Abortion.

Harrekin said:

So a person can never change their views without being a hypocrite? That's bullshit, if the person is pro-life, has an abortion and still preaches anti-abortion then they are a hypocrit.

If a pro-life person has an abortion and then becomes pro-life they are not a hypocrite, they simply changed their view.

Click to expand...

Hypocrisy
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform;

I suppose we all have different opinions of what we hold to be hypocritical. I read this definition and it affirms my beliefs on this matter. You may think otherwise. S'all good.

I can't change my mind on that, cos if I agree with you then I'm a hypocrite by your very definition, lol

EDIT: Shit I read the quote I wrote in your last post, the last part of it is supposed to say if a pro-life person has an abortion and becomes pro-choice they're not a hypocrite they just changed their view...sorry for the confusion!

Harrekin said:

So a person can never change their views without being a hypocrite? That's bullshit, if the person is pro-life, has an abortion and still preaches anti-abortion then they are a hypocrit.

If a pro-life person has an abortion and then becomes pro-life they are not a hypocrite, they simply changed their view.

Click to expand...

To be a hypocrite you have to DO something. You can change your mind on lots of things and not be a hypocrite, it's called changing opinions based on new and convincing evidence.

But;

Specifically preaching against doing an action, and then performing that action yourself, is hypocritical. Preaching against gay rights and then having gay sex is hypocritical. Protesting a seal hunt, and then participating in the seal hunt is hypocritical. Protesting abortion, and then having an abortion is hypocritical. It stops being hypocritical when you stop holding a view against "something" while performing that "something".

Just "changing a belief" is the tip of the iceberg. You're absolutely right, views change as we learn and get older; but specifically denouncing act xyz, and then performing xyz is the basic definition of hypocrisy. So, if after the abortion you became pro-choice you would STOP being hypocritical, but until that point where you drop the dissonant view, you'd still be a hypocrite.

I was responsible for a couple back in the day. Just gave the girl $ and headed off to a bar. It wasn't until I got a girl pregnant again, and saw an ultrasound, that the reality hit me. That wasn't some blog of tissue that was sucking her thumb. That was *obviously* a human being. NOT, btw, "part of the woman's body". So I didn't pay the $...and 21 years later I thank God every day for that when I see my beautiful daughter's face in the morning. If people were required to look at an ultrasound first, abortions would be very very rare. AFA rape victims...I heard a speaker one time...dude's mother was raped by a black man. (I mention color because, to many people, that would make the mother's choice even more incredulous). The mother was anti-abortion, and she kept the baby...who turned out to be an in-demand anti-abortion speaker. It wasn't *his* fault his "father" was an a-hole, so why should he have gotten the death penalty?

Hepheastus420 said:

I get what you're saying, I'm just anti-abortion. I wasn't saying anything bad to you, I respect you and your decision. I'm just saying if it was up to me the only abortion that would be legal is for rape victims. I mean if you have sex deal with the consequences, or there is always adoption. But again that's all in my own opinion, no disrespect your way dude, .

Click to expand...

Beefbisquit said:

To be a hypocrite you have to DO something. You can change your mind on lots of things and not be a hypocrite, it's called changing opinions based on new and convincing evidence.

But;

Specifically preaching against doing an action, and then performing that action yourself, is hypocritical. Preaching against gay rights and then having gay sex is hypocritical. Protesting a seal hunt, and then participating in the seal hunt is hypocritical. Protesting abortion, and then having an abortion is hypocritical. It stops being hypocritical when you stop holding a view against "something" while performing that "something".

Just "changing a belief" is the tip of the iceberg. You're absolutely right, views change as we learn and get older; but specifically denouncing act xyz, and then performing xyz is the basic definition of hypocrisy. So, if after the abortion you became pro-choice you would STOP being hypocritical, but until that point where you drop the dissonant view, you'd still be a hypocrite.

Click to expand...

See what you say is all well and good until you actually find yourself in the situation of your missus being pregnant. As far as Im concerned you've no right to judge a person for changing their views when presented with the aforementioned scenario, as it is pretty lifechanging. If they have an abortion and continue to be pro-life then they are a total hypocrite, but if they suddenly become pro-choice then they're just "enlightened because of life experience".

Your example about the gay sex thing, a person can think they're straight, preach against gay rights, try it out for themselves and decide its what they actually like...are they a hypocrite? No they're not.

But...

If they tried it, liked it, decided they were gay but preached against gay rights then they're a hypocrite.

