A quick look inside one of the flowering tents during weeks 8 and 9. in the foreground changing colors beautifully is the first of two Frozen black cherries. Flushed and resting. They're cruising to the finish line, not too far off. In the back the two big ones are both Superboof. Just have a very fruity banana funk. This contrasts wildly with the sour most definitely Cherry frozen black cherries.
4x4 with two MH SP3000
- Thread starter Dogg1
- Start date
cat shit
Well-Known Member
Stunning looking plant you have there, I just finished flowering aome autos with a ks 3000 in a 3/3 how would you rate the sp 3000 performance, I'm pretty happy with the ks was thinking about getting g another or a sp 3000. Damn that's a nice looking cola congrats!
Attachments
I've got four different sp3000s. In a 4x4 running them in an array, it's kind of tough to beat. I've tried tons of lights this and that and I really have settled on this for the last year. It consistently lights up my tent everywhere my plants are. I'm currently experimenting with some very large heavy weights just going into flowering.
All of the sp3000s ballasts are remote so temps are very cool in the tent, giving winter like performance colors in the middle of summer. Thanks for checking in. The Big timber is a super boof. Trouble-free plant from start to finish. Happy grows
Those autos look like they're putting on the weight
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Some of those pics look really green for that close to the end are you flushing your plants? Ideal is to have a little more fade with yellow/purples coming out; to green at cut and it will give rough smoke.
There's still two more left in the tent. They have quite a ways to go, actually did a late night transplant on them into 15 gallon containers. I was having pH problems.
In general, my plants need to show color before I'm comfortable taking them down. I have made the mistake before of overfeeding, I've made the mistake of not flushing, those are things you do once hopefully lol.
In general, my plants need to show color before I'm comfortable taking them down. I have made the mistake before of overfeeding, I've made the mistake of not flushing, those are things you do once hopefully lol.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
I thought you had a week or a few days left, my appologiea
we also struggle a bit with our coco; our grow style makes for intense light and nutes mid flower but tapering off is always an issue; not to soon nor too late. If anything you continue high light intensity; more than nute runoff we look at fade; if its "fall" you can chopp.Yeah it seems like with Coco the bigger the pot the better on that one and horticultural lime will be your friend lol. I tried to upload a picture of the green plants in the background of the previously posted pics, but I think the res is a little too high on them. But they're my largest monsters yet going into flowerI thought you had a week or a few days left, my appologiea
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Not sure i agree. With coco, imo, youre better off with a perfect size pot; not too big not too small. A big pot with a small plant will easily get hot with nutes and mess with your plant. We do 3 gallons for 4 oz plants and try to match it up like this so watering will be every 2 days, max everyday, at the peak of watering needs, midlate flower.
Also if youre water restricted it helps not having anything too big when its time for flush. Were on rainwater and had water restrictions in all our area; we were shitting ourselves looking at our stores until it finally started raining. It seems to be the way it works in Spain, everything looks absolutely f-ed on all fronts and the God decides to smile and take good care of us.
Last edited:
I would not get the new SP 3000. It's a very different design than the one that the OP has (I have one from 2021) and the PPFD map on the new light is "unusual".
Here's the PPFD map from the 202 model (link to light test is here)
Here's the PPFD map from the new model (original here)
The new light puts out a lot of light (the PPFD map above has a 24" hang height!) but it's got a hot spot in it that will make it hard to light a grow well.
I'm wrestling with the issue now where I want to replace my Growcraft flower light which is the 2020 model so it's a 5+ year old design. I looked at using the SP 3000R (a flower light that has the same PPFD map as the SP 3000) but the PPFD map is so uneven that the only way I would use the R light is to either get two of them or to use the R along with my 2020 SP 3000.
Here's the SP 3000 vs the R.
My other choice for 2' x 4' is the Vipar SE or G 4500, the difference is Bridgelux diodes in the G vs Samsung in the SE. The G puts out about 100 more µmol but has more blue in the spectrum than the SE.
