Advice Please: Getting Nervous

glyphen said:

Pic 7 is the only one I really see the signs of curling in, just so its out there.

I do see signs of needing N in the lower leaves, but generally speaking I think all of your "canopy" is looking pretty sharp my friend.

Again, I will be in touch this evening.

Good day friend

-G


On a side note, its pretty amazing that we made this outa what was on Page 2 isnt it?

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Man you said a mouthful, glyphen! I'm in a much better place.

Here's a few more leaf pics. Funny, the majority of the yellow leaves are on that plant in the center. She is getting by far the most yellow leaves. All the others are not doing this anything significantly.

WSF

glyphen said:

Did they get particularly close to the lights ever? If so that could be it. With all the streching going on lets not rule out the obvious. Curling can come from the light, and those 600w's can cause curling without yellowing. Do you have any curling at all on the bottom half? How many leaves would you say are showing this?
-G

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The curling is occuring on all the plants mainly on the largest leafs, but not all of them. And most are outside of the direct light, out on the fringes of the light.

About distance from the lights: you know Glyphen I've been wondering about this question myself. But I've been worrying I have the lights too far, not too close. My tallest bud is about 8 inches from my lense of the fixutre, about12 inches from the HPS bulb itself; right under the light. That bulb is stretching up toward the bulb, looking absolutely maximum- pretty, crisp blades coming out of her, all good. I keep thinking to myself: that bud sure looks close to the light but she looks like she is laying on the beach for the first time this summer and loving it!!!!!! No sign of any burn. I don' know....................

And with the vast majority of the yellow leaves coming from just that center plant, I wonder. Amsterdammarijuannaseeds.com has gotten some bad press on RIU. Maybe they are not pure indica, but rather some other strain, maybe sativa dominant. Could be.

Footnote glyphen, you should see my other four I got from another seed vendor. Two White Rino, Two Northern Lights. Wow! They are a sight to behold. So lovely and green and bushy. I can't wait to flower them! They are ready to flower now. I will have to prune them back majorly.

WSF

Woodstockfan said:

The curling is occuring on all the plants mainly on the largest leafs, but not all of them. And most are outside of the direct light, out on the fringes of the light.

About distance from the lights: you know Glyphen I've been wondering about this question myself. But I've been worrying I have the lights too far, not too close. My tallest bud is about 8 inches from my lense of the fixutre, about12 inches from the HPS bulb itself; right under the light. That bulb is stretching up toward the bulb, looking absolutely maximum- pretty, crisp blades coming out of her, all good. I keep thinking to myself: that bud sure looks close to the light but she looks like she is laying on the beach for the first time this summer and loving it!!!!!! No sign of any burn. I don' know....................

And with the vast majority of the yellow leaves coming from just that center plant, I wonder. Amsterdammarijuannaseeds.com has gotten some bad press on RIU. Maybe they are not pure indica, but rather some other strain, maybe sativa dominant. Could be.

Footnote glyphen, you should see my other four I got from another seed vendor. Two White Rino, Two Northern Lights. Wow! They are a sight to behold. So lovely and green and bushy. I can't wait to flower them! They are ready to flower now. I will have to prune them back majorly.

WSF

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Good stuff my friend, glad to hear the next round is going smoothly.

Thats interesting that the only one with the majority being in the middle. I wonder if it is recieving a more intense light, being right in the middle. Sounds about right with your distances though. I run 400w and a cooltube so I keep them closer then that, but it sounds about par for 600w users. Read around the 600w club thread and see if anyone has a suggestion though.

Are the ladies that are curling outside of the light footprint?

Oh yeah,
Looking at those leaves I still think they just need some N, but Im not positive and still not home to read on this.

I will reference the "canabible" for the all mighty answers and get back to you tonight/tomorrow morning.

Have a good evening friend,

-G

Woodstockfan said:

The curling is occuring on all the plants mainly on the largest leafs, but not all of them. And most are outside of the direct light, out on the fringes of the light.

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The curling you are talking about, is it just the tips curling down, possibly too much N. If there is no nute burn I wouldn't worry about it, think of it as warning.

My tallest bud is about 8 inches from my lense of the fixutre, about12 inches from the HPS bulb itself; right under the light.

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Sounds about right, I am using a 600w sunpulse (MH) I found that 8" was the closest I could get. HPS puts out more heat.

And with the vast majority of the yellow leaves coming from just that center plant, I wonder. WSF

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Could be a sensitive strain, possible nute lock. In one of the pics it looks like you have a unit pointing at it (heater?) Could be drying it out quickly.

One of the plants I am growing is a 50/50 indica/sativa, and I have noticed it is extremely sensitive with nutes more so than the sativa I am growing.

The curling I am most concerned with is the "folding up" of the large fan leaves along the length of the blades. Notice the picture I put in today's post of the leaves. Have you seen this type of curling before? This is occuring mostly outside the footprint of the light, but not all.

