• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

An actual liberal is running for president

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
No, I support him either way

He can't win because his campaign won't have the funds to compete with Clinton

A lot of money

Because his political views are contradictory to the views of the political establishment

I think every politician should get the funds to run their campaigns from the American people

I agree

Not a goddamn thing. $330 million < the expected $1 billion+ the Clinton campaign is going to spend
but we're allowing special interest groups to control our political system (and us) by siding with the one who can afford the most coverage..we play into their hand every time.

shame on us.

sometimes you just have to take a stand for what you believe in.

at minimum we get the chance to make a statement..just like 'occupy', snowden.

history is often unkind 'in the moment' yet someday we'll be considered 'visonairies'.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
but we're allowing special interest groups to control our political system (and us) by siding with the one who can afford the most coverage..we play into their hand every time.

shame on us.

sometimes you just have to take a stand for what you believe in.

at minimum we get the chance to make a statement..just like 'occupy', snowden.

history is often unkind 'in the moment' yet someday we'll be considered 'visonairies'.
I'm not siding with Clinton, I'm saying what I think will happen

The only way Clinton will get my vote is if she wins the primary because as bad as she is, she's astronomically better than any republican candidate on the ticket
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
First in: Clinton's campaign will be derailed by criminal charges, Sanders will win nomination by vote or default when that happens. Sanders, being a Socialist, will not get much support from all but the most extreme of the Democrats and be totaly shunned by Independants.
i bet that prediction works out just as well as your retarded skewed polls conspiracy prediction!
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
i'm gonna vote for him..are those new teeth?

Have you kicked Hillary to the curb?
Interesting, because IMO, Bernie is not electable, but Hillary most certainly still is (warts, baggage, ethical challenges and all). She is the establishments anointed one.

Of the two however, my preference would be Bernie who is most decidedly not the establishment candidate. He seems to be relatively honest and true to his political convictions.
I think he wrong but not glaringly dishonest.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I think he wrong but not glaringly dishonest.
Good post

What do you think Sanders is wrong about if you don't mind me asking? I think his stance on cannabis is favorable, but he doesn't seem to think it's much of a priority when put up against the other issues the country faces. I think that's a mistake because the criminal designation of cannabis alone leads to so many other problems
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
I'm not siding with Clinton, I'm saying what I think will happen

The only way Clinton will get my vote is if she wins the primary because as bad as she is, she's astronomically better than any republican candidate on the ticket
I agree, but I'm tired of having to "settle" for the lesser of two evils.

it's up to us, pada..it's just like the libertarian faction of the right.

we need to get the message out.

we keep saying how to take money out? when we continually hedge and fold it's because we are fucking lazy asses.

no news coverage for you bernie sanders! you don't have the mega bucks in order to suck on teat of american journalism.

i'm voting for this guy..all the way through and i'm going to do my best to see it reality..this would probably be his last opportunity.

i'm going to volunteer for his campaign and i'm ready to get to work now!

don't discount the wild card, folks..a black man with middle name 'hussein' beat the dynasty back in 2008, based on nothing more than 'hope and change'.
We have the Hope, It's time for the Change.
I have never helped on a campaign before, I'm ready now. @Schuyaar wanna Carpool?
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Good post

What do you think Sanders is wrong about if you don't mind me asking? I think his stance on cannabis is favorable, but he doesn't seem to think it's much of a priority when put up against the other issues the country faces. I think that's a mistake because the criminal designation of cannabis alone leads to so many other problems

I just do not think that socialism is a viable or superior ideology, it has a dismal track record thus far in the annals of human history.
Part of me desires that socialism could be beneficial to the human condition. I have yet to see any evidence however that this could possibly be true.

It looks good on paper, but reality can be a righteous bitch!

BTW, if it were up to me, I would make all drugs perfectly legal...this would solve so many problems...:bigjoint:
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I just do not think that socialism is a viable or superior ideology, it has a dismal track record thus far in the annals of human history.
Part of me desires that socialism could be beneficial to the human condition. I have yet to see any evidence however that this could possibly be true.

It looks good on paper, but reality can be a righteous bitch!

BTW, if it were up to me, I would make all drugs perfectly legal...this would solve so many problems...:bigjoint:
Are you familiar with the Mondragon Corporation in Spain or the way they run their co-ops? What do you think about implementing something similar here in America?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Any corporation in the US is free to attempt any structural scheme they think that would enhance profitability. The corporation is primarily beholden to shareholders. If the Mondragon corporation model could achieve superior EPS over existing structures, you would see it implemented here in the US on a large scale.

If the Mondragon system could boost EPS you would see it emulated by many large fortune 500 companies.
Because this has not yet happened here speaks for itself.

It is really all about profitability, apologies to Noam Chomsky and similar ideologues.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
If the Mondragon system could boost EPS you would see it emulated by many large fortune 500 companies.
Because this has not yet happened here speaks for itself.
If a co-op system is better, corporations would be doing it here, and since they're not, that suggests it's not better

I disagree

I think to objectively determine which system is better we would need to compare Mondragon Corporation with a similar sized corporation here in America and agree on a few different metrics to measure, like average employee wage, benefits, paid time off, vacation time, profits, EPS, etc.

So, if you're interested, which corporation do you think is comparable to Mondragon and what metrics would you use to determine the success of a business? Or do you believe the only measure of success is profit? More profit = more successful, regardless of any other metrics
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
If a co-op system is better, corporations would be doing it here, and since they're not, that suggests it's not better

I disagree

I think to objectively determine which system is better we would need to compare Mondragon Corporation with a similar sized corporation here in America and agree on a few different metrics to measure, like average employee wage, benefits, paid time off, vacation time, profits, EPS, etc.