So as such, you really cant decide on abortion until your forced to make the choice for yourself. Even if you said it was wrong beforehand, its such a huge life event that if you changed you're mind then thats your choice, just as long as you dont continue to preach against it.

Realistically EVERYONE should be pro-choice, its noones right to tell someone else what to do. If you dont like it then dont do it, but dont expect other people to conform to your world view.

And without meaning to bring religion in, most of the pro-lifers are Christian or at least were raised in a demographic that is heavily influenced by Christianity...which I suppose is typical of such a religion, because most try force their shit down your throat daily.

Anyways, point is noone has the right to judge another person, especially not if they havnt been presented with that choice to make themselves.

Example in point, I could say I dont like rollercoasters, they're dangerous and scary and I dont agree with them because you could kill yourself on one...but if Iv never tried it, and try it and decide I was wrong and that I like it, am I a hypocrite? No Im sure as fuck not.

SoCaldrums said:

I was responsible for a couple back in the day. Just gave the girl $ and headed off to a bar. It wasn't until I got a girl pregnant again, and saw an ultrasound, that the reality hit me. That wasn't some blog of tissue that was sucking her thumb. That was *obviously* a human being. NOT, btw, "part of the woman's body". So I didn't pay the $...and 21 years later I thank God every day for that when I see my beautiful daughter's face in the morning. If people were required to look at an ultrasound first, abortions would be very very rare. AFA rape victims...I heard a speaker one time...dude's mother was raped by a black man. (I mention color because, to many people, that would make the mother's choice even more incredulous). The mother was anti-abortion, and she kept the baby...who turned out to be an in-demand anti-abortion speaker. It wasn't *his* fault his "father" was an a-hole, so why should he have gotten the death penalty?

Click to expand...

Awesome dude, I'm glad you kept your kid .
I'm not for abortion for rape victims. I just see how people could debate that it should be fair. Personally if I was a girl and was raped and got pregnant, I would keep the baby.
My first girlfriend that taught me everything about love, had a mom that was raped but she kept her. The mom kept the daughter and her daughter was my first girlfriend, if that clears it up .

Hepheastus420 said:

Awesome dude, I'm glad you kept your kid .
I'm not for abortion for rape victims. I just see how people could debate that it should be fair. Personally if I was a girl and was raped and got pregnant, I would keep the baby.
My first girlfriend that taught me everything about love, had a mom that was raped but she kept her. The mom kept the daughter and her daughter was my first girlfriend, if that clears it up .

Click to expand...

But youre neither a woman nor have you been placed in the scenario, so everything you say is just bullshit speculation. So how about keeping your purely specualtive opinion to yourself? You've a right to your opinion, but no right to proclaim it as fact publicly.

Harrekin said:

See what you say is all well and good until you actually find yourself in the situation of your missus being pregnant.

Click to expand...

Absolutely true. Extenuating circumstances do have a way of making you readjust your views.

The Cryptkeeper said:

Absolutely true. Extenuating circumstances do have a way of making you readjust your views.

Click to expand...

But you couldnt be classed as a hypocrite as long as you dont continue to preach your previous views, right? I think we're on the same page now, I just didnt express my point very well before

When you witness the cruelty that goes on around the world daily, it is easy to belive some would be better off not being here @ all.

Would you opt that all the sudden we had the cure for cancer? the cure to aging & death due to health issues? If humans had the ability to live several hundred years Today. We would have a cap, or laws regarding who could have kids or how many, due to the lack of rate of death. So would you would choose to be able to reproduce knowing you will pass on leaving children behind or would you choose to not have children & stick to yourself as long as possible. Not a win/win situation, I would rather have offspring & get over with the bs.

Life & Death is a must if you look @ it, who are we to say when it happens. It is ones individual choice, whether a mother aborts a child @ one month or dumping it in the trash @ 1 day old. It is going to happen, we are not perfect.. . cause if we were.. 90% of us would have been "Aborted" a LOOONNGGGG time ago.

RawBudzski said:

When you witness the cruelty that goes on around the world daily, it is easy to belive some would be better off not being here @ all.

Would you opt that all the sudden we had the cure for cancer? the cure to aging & death due to health issues? If humans had the ability to live several hundred years Today. We would have a cap, or laws regarding who could have kids or how many, due to the lack of rate of death. So would you would choose to be able to reproduce knowing you will pass on leaving children behind or would you choose to not have children & stick to yourself as long as possible. Not a win/win situation, I would rather have offspring & get over with the bs.

