AnnArbor Dispensarys receiving letters

TheMan13 said:

there will not be many standing with us

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If we all try to learn to stand on our own we will be much stronger as a group! Times are changing and I don't care what anyone else is capable of or can be depended on for. Nice to have the help of others, but I have a feeling when shit hits the fan there will be a lot of secretaries, telemarkets, and sales people wishing they had learned to produce some hard goods. Bartering will always works as money if your are capable of creating something.

Yep I have wanted to say Becareful what you wish for, because you just might get it and most of us will not like it. I gonna do what I did 10yrs before it became medically legal, grow my own. How ironic the people are paranoid of the government and the government is paranoid of the people.

TheMan13 said:

I totally agree with you, but will you spend your time and money growing if you can pick up a pre rolled pack (OZ) of a known pheno of Super Lemon Haze from Marlboro for 100$?

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Of course I'd try it, but I'm a grower so my opinion is different. its like asking a guy who is a total home brew hop head if he'd drink bud light. Sure he has, but not twice LOL. the masses might try it, and like it even. that's who its for some of my friends wouldn't hesitate if the price was 100 for 20 cig size SLH doobies it'd be on but they would also still want an 1/8 of my killer chronic to show off in a circle of tokers at a party or what not. I think we'd be in a bigger minority as home growers and actually see a bump in price and demand when the choice becomes the home bred killer or the same old shit from marlboro.

Thats what I'm banking on! Fingers crossed!

Cannabis is very diverse by Nature and its impossible to commercialize every strain and Hybrid so there will always be High demands for the rare smoke and this Michigan is the key to survival . When marijuana is commercially available on a legal note I and many others will still hold hundreds of genetics and possible combinations beyond those that are already stable . It may just be a interesting time for some of us when it boils down to it ..

I can shut myself from the world and grow all I want and need while never obtaining genetics again , maybe I will just dig a hole and bury some genetics in a time capsule for those 7 generations away as they will most likely need them by then as they may only know commercialized medicine by that time in era !

I have been a mmj activist living in A2 my whole life, and I am over 50. Although I do like being able to go to a dispensary to get variety and to sustain my med needs when my friends are out of meds, I honestly feel that the michigan model is far superior to the California model, and I wish people would stop trying to turn Michigan in to another California - our law is better. The michigan law currently does not allow for dispensaries, because it is all about the patient rights - the plants belong to the patient not the caregiver, therefore the concept of "overages" is flawed since the caregiver has no business or legal right selling the meds that they grew for their patients to other people. The Michigan law has been criticized as being too vague, however it was worded that way on purpose, in order to protect the rights of patients. The recent changes to the laws all seem to be aimed at the people trying to make a quick buck off of the law, such as drive thru pot dr's in a box, or greedy dispensary owners. I think that of all of the dispensaries/collectives here in A2 and Ypsi (and I have been to all of them) only one or 2 of them are actually interested in the patients and helping them - the rest are all greedy and offer sub-par meds, especially for the price.

I do not agree with the plant ownership part of your post but if we can have commercial, home hobby and boutique/micro-brew type set-ups then I'm all for anyone's point of view that supports those things. seems simple enough; the more options the better for business AND small time personal models.

Cory and trevor said:

I do not agree with the plant ownership part of your post..

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I didn't write the law. refer to Section 333.26424 of the law, paragraph 4, subsection 2:

"for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility"

They are cultivating the plants for the patient, therefore the plants technically belong to the patient. This does not meant that the caregiver doesn't receive compensation for the service, but legally the caregiver is only allowed to grow the plants for their patient, they can't legally consume any of the medicine unless they are also a patient.

Nowhere in the law does it deal with the concept of "overages." Caregivers were limited to only 5 patients in order to dissuade anyone from trying to make a huge business out of it - it is supposed to allow patients who need relief from MMJ to hire someone to grow it for them if they don't have the skill or knowledge to do it themselves, not to set up businesses.

bimple said:

I didn't write the law. refer to Section 333.26424 of the law, paragraph 4, subsection 2:

"for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility"

They are cultivating the plants for the patient, therefore the plants technically belong to the patient. This does not meant that the caregiver doesn't receive compensation for the service, but legally the caregiver is only allowed to grow the plants for their patient, they can't legally consume any of the medicine unless they are also a patient.

Nowhere in the law does it deal with the concept of "overages." Caregivers were limited to only 5 patients in order to dissuade anyone from trying to make a huge business out of it - it is supposed to allow patients who need relief from MMJ to hire someone to grow it for them if they don't have the skill or knowledge to do it themselves, not to set up businesses.

