4x4 tent, 600w HPS, 1.5 month veg, autopots in scrog. How many plants?

Hi.

Im thinking of getting a 4x4 tent with autopots and 600w HPS. The way i have planned things is that 1.5 months of veg is optimal for reasons. I have mostly grown autos, so im unfimiliar with vegging times and how much i have time to train the plants in 1.5 months etc. Definitely not enough to train/grow monsters.

I also havent decided on whether to get the 19L airpot autopots or those 2x15L normal autopots in one unit. Will be using biotabs nutes.

How many do you guys think would be optimal for this setup?

Also what kind of approach to training would you recommend in this limited time? Not enough time for proper mainlining afaik.. Top once and LST? How many tops should i aim, for?

Im thinking vegging from seeds, but i was thinking of trying to find a good mother plant and start using clones at some point. Would that make much difference to this? I would imagine they would get bigger faster as i can root them first and then start the 1.5veg time, while for seeds it needs to start a bit earlier.


Thanks for any help

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Are you going to have two grow areas - one for veg and one for flower?

I have a 4''x4'x78" flower tent and I use a 1000w led, I veg for about 8 weeks in a 3x3x78 and train into a SCROG setup for flower. 4 plants.

My plants from veg, which I'll propagate through cloning, will be ready to go into the flower tent just after I harvest the current crop.




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Veg you can get 4 plants in a 3x3 tent with a decent 200w led or MH.

Top them until they take up the space in the tent.



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Hobbes said:

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Are you going to have two grow areas - one for veg and one for flower?

I have a 4''x4'x78" flower tent and I use a 1000w led, I veg for about 8 weeks in a 3x3x78 and train into a SCROG setup for flower.

My plants from veg, which I'll propagate through cloning, will be ready to go into the flower tent just after I harvest the current crop.

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Yea i would have a separate vegging area, but only time to veg in it for 1.5 months for reasons. Maybe 2 months max, if i vegged them a bit more under the scrog in flower tent(the4x4) also on top of the 2months veg in veg area. But i wouldrather just veg 1.5 months and put them straight to flowering, adjusting the plant amount on these other factors. Do you think 6 would be too much with 6 eeeks of veg? I could get those 3 of those 2x 15L autopot systems for the amount. Im a bit worried i wont be able to fill the net properly if i dont get enough plants. But i guess i could just trim more heavy handedly if i had one or two plants too many. Or would that be a bad idea?

do you think it would be best to veg at least a bit under the scrog before triggering 12/12?

i was thinking 315w cmh for vegging area

ps. 3 of those 2x15L autopots would also be cheaper than 5x 19L smartpot autopots. Not sure if the pot size matters much because autopots, not overly long veg and i was thinking of getting airdomes for the autopots also, which helps the roots

315 cmh or 400mh would be good for veg.

Just get 4x 15ltr or 18ltr autopots.

"Do you think 6 would be too much with 6 eeeks of veg? I could get those 3 of those 2x 15L autopot systems for the amount. Im a bit worried i wont be able to fill the net properly if i dont get enough plants. But i guess i could just trim more heavy handedly if i had one or two plants too many. Or would that be a bad idea?"

6 is an awkward number for a square tent. I run a bit different system than a real scrog, I don't weave I just use the netting for support. I think you'll be fine with 6 plants, as long as you're able to flip in week 5 if the growth is too vigorous.

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CannaOnerStar said:

Yea i would have a separate vegging area, but only time to veg in it for 1.5 months for reasons. Maybe 2 months max, if i vegged them a bit more under the scrog in flower tent(the4x4) also on top of the 2months veg in veg area. But i wouldrather just veg 1.5 months and put them straight to flowering, adjusting the plant amount on these other factors. Do you think 6 would be too much with 6 eeeks of veg? I could get those 3 of those 2x 15L autopot systems for the amount. Im a bit worried i wont be able to fill the net properly if i dont get enough plants. But i guess i could just trim more heavy handedly if i had one or two plants too many. Or would that be a bad idea?

