entitlement for so long.
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Agree with everything you said. I too was struggling with why hardcore right wing Republicans are so supportive of what that party with Trump as their figurehead have done. Pretty much, I've stopped trying to understand and just remember what they are and have done. It's an empirical understanding without an underlying assumption to help explain it. The only clue that I can hold up to point at the reason why is shown in this report (pdf is embedded below, see page 18 :

The Differential Effects of Economic Conditions and Racial Attitudes in the Election of Donald Trump

There is also a wide array of evidence showing that racial attitudes, coupled with the heightened salience of race in U.S. politics, played a crucial role in organizing public attitudes toward Donald Trump as a candidate (Sides, Tesler, and Vavreck 2017). In this frame, Trump represents an acceleration of pre-existing trends in racial attitude polarization (Tesler 2016), as partisans continue to sort along this dimension (Drutman 2016). Trump’s more aggressive positioning on the issue of immigration than recent Republican candidates drove the parties to sort along these lines as well (Gimpel 2017; McDaniel and McElwee 2017).

Extending this area of analysis, Diana Mutz (2010 ) finds that status threat – a construct that, among other things, includes immigration attitudes, domestic prejudice, and perceptions of discrimination against high-status groups – strongly predicted support for Donald Trump, while pocketbook economic indicators did not.

As you said, you may fit an economic grouping that is stereo-typically thought of as Trump supporters. However, as shown in the study that Shafftner presented as well as other studies, Trump voters aren't any more economically stressed than the 2016 Clinton voters were. Economic hopes and fears did not decide the election. What Shafftner shows is that racial attitudes is a big separator and sexism had a role too. People who voted for Trump were drawn to him by his racist and misogynistic rhetoric like no other president in the modern era. This doesn't explain anything but as I said, it's a clue as to what is going on and a strong predictor of how a white person will vote in the next election too. As shown, it is not whether or not they are white. The largest predictive factor is whether or not they perceive they are discriminated against because they are white. It's my guess that you don't think so.
 

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TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
I really like everything you wrote. Very reasonable, scientific explanation and I’m going to refer to that in the future.
 
too larry

too larry

Well-Known Member
Yes, elected Republicans are scared of 45, and with good reason. With his Tweets and fox news, he will unleash the base on anyone who is brave enough to speak truth to power. {folks would have to be a Flake to think otherwise} For the short term it will keep GOP members in Washington in line, but in the long run it will cost the party it's chance in national elections going forward. Sadly 45 may very well win in 2020, but four more years of him will be hard for the party to overcome. {not to mention the country}

When Clinton was impeached all the Dems stood up and said how bad what he did was, but it didn't rise to the level of impeachment. 45 is making all the GOP lawmakers stand up and say he did nothing wrong. That level of untruth is starting to pry off some of the suburban housewives. According to how the Senate trail is handled, that number could increase greatly.
 
Communist Dreamer

Communist Dreamer

Well-Known Member
too larry said:
Yes, elected Republicans are scared of 45, and with good reason. With his Tweets and fox news, he will unleash the base on anyone who is brave enough to speak truth to power. {folks would have to be a Flake to think otherwise} For the short term it will keep GOP members in Washington in line, but in the long run it will cost the party it's chance in national elections going forward. Sadly 45 may very well win in 2020, but four more years of him will be hard for the party to overcome. {not to mention the country}

When Clinton was impeached all the Dems stood up and said how bad what he did was, but it didn't rise to the level of impeachment. 45 is making all the GOP lawmakers stand up and say he did nothing wrong. That level of untruth is starting to pry off some of the suburban housewives. According to how the Senate trail is handled, that number could increase greatly.
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11 is actually my favorite character. You really need to stop giving spoilers for season 3 of Stranger Things.
 
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