A thread to honor the memory of the abolitionist John Brown.

[UncleBuck]

was the matter at issue the % of slaveholders in the south, or the % of slaveholders in one or two deviant states?

it certainly wasn't the # of slaves in a particular aberrant state.

the stooge be thee, not me.

do you need me to post the secession papers again? that discusses the matter pretty thoroughly.

slavery listed right at the top.

 

[kinetic]

was the matter at issue the % of slaveholders in the south, or the % of slaveholders in one or two deviant states?

it certainly wasn't the # of slaves in a particular aberrant state.

the stooge be thee, not me.

You argument was implying that there were not many slaves, that few owned them. You put up numbers like 1/4, I put up numbers like 400,000 to put more of a realistic view on it, and that was just one state.

A few deviant states indeed, deviant enough to try and form their own nation, and they got spanked for it. The south is still bitter over it. People aren't property to be raped and beaten at the will of their owner. It's morally repugnent.

 

[UncleBuck]

kynes doesn't think it's repugnant, he's still ambivalent. he thinks freeing the slaves (or, as he calls them, low cost farm machinery) "may have been" the right thing to do. said so in this very thread.

dude is really embracing his racism nowadays, not even trying to hide it with euphemisms like "european cultural superiority" anymore.

 

[MidwesternGro]

slavery was the prime cause. the seceding states even said so. listed it right up front as the very first reason in their secession papers.

Dr Kynes is right and the states that did the seceding are wrong about why they seceded, just like how he is more knowledgeable about climate change than scientists at NASA. LOL!!!

 

[UncleBuck]

Dr Kynes is right and the states that did the seceding are wrong about why they seceded, just like how he is more knowledgeable about climate change than scientists at NASA. LOL!!!

better to trust a racist with an obvious axe to grind rather than historical documents from the people who seceded.

 

[Dr Kynes]

You argument was implying that there were not many slaves, that few owned them. You put up numbers like 1/4, I put up numbers like 400,000 to put more of a realistic view on it, and that was just one state.

A few deviant states indeed, deviant enough to try and form their own nation, and they got spanked for it. The south is still bitter over it. People aren't property to be raped and beaten at the will of their owner. It's morally repugnent.

BUCKY claimed 1/4 of the households in the south owned slaves, which i thought sounded a little high, but hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day

i simply cited his claim and accepted his number (which he seemed to think was really shockingly high) you then began finestoning the (apparently accurate) "Bucknumbers" to try to make them seem bigger than they were and to move your goalposts about.

the south may well be quit of slavery, but they are still saddled with northern domination, a withering economy, and the constant insults of people like you.

 

[UncleBuck]

BUCKY claimed 1/4 of the households in the south owned slaves, which i thought sounded a little high, but hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day

i simply cited his claim and accepted his number (which he seemed to think was really shockingly high) you then began finestoning the (apparently accurate) "Bucknumbers" to try to make them seem bigger than they were and to move your goalposts about.

the south may well be quit of slavery, but they are still saddled with northern domination, a withering economy, and the constant insults of people like you.

kinetic posted actual numbers from the US census. stop your fucking crying, cupcake.

 

[MidwesternGro]

Let's not forgot that the South didn't want slaves to be free because they did not want them to eventually vote.

1860 Population Distribution of the the Eleven Future Confederate States

WHITE SLAVE FREE BLACK ** TOTAL
ALABAMA 526,271 (54.6%) 435,080 (45.1%) 2,690 (0.3%) 964,041
ARKANSAS 324,143 (74.4%) 111,115 (25.5%) 144 (0.1%) 435,402
FLORIDA 77,747 (55.4%) 61,745 (44.0%) 932 (0.7%) 140,424
GEORGIA 591,550 (56.0%) 462,198 (43.7%) 3,500 (0.3%) 1,057,248
LOUISIANA 357,456 (50.5%) 331,726 (46.9%) 18,647 (2.6%) 707, 829
MISSISSIPPI 353,899 (44.7%) 436,631 (55.2%) 773 (0.1%) 791,303
N CAROLINA 629,942 (63.5%) 331,059 (33.4%) 30,463 (3.1%) 991,464
S CAROLINA 291,300 (41.4%) 402,406 (57.2%) 9,914 (1.4%) 703,620
TENNESSEE 826,722 (74.5%) 275,719 (24.9%) 7,300 (0.7%) 1,109,741
TEXAS 420,891 (69.7%) 182,566 (30.2%) 355 (0.1%) 603,812
VIRGINIA 1,047,299 (65.6%) 490,865 (30.8%) 58,042 (3.6%) 1,596,206
TOTAL 5,447,220 (59.9%) 3,521,110 (38.7%) 132,760 (1.5%) 9,101,090


Hell, Southern whites still try to keep blacks from voting by demanding voter ID laws and making it harder to vote in cities. Just another reason to dislike racist rethuglicans.