do you think it would be best to veg at least a bit under the scrog before triggering 12/12?

i was thinking 315w cmh for vegging area

ps. 3 of those 2x15L autopots would also be cheaper than 5x 19L smartpot autopots. Not sure if the pot size matters much because autopots, not overly long veg and i was thinking of getting airdomes for the autopots also, which helps the roots

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Used to do 6 at a time in dirt fiber pots in 2 tents 1m x 1m,(5x5). 1 veg and 1 flower. It worked but it was packed. I would suggest no more than 4 full size plants in a 4x4 tent. Unless you switch up and do small 1 gallon autos or hempy buckets.

Hobbes said:

"Do you think 6 would be too much with 6 eeeks of veg? I could get those 3 of those 2x 15L autopot systems for the amount. Im a bit worried i wont be able to fill the net properly if i dont get enough plants. But i guess i could just trim more heavy handedly if i had one or two plants too many. Or would that be a bad idea?"

6 is an awkward number for a square tent. I run a bit different system than a real scrog, I don't weave I just use the netting for support. I think you'll be fine with 6 plants, as long as you're able to flip in week 5 if the growth is too vigorous.

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Okay thanks.

The issue is that i cant switch them to 12/12 before the previous plants finish and i need to estimate the time of vegging before i start to veg. But i cant use it all the time. I could flip to 12/12 while it would be in veg area, but wouldnt that make it hard to scrog properly, unless its not very long under 12/12?

Now that im thinking about it more 5 plants laid out like in dice would give much more even area for each plant than trying to cram 6 in there somehow.

What training approach would you recommend?

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I defoliate my plants at days 1 and 21 of flower, makes it easier to slide the scrog down over the plants.

Sorry, don't have any pictures with me.

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Hobbes said:

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I defoliate my plants at days 1 and 21 of flower, makes it easier to slide the scrog down over the plants.

Sorry, don't have any pictures with me.

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Okay. And no problem, im not complete newbie, even tho im new to photoperiodic plants(or well i have grown some that did not autoflower like 12+ years ago, but i took a long long break from the hobby and only started under a year ago again and have since only grown autos). I know how to defoliate

Hobbes said:

"Do you think 6 would be too much with 6 eeeks of veg? I could get those 3 of those 2x 15L autopot systems for the amount. Im a bit worried i wont be able to fill the net properly if i dont get enough plants. But i guess i could just trim more heavy handedly if i had one or two plants too many. Or would that be a bad idea?"

6 is an awkward number for a square tent.

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Too true, look at my signature.

Next time back to scrog with individual nets for each plant.

Far easier that ways because of accessibility whereas a 1 full scrog net, I've always ended up deep in flower cutting it out because I get get to them

Depending on the strains you grow, your flower period can be 8-12 weeks ... so a 6 week veg cycle from seed or clone would work either way.
Plant count is also strain dependent. If you have a a small indica strain 4 to 6 plants could be possible ... strains with a bigger profile will limit you to fewer plants. Until you have a grow or 2 under your belt you're on voyage of discovery.
If you have the room, you might consider a 5x5 if plant count is an issue ... the initial cost difference is minimal.
Also, whether it's a 4x4 or a 5x5 you should consider 1000w hps not 600w. Veg lighting isn't as critical and something like a Spider Farmer 2000 of a CMH 4200K light would be fine.

Bosgrower said:

Depending on the strains you grow, your flower period can be 8-12 weeks ... so a 6 week veg cycle from seed or clone would work either way.
Plant count is also strain dependent. If you have a a small indica strain 4 to 6 plants could be possible ... strains with a bigger profile will limit you to fewer plants. Until you have a grow or 2 under your belt you're on voyage of discovery.
If you have the room, you might consider a 5x5 if plant count is an issue ... the initial cost difference is minimal.
Also, whether it's a 4x4 or a 5x5 you should consider 1000w hps not 600w. Veg lighting isn't as critical and something like a Spider Farmer 2000 of a CMH 4200K light would be fine.