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I can't argue that bimple, but when given the option to pay/donate for every gram of meds a patient receives from his/her caregiver, OR receive x amount free every crop and allow the caregiver to get rid of overages else where I would guess that most patients would be quite alright with option #1.

the law also states that it is up to the caregiver and patient to work out the compensation, and that the state wasn't involved in that aspect of the patient/caregiver relationship. It seems to me that a caregiver would calculate how much a patient needs and then would grow that amount - then those meds would be available for them when they need it. If the caregiver goes balls out and grows 12 plants for a patient that only needs 1 or 2, that is not an overage, that is stockpiling meds for that patient to have them available when they need it. For that reason, a patient should never hear the words "no meds are available" from a decent caregiver who knows how to grow, and also there is no need to gouge patients for that service. Caregivers are basing their prices on street prices, or dispensary prices, which is unfair.

bimple said:

. Caregivers are basing their prices on street prices, or dispensary prices, which is unfair.

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Sad but true as many have to do so to make up for there lack of skills or they are out for the love of cash verses the love for the plant ! I would give it away if I could afford to and I practically do for my patients as they have never had to pay high dollar for high quality .

I hate to admit that there are many variables that contribute to the prices in the end such as supply and demand along with the geography .. I think it should be like Pharma drugs , as they are purchased at a set price and then sold on the streets at much higher prices . Medical marijuana seems to be heading down the path of greed sad to say .

But I understand how hard it is to live in this day and age and I cant blame anyone for trying to survive by all means possible .

ProfessorPotSnob said:

But I understand how hard it is to live in this day and age and I cant blame anyone for trying to survive by all means possible .

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Agreed - what I have a problem with is the greedy dispensaries that are paying $150 to $200 an oz (or less) and then turning around and selling it to "patients" for $560 an oz (@ $20 per gram) for stuff that wouldn't get my granny buzzed. That's greed, pure and simple. I understand how supply and demand works, and big pharm does the same thing with stuff like viagra, but I would hope that we could all rise above the drug dealing/user mentality that we have been conditioned to for so many years.

bimple said:

the law also states that it is up to the caregiver and patient to work out the compensation, and that the state wasn't involved in that aspect of the patient/caregiver relationship. It seems to me that a caregiver would calculate how much a patient needs and then would grow that amount - then those meds would be available for them when they need it. If the caregiver goes balls out and grows 12 plants for a patient that only needs 1 or 2, that is not an overage, that is stockpiling meds for that patient to have them available when they need it. For that reason, a patient should never hear the words "no meds are available" from a decent caregiver who knows how to grow, and also there is no need to gouge patients for that service. Caregivers are basing their prices on street prices, or dispensary prices, which is unfair.

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bimple, it's a plant. Anyone who has grown one will tell you that it is impossible to pinpoint exactly what each harvest will bring. Also, the patients needs and/or consumption may vary from week to week, or month to month.

I agree with you that a good caregiver will maintain an uninterrupted supply of meds for his patient. However, the state has set forth rules on how much a caregiver and patient can be in possession of. If I grow 2 plants for a patient, and they yield a total of 7 ounces, and I in turn hand the patient the maximum amount legally allowed of 2.5 ounces, and then set aside another 2.5 ounces (the most I can have as a caregiver for that patient) what am I to do with the additional 2 ounces? Set it on fire? Flush it down the toilet? Risk my freedom and hold on to it for the patient anyway?

I think too many people stick their noses in to other peoples business. The bottom line for me is that so long as both the patient and caregiver are up front about things, agree to a certain way of going about things, and then stick to those agreed upon principles then nobody outside of those two should be worried about it. If either one of them drops the ball, then this is America and they are free to look for a better arrangement with someone else.

bimple said:

The Michigan law has been criticized as being too vague, however it was worded that way on purpose, in order to protect the rights of patients. The recent changes to the laws all seem to be aimed at the people trying to make a quick buck off of the law, such as drive thru pot dr's in a box, or greedy dispensary owners. I think that of all of the dispensaries/collectives here in A2 and Ypsi (and I have been to all of them) only one or 2 of them are actually interested in the patients and helping them - the rest are all greedy and offer sub-par meds, especially for the price.

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So, the law was written purposely vague on purpose, EXCEPT for YOUR interpretation that all patients deserve free meds because anything else is dirty and greedy. Hmmm, that kinda makes me think that you're dirty and greedy, and just make yourself feel better by "calling the pot black"...

The 2.5 ounce limitation is how much a patient can acquire at a time. There is nothing in the law stating how often a patient can come to the caregiver (however there are limits in the new dispensary bill). So, if a patient needed 2.5 ounces a day then they could acquire that, they just can't be in posession of more than that at any given time. If you read the law, it states that the caregiver may posess no more than "2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process" the key word being usable. The mmj isn't ready until it's cured, therefore it isn't useable until it is cured properly. So, you can (and should) have more than 2.5 ounces curing at a time per patient.