The "claw" is only on a few leaves and were present before I gave any nutes. I don't think it is nute related.
The unit you see in the pic is a dehumidifier (a 25 pint unit) that I have pluged into a humidistat. Don't want mold setting in on my buds.

My temps stay around 80 during the day and about 65 at night when lights are off.

1 - What are the wattages of the CFLs?
2 - Are you using dirt from out side cuz that's what it looks like your using.
3 - The temps should be a little over 70F 80F is starting to push it.
4 - What's the PH level of the water your using?

Toolage57 said:

1 - What are the wattages of the CFLs?
2 - Are you using dirt from out side cuz that's what it looks like your using.
3 - The temps should be a little over 70F 80F is starting to push it.
4 - What's the PH level of the water your using?

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I am using Fox Farm Ocean Forest. No dirt from outside. I topped each pot with play-sand to guard against gnats and bugs and preventing them from laying eggs. Sand also good reflection to direct light up into lower buds.

My ladies currently flowering are not under CFLs. They are under two 600 watt HPS easycool fixtures.

Temps only reach into the 80s occasionally so far into the flowering process. I have good ventilation and good outside air intake supply. I also have a dehumidifier humidistatically controlled. Also have a 18-inch oscillating stand fan running at all times.

I monitor pH carefully. Use a Hanna pH meter anytime i apply anything other than h2o, but I haven't given nutes except a grand total of three (3) times, and gave 3/4 strength. Using Dutchmaster Gold mj nutes, but again have not used much.

Have you ever seen leaves folding up along the length of the blades of the fan leaves like i have pictured in pic number 4 above?

Thanks.

WSF

WSF

ok

1 - I wouldn't put sand on the top of the soil cuz it can hold stuff that could cause problums down the road.

2 - When using CFLs that you can use in a regular light socket try to get the ones that have the highers Lumes per watt out put thus better then the ones that put out less lumes per watt

3 - The sides of the leafs curling up could be a heat problum. How close is the top of the plants to the light? also put your hand on top of the plant with the back of it facing up. If it feels to warm/hot then move the light back an inch from the plants

Woodstockfan said:

The curling I am most concerned with is the "folding up" of the large fan leaves along the length of the blades. Notice the picture I put in today's post of the leaves. Have you seen this type of curling before? This is occuring mostly outside the footprint of the light, but not all.

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Wind burn? Are they close to the fan, or air intake?

Sleepy79 said:

Wind burn? Are they close to the fan, or air intake?

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Haven't thought of that, Sleepy. Yes the fan is about 18" from the closest plant, about 4 feet from the furthest, far side.

Is this maybe too close to the plants? I thought you should keep the tops moving ...................

WSF

I would say that the plant's are not getting at the nutrients this may be due to nutrient lock out.Are you mixing the nutrients has required or are the nutrient's standing in a tub.Flush the plant's through with water ph'ed at what you have been doing hopefully 6.2/6.5 soil and 5.2/5.6 hydroponic if the ph is out of any of these ranges the plant will not utilise the nutrients right.If you flush the plant's through then let them dry out put them in the next size pot.The reason that i say this is that if you are watering when the soil is still moist the plant's roots will become prematurely rootbound this in it's self will holt growth.Put into next size pot and water the crap out of the plant with the ammount of nutrients recomended for the size of plant.But then let it dry out this will take about 5/7 day's under a h.p.s light.This will anable the root sytem to fill the whole of the pot ratehr that just the bottom.Add a little superthrive to the nutes and some root juice if you have a good supplyers near your home.Flush the plants at least twice during the veg stage this will get any unwanted salts ext in the soil.Also i would have nutrients in every feed rather than nutes in one then just water this will give the plant the chance to utilise the nutrients if it wants to.Sometime the plant will bypass the nutrients and just take water but this is not very often if the plant is healthy looking then it will normaly utilise any nutrients that you give it........tyke.................................

Alright chief heres the diagnosis:

I suspect your soil may be a tad low on the PH and is causing your ladies to show signs of nute issues, manganese particularly.

If you have a soil kit, check it out and make sure you are in the specified range. Other wise they just need some Manganese. Im not sure if your feeding regime is sufficient for this particular issue, but thats what Im putting my money on.


Theres only 3 things that really generally cause this. I read about 200 pages through 5 different books last night as I really want you to get through this and all of them came to these 3 things with the symptoms you are having.

1)Too much N/nutrients in the soil. Im not thinking this is it, actually I think you need more N and that is causing the yellowing. I believe there are actually 2 issues at hand here, and the yellowing is the need of nitrogen.

2) Manganese deficiency. Exact same symptoms as what you are having, to the T with curled leaves and all. However read 3 before making any opinions since I believe you are using quality soil, and decent food I dont really think this is the deal at all. Plus you usually dont end up with this issue until late in the game.