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Well i have 1x gorilla breath(gorilla glue x OGKB), 1x triple g(gelato x gorilla glue), 1x amherst sour diesel and some freakshows(regular) coming up now. Others than 2 freakshows have surfaced already. I have few more of those seeds i can use or get new seeds easily. But the freakshows i was thinking of growing a bit differently than others. I wasnt thinking of putting them in autopots, but flowering them separately from others first. Letting these first others veg big. Then take cuttings of them and flower them after the freakshows have at least showed males(and some pollen harvested in other room).

After that i was thinking of starting this perpetual grow in a way im talking about in this topic. i need to decide on things like how many autopots to buy etc. already, even tho i wont be properly running this thing yet. Also i might want to plant maybe one more fem seed asap. Complex shit behind the scenes But i need to prapare in many ways if i want to pull this off smoothly. And in order to prepare properly, i need a solid plan and pretty much the only thing notsolid about this anymore is the plant count

However all other factors except plant count are set in stone. It has many complex factors around it i cant be arsed to explain all that limit me in this way with veg time, tents and their lights etc. Or which i have already specd to be optimal, like autopots. 1000w HPS i can get, but i wont be able to cool it down enough, so 600w is better than 1kw + excess heat. Id rather get 600w HPS + 315w CMH in flowering tent than 1kw HPS. I do have a mars 2 hydro LED, which draws about 150w off the wall. I can use it to supplement at times, but likely not always. I might be able to borrow a 1kw HPS from a friend, which im sure would work better in the winter, but the summer is coming.. Maybe i get 1kw adjustable ballast instead of 600w and will run 1kw in the winter for this, im not sure. Depends what my friend has. But 600w is the aim for now. 1kw wont work for me right now

Im thinking of DIYing some COBs at some point for supplemental light, but i cant afford that right now.

KK26 said:

Too true, look at my signature.

Next time back to scrog with individual nets for each plant.

Far easier that ways because of accessibility whereas a 1 full scrog net, I've always ended up deep in flower cutting it out because I get get to them

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Thanks for this. Your grow gave me a good perspective on this. It seems pretty maxed out in there and you grow in soil/coco mix with 5 week veg. I think 6 weeks veg in with 5 plants in autopots would give similar results maybe?

Did your plants get that size due to some superior magical skills or do you think this is reasonable if i dont fuck up things too badly?

CannaOnerStar said:

Well i have 1x gorilla breath(gorilla glue x OGKB), 1x triple g(gelato x gorilla glue), 1x amherst sour diesel and some freakshows(regular) coming up now. ...

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Check the breeders sites or leafly.com or allbud.com for info on how the plants grow. It will give you a better idea of which strains will do best togeher as far as size, flower period, and nutrient requirements. You want to avoid having a heavy feeder and a lite feeder and on the same reservoir with autopots.

CannaOnerStar said:

... However all other factors except plant count are set in stone. It has many complex factors around it i cant be arsed to explain all that limit me in this way with veg time, tents and their lights etc.
Im thinking of DIYing some COBs at some point for supplemental light, but i cant afford that right now.

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Understandable ... we all have our space and budget issues. That said, I'm not lovin' the concept of a 600w hps and 315w 3100K CMH hanging side by side in a 4x4. I believe that you'll have the same heat issue as you would with the 1000w hps and end up with an inferior lighting solution. If you haven't bought the light yet, consider an air cooled 1000w hps that exhausts the heat from the bulb out of the tent if that works for your environment.

DIY LED solutions are great if you have the skills. You'll need to do some serious research when the time comes ... any advice I could offer today will be old news in a month or 2. There are a number of lighting threads here on RIU and you can feel free to message me when you're ready.

Bosgrower said:

Check the breeders sites or leafly.com or allbud.com for info on how the plants grow. It will give you a better idea of which strains will do best togeher as far as size, flower period, and nutrient requirements. You want to avoid having a heavy feeder and a lite feeder and on the same reservoir with autopots.