So, if you're interested, which corporation do you think is comparable to Mondragon and what metrics would you use to determine the success of a business? Or do you believe the only measure of success is profit? More profit = more successful, regardless of any other metrics
Shareholders come first...all else is secondary. Shareholders are the owners.

Apple is quite profitable, the majority of shareholders and employees are seemingly happy.

Too bad that they outsource most of their basic manufacturing...but this is a separate issue.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
okay. here's what i'm thinking..do we discount sanders' run and not support him because we know he can't win? but why can't he win? of course he can win..what does he need to win? and why do you think he can't get it? who do you think he should get it from? not voting for someone because they are deemed 'unwinnable' imo is the wrong position to take..we must fight for what we want..we as americans are used to being 'served up' and 'super size everything' we are the only country that does this.

it's more american to go with the underdog than the clear favorite..but it's up to us, not 'someone else' to drive the passion..if everyone donated $1 to his campaign what could that do for him? you see, 'the people' don't need 'favors' or 'special deals'..they just need a government they can rely on..for the people, by the people, simple right?..how did this become so lost in translation? think of what it would be like to have a president who doesn't owe anyone anything? here we have a very brilliant man (he's a jew automatically gets 30+ points on IQ)..who's here for the people, running for the people..exactly what the people want..should be a no-brainer, right?

ginsburg isn't going anywhere, she's already said it as many times as warren said she isn't running..they'll carry her out in a bodybag before she retires...i'd love to get rid of that fuckface scalia and hope he has congestive heart failure someday soon. he also sounds like a perv when giving opinion..his voice is sooooooo creepy. ew.
If everyone in the whole country have him a dollar to run- that's a cool $300 million- he'd STILL be outspent by at least five to one! THAT'S how fucked up our system is!
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Shareholders come first...all else is secondary. Shareholders are the owners.

Apple is quite profitable, the majority of shareholders and employees are seemingly happy.

Too bad that they outsource most of their basic manufacturing...but this is a separate issue.
Well I'm not sure that's a valid comparison, Apple's revenue exceeded $182 billion in 2014, Mondragon came in at just over $12.5

But also, the employees are the shareholders, so if you're using shareholder satisfaction as the only metric for success, that's a highly successful corporation according to your own standard, right?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
From Robert Reich's Facebook page;

"THE THREE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC MORALITY. I’m glad Bernie Sanders is describing America’s surging inequality as “a profound moral issue.” He's right. For too many years, Democratic candidates have provided lists of policies while Republicans talk about morality. But Republican morality is about private personal decisions – to marry a gay partner, to have an abortion, to pray or seek redemption.

Democrats must talk about three fundamental principles of public morality that give context and meaning to key policies.

1. No American who works full time should be in poverty, nor should their families. This is why the minimum wage should be raised to $15 an hour, why the Earned Income Tax Credit should be expanded, why labor unions should be strengthened and expanded, and why we need a minimum basic income for all.

2. All Americans should be able to make the most of their intrinsic talents and abilities. This is why every child should have early-childhood education, free pre-K, a world-class K-12 school, and free access to public higher education. It’s also why all workers must be able to upgrade their skills throughout their lifetimes -- with unemployment insurance linked to job training. And why all companies must devote at least 2% of their earnings to upgrading the skills of their hourly workers.

3. America must not have a privileged aristocracy. This is why the estate tax must be raised on inherited wealth at the top, why CEO pay over $1 million shouldn’t be deductible from corporate income taxes, why the biggest Wall Street banks must be must be busted up, and why the monopolies and oligopolies that dominate Big Oil, Big Pharma, military contractors, Internet Service Providers, Big Agriculture must be broken up as well. It’s also why we must get big money out of our politics.
These are not just economically sensible ideas. They are moral imperatives.

What do you think?"

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich?fref=nf
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
From Robert Reich's Facebook page;

"THE THREE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC MORALITY. I’m glad Bernie Sanders is describing America’s surging inequality as “a profound moral issue.” He's right. For too many years, Democratic candidates have provided lists of policies while Republicans talk about morality. But Republican morality is about private personal decisions – to marry a gay partner, to have an abortion, to pray or seek redemption.

Democrats must talk about three fundamental principles of public morality that give context and meaning to key policies.

1. No American who works full time should be in poverty, nor should their families. This is why the minimum wage should be raised to $15 an hour, why the Earned Income Tax Credit should be expanded, why labor unions should be strengthened and expanded, and why we need a minimum basic income for all.

2. All Americans should be able to make the most of their intrinsic talents and abilities. This is why every child should have early-childhood education, free pre-K, a world-class K-12 school, and free access to public higher education. It’s also why all workers must be able to upgrade their skills throughout their lifetimes -- with unemployment insurance linked to job training. And why all companies must devote at least 2% of their earnings to upgrading the skills of their hourly workers.

3. America must not have a privileged aristocracy. This is why the estate tax must be raised on inherited wealth at the top, why CEO pay over $1 million shouldn’t be deductible from corporate income taxes, why the biggest Wall Street banks must be must be busted up, and why the monopolies and oligopolies that dominate Big Oil, Big Pharma, military contractors, Internet Service Providers, Big Agriculture must be broken up as well. It’s also why we must get big money out of our politics.
These are not just economically sensible ideas. They are moral imperatives.

What do you think?"

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich?fref=nf
I think I like how he thinks. A lot.
 
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