The SE doesn't pump out quite as many photons but it's still excellent. The G4500 is just over $300 and, at that price, is a total gift. Interestingly, the 4500 is the same length and wattage as one of their bigger lights (the 5000) but with fewer light bars so it can fit in a 2' x 4'.
Why so much light?
Roughly speaking, yield increases with light levels (up to the light saturation point). I grow my plants at >1kµmol and I want to have that much light throughout the grow. However, that PPFD comes with heat and heat damages cannabinoids. The solution is a light that can deliver 1kµmol from a hang height that's high enough to not heat up the buds. And the best light I can find for that is the Vipar 4500.
(I'm also playing with using my Mars SP 3000 and plus the new SP 3000R. That has the high % of red photons that I want but that PPFD map just bugs me. I don't need a flower light for another few months so I've got time to figure out what to do.)
Based on the PPFD map for the SP 3000, I wouldn't go there. The scary thing is that PPFD maps smooth out as hang height increases so I suspect it's an absolute torch at 12 or 14". My suspicion is that the SP 3000 designed to be run at a very high hang height to light up racks of plants, conceptually similar to the use case for which HLG is designed.
I have two of the older models from 2022 and two of the newer models from last summer. Vastly different and entirely distinct beasts on their own. The reason I choose to light up the way I do is it allows me to focus on other areas by growing knowing that I have the photometrics covered.
As you suspected, the hanging height for an effective array of sp300s is quite high. I see light stress at 10 in over the top of the colas, that usually puts the canopy right in the 19 to 20 in recommended. I still get light stress on the tops.
My solution to that is to put the lights that I run in and array at about 25 in from the the middle of the canopy vertical to the fixture. That way I know I have the effective solid penetration zone I'm looking for regardless of how tall the plants are.
Having the lights in different tents... 4x4 has one each of the old model, new model and the difference between the two couldn't be any more clear. The older model has no infrared IR and it's a much warmer Spectra. Plants flower beautifully under this. Very similar to my experience with HPS lamps back in the day.
Not so much with the newer models, tons more stretch in the transition phase and they're going to need a lot more nitrogen all the way through flowering with the spectra being closer to 4k-5k. Plants are also much taller and greener all the way through, even with a forced flush. That 5000 Kelvin plant response on the chlorophilic level is quite obvious. Running one each in the tent as high as I can it gives me a nice environment to flower in.
I have another older one in a 2x4 that one I refer to as my lab as it's sort of a set it and forget it environment. That light is permanently stationed on the top of a 6'8 tent and doesn't move. Flowering is always amazing in that tent. The space gets filled wonderfully and buds are just sort of welcome the higher they climb, versus the 4x4 with very careful measurements having two fixtures in an array.
As you suspected, the hanging height for an effective array of sp300s is quite high. I see light stress at 10 in over the top of the colas, that usually puts the canopy right in the 19 to 20 in recommended. I still get light stress on the tops.
My solution to that is to put the lights that I run in and array at about 25 in from the the middle of the canopy vertical to the fixture. That way I know I have the effective solid penetration zone I'm looking for regardless of how tall the plants are.
Having the lights in different tents... 4x4 has one each of the old model, new model and the difference between the two couldn't be any more clear. The older model has no infrared IR and it's a much warmer Spectra. Plants flower beautifully under this. Very similar to my experience with HPS lamps back in the day.
Not so much with the newer models, tons more stretch in the transition phase and they're going to need a lot more nitrogen all the way through flowering with the spectra being closer to 4k-5k. Plants are also much taller and greener all the way through, even with a forced flush. That 5000 Kelvin plant response on the chlorophilic level is quite obvious. Running one each in the tent as high as I can it gives me a nice environment to flower in.
