Anyone here really good with numbers I am trying to compare Jacks AN and GH...

This is what AN sent me I didn't realize maybe it was on the label? Specifically I am curious about the amount of Calcium Magnesium (and ratio to K) including 3-2-1 and without the 1 (3-2) Mag. And GH with R.O. Water using Cal/Mag.

By the way 3-2-1 is really supposed to be 3-2-.6 . Not sure when or why it got rounded up I guess it looked better symmetrical on paper?

what are you trying to compare? Jacks has many different products

What are you trying to compare? AN is overpriced “high end” hobbyist stuff, jacks and gh are both reputable fertilizer companies. Pick a grow medium, pick your fertilizer and follow a feed chart don’t overcomplicate it.

plumsmooth said:

By the way 3-2-1 is really supposed to be 3-2-.6 . Not sure when or why it got rounded up I guess it looked better symmetrical on paper?

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I see "3-2-1" used a lot and I suspect it's used as a nickname.

I switched to 3-2-1 from Botanicare Kind and had a great grow. Granted, it's only one grow but it's far less expensive than bottled nutes and is very easy to use. The big win for me was pH was very, very steady. I add Botanicare Silica Blast first, stir in the A, stir in the B, and add Hydroguard at the end. Highly recommended.

This thread has most of what you need on the first page, the nutrient calculator is good as well



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Delps8 said:

I see "3-2-1" used a lot and I suspect it's used as a nickname.

I switched to 3-2-1 from Botanicare Kind and had a great grow. Granted, it's only one grow but it's far less expensive than bottled nutes and is very easy to use. The big win for me was pH was very, very steady. I add Botanicare Silica Blast first, stir in the A, stir in the B, and add Hydroguard at the end. Highly recommended.

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It’s called 3-2-1 because those are the amount of grams you weigh out per gallon of water with jacks 5-12-26. 3g part A, 2g Cal Nitrate, 1g Epsom salts.

waterproof808 said:

It’s called 3-2-1 because those are the amount of grams you weigh out per gallon of water with jacks 5-12-26. 3g part A, 2g Cal Nitrate, 1g Epsom salts.

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I understand why growers refer to is as such - it's plastered all over their website - but this feeding schedule on the Jack's website calls for slightly different values. IIRC, that point is discussed in one of the videos on the site, as well.

If you drop from 3.79 to 3, that's a 26% drop whereas 2.52 to 2.0 is a 21% drop. That's a slight imbalance between A and B though I'd be surprised if it made a difference. If you're using Epsom salts, split the difference and drop it…23.5%? Dunno.

Delps8 said:

I understand why growers refer to is as such - it's plastered all over their website - but this feeding schedule on the Jack's website calls for slightly different values. IIRC, that point is discussed in one of the videos on the site, as well.

If you drop from 3.79 to 3, that's a 26% drop whereas 2.52 to 2.0 is a 21% drop. That's a slight imbalance between A and B though I'd be surprised if it made a difference. If you're using Epsom salts, split the difference and drop it…23.5%? Dunno.

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i think that new feed schedule is just so they can sell you 3 different products...clone formula, bloom, and finish, and the EC target values are too high IMO. My plants do just fine at a max of 1.8 EC, I know many people here run it around 1.0-1.2 without issue. I wasnt aware they bumped up the weights to 3.79-2.52-0.99, thought it used to be 3.6-2.4-1.2...I got some tip burn running at that level, so I dropped my feeds to a straight 3.0-2.0-1.0 and it works great for me.

waterproof808 said:

i think that new feed schedule is just so they can sell you 3 different products...clone formula, bloom, and finish, and the EC target values are too high IMO. My plants do just fine at a max of 1.8 EC, I know many people here run it around 1.0-1.2 without issue. I wasnt aware they bumped up the weights to 3.79-2.52-0.99, thought it used to be 3.6-2.4-1.2...I got some tip burn running at that level, so I dropped my feeds to a straight 3.0-2.0-1.0 and it works great for me.

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I appreciate the info — I wasn't aware that they'd changed the ratios.

Re. more products - "giving the consumer what they want", right? I'm a refugee from Botanicare Kind. I did "lotsa pretty bottles" for my first two grows and then switched to Jacks for grow #3. I'll admit it was tempting to try some of the different products for this last grow but I used the same blend from seedling to harvest.

"My plants do just fine at a max of 1.8 EC, I know many people here run it around 1.0-1.2 without issue." - I think I hit 1.8 for a bit and then ended up at 1.3. I almost had a "perfect run" (no discoloration of any kind) but, right at the end, hit some burned tips like you did. I dropped EC and that took care of it.

One thing I will starting the next grow is to make stock solutions. My grow is in a 2' x 4' tent but the res holds 28 gallons so it takes over an hour to pump all of that water around. I think I can save a few minutes (and reduce the chance for errors) by making a concentrated solution and just measuring it out.