 

[UncleBuck]

Let's not forgot that the South didn't want slaves to be free because they did not want them to eventually vote.

1860 Population Distribution of the the Eleven Future Confederate States

WHITE SLAVE FREE BLACK ** TOTAL
ALABAMA 526,271 (54.6%) 435,080 (45.1%) 2,690 (0.3%) 964,041
ARKANSAS 324,143 (74.4%) 111,115 (25.5%) 144 (0.1%) 435,402
FLORIDA 77,747 (55.4%) 61,745 (44.0%) 932 (0.7%) 140,424
GEORGIA 591,550 (56.0%) 462,198 (43.7%) 3,500 (0.3%) 1,057,248
LOUISIANA 357,456 (50.5%) 331,726 (46.9%) 18,647 (2.6%) 707, 829
MISSISSIPPI 353,899 (44.7%) 436,631 (55.2%) 773 (0.1%) 791,303
NORTH CAROLINA 629,942 (63.5%) 331,059 (33.4%) 30,463 (3.1%) 991,464
SOUTH CAROLINA 291,300 (41.4%) 402,406 (57.2%) 9,914 (1.4%) 703,620
TENNESSEE 826,722 (74.5%) 275,719 (24.9%) 7,300 (0.7%) 1,109,741
TEXAS 420,891 (69.7%) 182,566 (30.2%) 355 (0.1%) 603,812
VIRGINIA 1,047,299 (65.6%) 490,865 (30.8%) 58,042 (3.6%) 1,596,206
TOTAL 5,447,220 (59.9%) 3,521,110 (38.7%) 132,760 (1.5%) 9,101,090


Hell, Southern whites still try to keep blacks from voting by demanding voter ID laws and making it harder to vote in cities. Just another reason to dislike racist rethuglicans.

getting rid of preclearance was a mistake. those states earned preclearance and never earned their way out of it, like some places did.

 

[kinetic]

Not just NASA either, the NAOO, the Geological Society of Austalia, America and London. The Canadian Meterological and Oceangraphic Society, The European Federation of Geologists, Science Counsel of Japan, Russian Acadamy of Science, The Accadamia Del Lencei, Academia Des Sciences and many others.

 

[kinetic]

The South is being oppressed by northern domination or their republican ideology?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Dr Kynes is right and the states that did the seceding are wrong about why they seceded, just like how he is more knowledgeable about climate change than scientists at NASA. LOL!!!

the conditions that led to the secession and the eventual War Of Northern Aggression are not a secret, youre just too lazy to bother.

 

[UncleBuck]

they started fighting early in kansas because of tariffs.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The South is being oppressed by northern domination or their republican ideology?

if the western states gained the sort of domination the northeast enjoys, and imposed new rules that apportioned congressional seats based on a state's land area rather than population, imposed restrictions on highrise construction, gave incentives for suburban sprawl, while penalizing high density urban population expansion, imposed exorbitant tarrifs on agricultural products, and energy, while eliminating all subsidies for financial industries, the north would secede in short order.

the same sort of thing happened to the south.

 

[UncleBuck]

if the western states gained the sort of domination the northeast enjoys, and imposed new rules that apportioned congressional seats based on a state's land area rather than population, imposed restrictions on highrise construction, gave incentives for suburban sprawl, while penalizing high density urban population expansion, imposed exorbitant tarrifs on agricultural products, and energy, while eliminating all subsidies for financial industries, the north would secede in short order.

the same sort of thing happened to the south.

then why did they list slavery as the top reason?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Hell, Southern whites still try to keep blacks from voting by demanding voter ID laws and making it harder to vote in cities. Just another reason to dislike racist rethuglicans.

Voting is retarded.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

lol........why so many blacks in America, where only 5% of African slaves were sent? why so few in the Muslim World?
an African slave was lucky to be sent to Kentucky, and not Kuwait. Britain spent 20 million pounds sterling ending the slave trade, and freeing British slaves. your average slave-holder doesn't look like Col. Sanders, he looks like this.....

 

[Rob Roy]

he still aint no hero.

he is still a murderous thug who sought to change the system IN A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC by violence rather than persuasion.

his goal may have been ultimately right in hindsight but his ends did NOT justify his means.

of course "he has a place in history", he isnt a fictional character.

hitler, stalin, mussolini, pol pot, jack the ripper, emilio zapata, fidel castro, francisco franco, mohammed, ghengis khan and tammerlaine all have their place in history too, that doesnt mean they should be celebrated.

I disagree with the comparison of John Brown to the list of despots. He knew that one group of humans being held by force by others was wrong. He did something about it, most of the others were not motivated by freeing people, rather by some form of enslaving them.

 

[WORDZofWORDZCRAFT]

bahahahaha jack the ripper.