I have another older one in a 2x4 that one I refer to as my lab as it's sort of a set it and forget it environment. That light is permanently stationed on the top of a 6'8 tent and doesn't move. Flowering is always amazing in that tent. The space gets filled wonderfully and buds are just sort of welcome the higher they climb, versus the 4x4 with very careful measurements having two fixtures in an array.
I appreciate the info and it sounds like you're a very happy camper with the new lights.
I went back to the Mars page and, perhaps it was on the page and I didn't notice it before, but scrolling down the page, they have a good guide for helping customers figure out which light they should use. The SP 3000 is for supplemental lighting in greenhouse, the TSL is the budget light, and the FC-4000 is for "quality-focused home growers". Everyone's happy that way!
The spectrum is different between the V1 and V2 in that they've dropped the % of blue and upped the % of 660 (far red).
On the left is a screenshot of the YT review that cocoforcannabis did on the V1 model. On the right is the spectrum for the new model. The green and orange look to be about the same but in the V1 model, blue is about 75% as much as red but in the new model, it looks to be only about 50% as much blue as there is red. And, as much as I am glad I spent the $$ on separate veg and flower LED's, the spectrum on the new SP 3000 looks really really good.
To my way of thinking, two of those SP3000's in a 2' x 4' would be superb. Running a pair will eliminate the hot spot and at only $200 per light, they're dirt cheap. Yup, Mars just dropped the price today on the SP 3000 and they raised the price (only $20) on the R model!
Well, you must be rolling in (cannabis) clover with a your lights set up like that, working in pairs. Any chance you've got a lux meter and can post some PPFD values?
cat shit
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the very informative information I think I'll stick with the ks3000 I have 2 3/3s and in 1 I have e a ks3000 it fits perfectly in my other i have a xs2000 and a xs1500 which have done really well I like the ks because it has very good coverage through out the whole tent which is great because I like to do sog with same strain autos or 1 big photoperiod. I'd love to upgrade to a couple of 4×4 s but the wife says no. I found I had to keep the ks quite high with my last zkittles auto sog run I had it at 100 per cent at 20 inches with a ppfd of about 650 as the autos were not handling any closer. First pic is my veg 3/3 the rest is the zkittles under the ks if I had my enviroment dialed in I'd love to see what the ks is capable of hopefully I'll see next run. Also the ks puts out very little heat I'm really amazed even with the driver in the tent
Attachments
One of those in a 2x4 bangs at wall-to-wall. And you're looking at about a 20-in hanging height with the exception of a few colons tipping out. Better option if you weren't satisfied with the enormous par footprint would be a sp6500 hung at the very top, but then you're dealing with multiple hotspots. Definitely to each their own on the Mars lineup. They have a slot, a budget and a lamp for everybody. I failed to mention I also run ts1000s in a 2x4. A 2x2 pattern on a 1000 was great at about 15 in two of those 8 in apart and a 2x4 rock the hell out of the space. The flip side is it's a bit more heat. It's wonderful then we're able to choose from so many budget friendly performance options
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The R spectrum: i think its for greenhouse supplement, not for indoor. That is not healthy spectrum unless you add a lot of other light. No blue, i highly doubt that will make happy plants.
On mars par maps, have they even been confirmed?
Though with two you can get the spread right.
There is a small amount of blue in the spectrum and I suspect that it's enough to avoid issues that might crop up if there's not enough blue. Mars is in the business of making grow lights so I'm assuming that their lights won't cause that kind of problem.
Re. PPFD maps - I haven't seen anything but the numbers that Mars publishes have been pretty close to what third parties come up with. Their numbers for the 2020 SP3000 matched what cocoforcannabis came up and it matched my numbers, as well.
In this case, I definitely need to understand how it all work in my tent and I would test it in conjunction with my 2020 SP3000.
"Though with two you can get the spread right."
Agreed and I'd only have to run them at, what, 60% power?
On the other hand, that's 2 x $280 and is adding a second flamethrower worth an additional $280? After all, I do have a regular SP3000 that's "looking for work".