Delps8 said:

One thing I will starting the next grow is to make stock solutions. My grow is in a 2' x 4' tent but the res holds 28 gallons so it takes over an hour to pump all of that water around. I think I can save a few minutes (and reduce the chance for errors) by making a concentrated solution and just measuring it out.

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Stock solutions are where its at. Huge time saver if you just treat it like bottled nutes. I just keep 2 1-gallon jugs and follow the weights printed on the bag for 1 gallon concentrate.

1st jug gets 13oz of Part A and 4.3 Oz of Epsom Salts+water
2nd Jug gets 8.6oz of Calcium Nitrate+water

I find it easy to get it fully dissolved if I use warm water, give it a brief shake, then let it sit for a few hours, and then shake it up again.

Pour out ~35ml of each per gallon of water of your rez, you probably want to play around with this number to get a specific EC. But once you get it dialed just mark the level on a big graduated cylinder to make life easier.

I've yet to put the epsoms right in with part A in a stock solution. Wondered about doing it, but figured they needed to be blended separately for a good reason and never really questioned it.. wrong?

Do they not add epsoms salt to part A in the bag to begin with because it would react in some way? Or is it just a marketing thing, or wouldn't be 3-2-1 anymore? Because it would displace weight to their own bags (making a large portion of a 25 lb sack be full of cheaper salts instead), and they want the customer to get it elswhere, for the best overall deal? Seems it would make their product overall cheaper by adding it, like adding filler to the bags which makes it weaker, but instead they want to make more money by not adding it.. Hmm

Anyway, I guess i'm wondering if it will mess anything up, because i'm about to mix up some stock later tonight, and that would make it even easier. I was gonna make a 3rd bottle of epsom concentrate, but will go ahead and dump it in with if its ok

Delps8 said:

Re. more products - "giving the consumer what they want", right?

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you should try the jack's ro or tap 1 part formulas sometime. i liked the ro formula in my well water. 12-4-16

i believe they specifically say these were developed for cannabis. great customer service: i was emailing with the daughter of the peters family at one point.

Drop That Sound said:

I've yet to put the epsoms right in with part A in a stock solution. Wondered about doing it, but figured they needed to be blended separately for a good reason and never really questioned it.. wrong?

Do they not add epsoms salt to part A in the bag to begin with because it would react in some way? Or is it just a marketing thing, or wouldn't be 3-2-1 anymore? Because it would displace weight to their own bags (making a large portion of a 25 lb sack be full of cheaper salts instead), and they want the customer to get it elswhere, for the best overall deal? Seems it would make their product overall cheaper by adding it, like adding filler to the bags which makes it weaker, but instead they want to make more money by not adding it.. Hmm

Anyway, I guess i'm wondering if it will mess anything up, because i'm about to mix up some stock later tonight, and that would make it even easier. I was gonna make a 3rd bottle of epsom concentrate, but will go ahead and dump it in with if its ok

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I mix epsom and part A in the same gallon of concentrated solution with no issues.

waterproof808 said:

Stock solutions are where its at. Huge time saver if you just treat it like bottled nutes. I just keep 2 1-gallon jugs and follow the weights printed on the bag for 1 gallon concentrate.

1st jug gets 13oz of Part A and 4.3 Oz of Epsom Salts+water
2nd Jug gets 8.6oz of Calcium Nitrate+water

I find it easy to get it fully dissolved if I use warm water, give it a brief shake, then let it sit for a few hours, and then shake it up again.

Pour out ~35ml of each per gallon of water of your rez, you probably want to play around with this number to get a specific EC. But once you get it dialed just mark the level on a big graduated cylinder to make life easier.

Click to expand...

Sounds very straightforward. I'll be staring a grow in mid-August (wow, coming up soon!) so I'll give it a try then.

Drop That Sound said:

I've yet to put the epsoms right in with part A in a stock solution. Wondered about doing it, but figured they needed to be blended separately for a good reason and never really questioned it.. wrong?

Do they not add epsoms salt to part A in the bag to begin with because it would react in some way? Or is it just a marketing thing, or wouldn't be 3-2-1 anymore? Because it would displace weight to their own bags (making a large portion of a 25 lb sack be full of cheaper salts instead), and they want the customer to get it elswhere, for the best overall deal? Seems it would make their product overall cheaper by adding it, like adding filler to the bags which makes it weaker, but instead they want to make more money by not adding it.. Hmm

Anyway, I guess i'm wondering if it will mess anything up, because i'm about to mix up some stock later tonight, and that would make it even easier. I was gonna make a 3rd bottle of epsom concentrate, but will go ahead and dump it in with if its ok

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Good questions and answers.

It could be mixed in successfully and it would lower their production cost. On the other hand, it would move the product away from one that is pretty "configurable".

Other posters are adding Epsom to part A stock solutions so I don't know of a reason to not do that.