The state agrees with you about the patient/caregiver relationship as well - it is up to them to work it out, nobody is arguing that point. What I am mainly discussing is where dispensaries could possibly fit in to the caregiver/patient relationship as allowed by law. Is a dispensary allowed to have 2.5 ounces available and onhand for every patient that is registered there? If so, how does that affect the original caregiver relationship. This is why the dispensary model and michigan's law don't work well together as it currently stands.

potsnoberry said:

So, the law was written purposely vague on purpose, EXCEPT for YOUR interpretation that all patients deserve free meds because anything else is dirty and greedy. Hmmm, that kinda makes me think that you're dirty and greedy, and just make yourself feel better by "calling the pot black"...

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hahah wow - that is so way off base I don't even know where to begin. I never mentioned free meds, ever. Get a grip, smoke a joint, geesh. I am involved with the people who wrote the actual wording of the law on a personal basis, and I know for a fact that the law was worded that way for a specific reason, and that is what I was referring to. This law was written intentionally vague, the hope was obviously that the bench would read it in a more liberal light, which obviously did not happen.

bimple said:

The 2.5 ounce limitation is how much a patient can acquire at a time. There is nothing in the law stating how often a patient can come to the caregiver (however there are limits in the new dispensary bill). So, if a patient needed 2.5 ounces a day then they could acquire that, they just can't be in posession of more than that at any given time. If you read the law, it states that the caregiver may posess no more than "2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process" the key word being usable. The mmj isn't ready until it's cured, therefore it isn't useable until it is cured properly. So, you can (and should) have more than 2.5 ounces curing at a time per patient.

The state agrees with you about the patient/caregiver relationship as well - it is up to them to work it out, nobody is arguing that point. What I am mainly discussing is where dispensaries could possibly fit in to the caregiver/patient relationship as allowed by law. Is a dispensary allowed to have 2.5 ounces available and onhand for every patient that is registered there? If so, how does that affect the original caregiver relationship. This is why the dispensary model and michigan's law don't work well together as it currently stands.

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You keep referring to the law, and then you throw that in there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you'll find any language in the law pertaining to "curing". Are you suggesting that caregivers should risk their freedom over some nuance that isn't even written in to the law?

"Excuse me officer, take a puff of this. As you can clearly see it's still kind of harsh to smoke, therefor it isn't properly "cured" and you should remove these handcuffs from me immediately."

cops w a warrant should be trained to simply do a quick plant count. if that is in order then they should get the hell out of a tax paying citizens/a voters home within 5-10 minutes tops, and make a note to never hassle that address again. also, it would help if they demonstrated regret for the temporary inconvenience, for fear of being reported for being an inconsiderate donut hole eater.stay the fk off my property at all times.

I'm not going to get into it about the plants-that's a tired old song and dance we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Let's skip that, leave it up to the people involved in each individual situation and move on to what we DO AGREE ON shall we? we agree that there should be a place to acquire meds in case a patient doesn't grow or like meeting new people, doesn't know anyone who grows etc. Maybe answering threads on-line about a guy needing a patient and giving them their SSN and all the necessary info to steal their identity etc. thru the brilliantly stupid paperwork that gets more complicated and redundantly retarded every time I print it out isn't a patients bag, they should have a storefront alternative, yes? You should be able to grow your own as well if you're able. agree? And on top of all that there is even room for the corps. inc. llc and MERKS and Phizers and Marlobros to put out their mass produced watered down pot. yes? between those lines everyone can agree, can't they? If you're all about the patients don't force me into a box in how I serve willing consumers/patients with patient limits and plant limits and give them the most options available. see these things always spiral down into who owns plants and cheapskate patients and profiteering caregivers but lift all the stupid restrictions and everyone wins and can be happy. don't focus on the nit picky shit we don't see eye to eye on and stick to what we do. everyone should be allowed to grow it. everyone should be able to sell it to anyone. (age limit, I guess) and no body should be in prison or jail or on probation for it. fight for that and we can team up, worry about 2.5 ounces however often and who decides compensation and how many plants belong to whom and you're fracturing your movement. reminds me of Christians sometimes; baptists think the Catholics are dicks and wrong and so do the Lutherans don't do this and the Jewish people think you're all crazy....except you all believe in one true god, right? Shit man, even Muslims believe the same bullshit they just call him/her Allah, right? its always about what's different. WTF is the same! and I hop off the soap box and leave it all behind me to tend to my garden PEACE OUT! LOL

abe supercro said:

cops w a warrant should be trained to simply do a quick plant count. if that is in order then they should get the hell out of a tax paying citizens/a voters home within 5-10 minutes tops, and make a note to never hassle that address again. also, it would help if they demonstrated regret for the temporary inconvenience, for fear of being reported for being an inconsiderate donut hole eater.stay the fk off my property at all times.

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STRAIGHT UP ABE! I want to get me one of those signs I saw at the grow store I think it ends...."and no one other than those named above (including law enforcement) are legally allowed to enter this protected premise!"