3) PH too low in the soil causing the plant to stop accepting Manganese. This is it. I would bet money on it. I think you have a good supply of nutes, ,good soil and good looking ladies with no real signs of crisis. I think that what you are seeing is the plant having a hard time digesting the meal so to say. So if you can check the PH in the soil and get back to me.


Good day friend, we will get through this!!
-G

Hello Friends. All well. Heading down the finish line ..............

glyphen said:

Alright chief heres the diagnosis:

I suspect your soil may be a tad low on the PH and is causing your ladies to show signs of nute issues, manganese particularly.

If you have a soil kit, check it out and make sure you are in the specified range. Other wise they just need some Manganese. Im not sure if your feeding regime is sufficient for this particular issue, but thats what Im putting my money on.


Theres only 3 things that really generally cause this. I read about 200 pages through 5 different books last night as I really want you to get through this and all of them came to these 3 things with the symptoms you are having.

1)Too much N/nutrients in the soil. Im not thinking this is it, actually I think you need more N and that is causing the yellowing. I believe there are actually 2 issues at hand here, and the yellowing is the need of nitrogen.

2) Manganese deficiency. Exact same symptoms as what you are having, to the T with curled leaves and all. However read 3 before making any opinions since I believe you are using quality soil, and decent food I dont really think this is the deal at all. Plus you usually dont end up with this issue until late in the game.

3) PH too low in the soil causing the plant to stop accepting Manganese. This is it. I would bet money on it. I think you have a good supply of nutes, ,good soil and good looking ladies with no real signs of crisis. I think that what you are seeing is the plant having a hard time digesting the meal so to say. So if you can check the PH in the soil and get back to me.


Good day friend, we will get through this!!
-G

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Thats exactly what I think the issues are and what I would do to begin to solve them.
I think that the lack of nitrogen is the biggest issue, plants need lots of N to grow.

Lookin decent friend. Are the problematic leaves the same leaves as before? Has the problem ceased to spread? If the issue has stopped spreading I would say things are looking GREAT! Once leaves go yellow they dont usually go back, so no worries there. All of your new growth looks healthy, and I think the color of the light is making things look a little rougher then they really are.

Im proud!


I still think that you are going to get the weight I originally suggested,if not better- even with the short lived snafu. You've got plenty of 5"-6" buds forming, and the real density has yet to come. Your a little over half way there, but the rest of the ride is getting fatter, not taller. I feel confident that my original diagnosis all the way to this point have been spot on and I am happy to see you getting results!! Congrats man, rub it in all those other first timers faces!!

Do you see the "bush" tendancy rather then tree? Thats what I was talking about a couple months ago. You did it right, better then most actually. Now look at what you've got to show for it!!!

I really think you are going to be happy!!
Have a good day friend,
-G

glyphen said:

Are the problematic leaves the same leaves as before? Has the problem ceased to spread? If the issue has stopped spreading I would say things are looking GREAT! Once leaves go yellow they dont usually go back, so no worries there. All of your new growth looks healthy, and I think the color of the light is making things look a little rougher then they really are. -G

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You know how critical of things I can be, and that having been said I will assure you that I can clearly see that things have stabilized. I have not really pulled yellow leaves off, since I believe if there are no value left in them for the plant, they will drop off on their own. But overwhelming the majority of the yellow leaves are on that plant in the middle, and ironically that plant has the thickest, dense-est buds of all on it. Three of the other plants have very few yellow leaves, and the one I shot top-down has absolutely beautiful leaves with almost NO yellow leaves. And all five of these plants have been treated in the very same way. I wonder if some of what is happening is simply the genetics of each individual plant.

Definitely, the HPS yellow light makes them look far more "rough" than they really are. I am pleased and think they are pretty happy now. I would like to see more filling in of the colas on the other plants though. Those other plants look healthier, but their buds are noticably thinner than that rough-looking plant in the center.

Looking pretty good here to me!

Woodstockfan said:

Looking pretty good here to me!

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Ya they'll make it!

Woodstockfan said:

But overwhelming the majority of the yellow leaves are on that plant in the middle, and ironically that plant has the thickest, dense-est buds of all on it.

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Is it possible for the buds to be taking all the nutes and energy thus causing the leafs to be essentially starved?

Check it out:

Here are final pics of my harvest. I cannot complain at all about this my first-ever grow. I dried everything to 30 percent of wet weight, then jarred it up.

Total yield from my five ladies 19.6 ounces. I had a solid 5 ounces of Colas. Middle grade buds were another 5 ounces. The balance were all those low-lying popcorn buds.

So, in the end I have over a pound of herb. Not bad.

I want to express thanks to everyone who assisted me thru this. Especially Glyphen and Sleepy who saw me through. Glyphen: you are a class act and I will miss you, but I understand my good friend. Sleepy, you are "breathing down my neck" with your grows.

This officially ends my thread. Warmest Regards to all, and thanks RIU!!