Understandable ... we all have our space and budget issues. That said, I'm not lovin' the concept of a 600w hps and 315w 3100K CMH hanging side by side in a 4x4. I believe that you'll have the same heat issue as you would with the 1000w hps and end up with an inferior lighting solution. If you haven't bought the light yet, consider an air cooled 1000w hps that exhausts the heat from the bulb out of the tent if that works for your environment.

DIY LED solutions are great if you have the skills. You'll need to do some serious research when the time comes ... any advice I could offer today will be old news in a month or 2. There are a number of lighting threads here on RIU and you can feel free to message me when you're ready.

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All of them are heavy yielders(about equal) and they dont do any sativa stretch type of thing. Sadly i cant find much info about how much they feed. But they will hopefully be able to get all nutes from biotabs and i dont have to worry about nutes, other than giving a pk-boost at some point and small stuff like vitamins in water tank etc. I can individually top feed some of them(i already have biobizz nutes from previous grows) if biotabs wont be able to provide enough nutes. Im not going to feed them from the reservoir using some chemical nutes. Biotabs are slow release nutes you put in soil to make a sort of supersoil that is supposed to last for the whole grow, they also have all bacteria and fungi covered and idea is to basically just give it was it one or two feeds of pk-boost that also has molasses to feed the microbial life at some point of flowering.

1kw HPS has worse photon to heat ratio than 600w HPS does, 315w is also way superior in this over any HPS. So 600w HPS + 315w CMH would run quite a bit cooler than 1kw. 600w HPS + 315w CMH heats more like 750-800w of HPS. 1kw i bet heats almost as much as 2x 600w. Put those 2x 600w in cooltubes, instead of 1kw in a cooltube and i bet they heat up the tent way less. But ofc if the same air runs to tent again and is not guided out properly, it will negate much of that.

People have been experimenting with HPS + CMH and the results seem to be superb. Giving the yield of HPS, but the trichomes of CMH. Sounds a bit too good to be true, but im sure there is at least some truth in the combo working

Yea i have a friend who has made a cob for him and i can easily pull it off with his help

My objection to mixing the hps and cmh is that the spectrum and micro moles will be unevenly distributed over the canopy. You’d be better off with the 2 600s dimmed a bit

FYI the diy tech has largely moved on from cobs to strips

CannaOnerStar said:

Thanks for this. Your grow gave me a good perspective on this. It seems pretty maxed out in there and you grow in soil/coco mix with 5 week veg. I think 6 weeks veg in with 5 plants in autopots would give similar results maybe?

Did your plants get that size due to some superior magical skills or do you think this is reasonable if i dont fuck up things too badly?

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Hiya pal.

Been growing a very long time and I am very familiar with the particular strains. I purposefully let these grow and they got me maxed out on height. Wanted to see what they would do untouched because I know the are great producers (Blackberry Gum much more so) due to previous grows with them.

I think 5 plants in Autopots with 6 weeks veg will fill your space out but maybe a little too much but worth a try and be prepared to fiddle around.

In my 1.2m x 1.2m tent the ideal scenario is 4 plants in 20ltr pots Soil/Coco with 5/6 weeks veg and the place is full but manageable.

BUT next run is hopefully going to be 5 x 20ltr pots each with an individual scrog net just to make it tricky but I'm certain it is much easier than the bursting tent I have now.

Anesia Seeds Blackberry Moonrocks, Sluricane and Barneys Farm Pink Kush.

Just thought I'd add this for reference
4 plants (Ken's Granddaddy Purple) in a 5x5 with Fluence Spydr 2i 630w no CO2 with Greenleaf Nutrients products in 4 gallon hempy buckets with Botanicare REady Grow Moisture coco mix over 2" of river rocks.
This is about 2 weeks before harvest.
I realize that the Fluence light is expensive ... but it's about as good as an LED fixture can get at this point in technology and the results seem comparable to a 1000w hps. Dry yield was 850-900g (with and without some larf)