Life & Death is a must if you look @ it, who are we to say when it happens. It is ones individual choice, whether a mother aborts a child @ one month or dumping it in the trash @ 1 day old. It is going to happen, we are not perfect.. . cause if we were.. 90% of us would have been "Aborted" a LOOONNGGGG time ago.

Click to expand...

Most of us were planned dude, why would we have been aborted?

"Most" of us are planned?

Ehh.. I think you are being a little optimistic.


I would say "Most" of us are a plesant surprise @ the most. <3

RawBudzski said:

"Most" of us are planned?

Ehh.. I think you are being a little optimistic.


I would say "Most" of us are a plesant surprise @ the most. <3

Click to expand...

Well I think you're being a little bit speculative, so we call it quits?

Harrekin said:

But youre neither a woman nor have you been placed in the scenario, so everything you say is just bullshit speculation. So how about keeping your purely specualtive opinion to yourself? You've a right to your opinion, but no right to proclaim it as fact publicly.

Click to expand...

Where the fuck did I say anything was fact? Learn to read. Besides I'm gonna keep on saying my opinions. And my opinions aren't bullshit so fuck you buddy. I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. Even if I was placed in that situation I wouldn't puss out and ask for an abortion. I don't understand why you took the offensive side with me, unless you feel guilty about something. I didn't show anybody any disrespect so how about you keep your insulting opinions to yourself?

If only one person in the world wanted an abortion I would support them , pro-choice. So tired of others forcing there ideas on others, if your against don't have one. If for whatever reasons you feel it is right for you then all the power to you. All those folks whom actively try and stop the movement should worry about all the children already out there in terrible situations or starving in the world instead of folks whom want one less to be brought into it.

I always think of the child sacrifices of Ba'al when I think of the mass abortion epidemic. There may, might , maybe be some justifyable cases. But to me it is mostly the same as placing a child in the fiery arms of an alter.....

Hepheastus420 said:

Where the fuck did I say anything was fact? Learn to read. Besides I'm gonna keep on saying my opinions. And my opinions aren't bullshit so fuck you buddy. I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. Even if I was placed in that situation I wouldn't puss out and ask for an abortion. I don't understand why you took the offensive side with me, unless you feel guilty about something. I didn't show anybody any disrespect so how about you keep your insulting opinions to yourself?

Click to expand...

You keep saying what you "would do" as if you've some kinda moral high ground on the situation, when in reality you havnt a fucking clue how you'd react.
So people who have an abortion "puss out" do they? Iv never been with a girl that had one, nor would I expect a girl to or not, because in reality I dont know the practicalities or the situation we'd be in, so I keep my fucking opinions to myself and let other people make the choice for themselves and not act as if Iv some kind of authority on it.

(And I come from a country where its illegal and frowned upon, yet Im more compassionate and understanding than you, funny that...)

Harrekin said:

You keep saying what you "would do" as if you've some kinda moral high ground on the situation, when in reality you havnt a fucking clue how you'd react.
So people who have an abortion "puss out" do they? Iv never been with a girl that had one, nor would I expect a girl to or not, because in reality I dont know the practicalities or the situation we'd be in, so I keep my fucking opinions to myself and let other people make the choice for themselves and not act as if Iv some kind of authority on it.

(And I come from a country where its illegal and frowned upon, yet Im more compassionate and understanding than you, funny that...)

Click to expand...

Well Said old Chap!!!

splifchris said:

Well Said old Chap!!!

Click to expand...

Underthelight said:

If only one person in the world wanted an abortion I would support them , pro-choice. So tired of others forcing there ideas on others, if your against don't have one. If for whatever reasons you feel it is right for you then all the power to you. All those folks whom actively try and stop the movement should worry about all the children already out there in terrible situations or starving in the world instead of folks whom want one less to be brought into it.

Click to expand...

It wouldn't be righ to kill the starving kids now would it? Sorry for being a smartass, but (to me at least) we think of the fetus as a living thing so I personally think you're ending that by having a baby. No instead the person should be thinking before sex of all the starving kids and think of the consequences first. I mean sex is good but there's consequences.

Also I really don't know why there's starving kids. America consumes so much extra food is unbelievable and all the food restaurants throw out is just stupid and mean to not give it to those kids. If people really did want to change the world it would have been changed.

But anyways those starving kids shouldn't be a factor in your decision to have an abortion...........IMO.