2018 Abrogate Michigan Language Draft

LOL Ok. You can believe the opponents if you want to.

Abrogate has plenty of Organization and we don't need Millions to get on the ballot.

Once we get on the Ballot, then the money will come.

We have business on board. More every day.

If you dont believe it can happen, then for you, it ma not.

Timmahh said:

LOL Ok. You can believe the opponents if you want to.

Abrogate has plenty of Organization and we don't need Millions to get on the ballot.

Once we get on the Ballot, then the money will come.

We have business on board. More every day.

If you dont believe it can happen, then for you, it ma not.

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Are you for real? This has nothing to do with "believing the opponents". He raised many good points, like myself (who you chose to ignore), and this is how you respond? How do you expect anyone, especially the general public, to to take you seriously when you respond to questions and concerns in such a childish manner?

Second you have it backwards, you need the money to get on the ballot, not once it's already there - just like last time, I think you underestimate how hard petitioning is. If you have all of this organization, money and businesses on board, why do you choose to hide who's supporting you and how many signature collectors you have?

Are you for real?

Money is not needed to be on the ballot. Signatures are needed.

You still seem to think Government is your Daddy.

Sureshot2 said:

Are you for real? This has nothing to do with "believing the opponents". He raised many good points, like myself (who you chose to ignore), and this is how you respond? How do you expect anyone, especially the general public, to to take you seriously when you respond to questions and concerns in such a childish manner?

Second you have it backwards, you need the money to get on the ballot, not once it's already there - just like last time, I think you underestimate how hard petitioning is. If you have all of this organization, money and businesses on board, why do you choose to hide who's supporting you and how many signature collectors you have?

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We don't ignore you. But, You do sound just like the GOVERNMENT.
Who are you really working for?


Are you a joke? We hide Nothing.
Unlike MPP that hides the fact George Soros of Monsanto is their financial backer.

We are an open book and Literally, have nothing to hide.

Abrogate is about Ending Cannabis Prohibition, not legalizing it like Booze.

Alcohol is LEGAL right up until you're under arrest.

I suggest you take a step back to 2010 - 2016, and see who put Michigan into the mess it is in today.

I can guarantee you it is no one is the Abrogate Camp.


You are the only one Underestimating things.
Funny, Cannabis Community members always talk about Getting The Greed out of POT, then turn around and help the ones cutting out their Protected Greedy Legislation for themselves.

Timmahh said:

We don't ignore you. But, You do sound just like the GOVERNMENT.
Who are you really working for?


Are you a joke? We hide Nothing.
Unlike MPP that hides the fact George Soros of Monsanto is their financial backer.

We are an open book and Literally, have nothing to hide.

Abrogate is about Ending Cannabis Prohibition, not legalizing it like Booze.

Alcohol is LEGAL right up until you're under arrest.

I suggest you take a step back to 2010 - 2016, and see who put Michigan into the mess it is in today.

I can guarantee you it is no one is the Abrogate Camp.


You are the only one Underestimating things.
Funny, Cannabis Community members always talk about Getting The Greed out of POT, then turn around and help the ones cutting out their Protected Greedy Legislation for themselves.

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Congratulations you have officially made yourself look like a tinfoil hat wearing rambling nut job. Who am I working for?? Give me a break. This is why you failed last time, and why you will fail again. You come across as a fringe group run by nuts when you talk like that, good luck getting 400k+ signatures with that attitude.

Believe it or not but you actually do need money to get on the ballot. Considering you need CONSIDERABLY more signatures than the other initiative, how do you plan to collect these without paid signature collectors? With your thousands of unpaid collectors?

You actually haven't answered any of my previous questions, which were quite reasonable. How many collectors do you have, and which business are backng you? You haven't given any updates on how many signatures you've already collected, if you've started. Is this how you'll respond to journalists as well?

Timmahh said:

Funny, Cannabis Community members always talk about Getting The Greed out of POT, then turn around and help the ones cutting out their Protected Greedy Legislation for themselves.

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this i believe. talking to dispensary owners and people who supply them, they would stab you in the back just to make another dollar. short sighted people who think they'll never get caught... the prisons are full of them.

i admire you tim, but i follow reality. i support abrogate. i also support milegalize and crmla. i even supported mcc. i EVEN supported issue 3 in ohio.

but thats me. supporting any chance for marijuana reform. big step small step i dont care as long as we make some kind of forward progress.

tim : have you tried mailing petition sheets to people? or just passing them out? i tried to get milegalize to mail out petitions but they refused. could work, might not. dont know until someone tries.

i have more ideas.

ask these people in each town if they can gather signatures:
libraries/librarians
city clerks / city halls
secretary of state offices
elks/oddfellows/rotary/grange/knights of columbus/vfw and other similar clubs
churches, mosques, synagoges, etc
community and senior centers
craigslist

it cant hurt to ask. get a volunteer army to call everyone and anyone. in every county.
i asked my library, they said i had to be 100 feet away from the building to gather!

Sorry I've not been here much. So much happening over the last 28 days.

We have been getting all over the state with locations and people to be Hubs, a place to pick up, drop off and sign petitions, as well as picking up community leaders to be like a District or County Manager, someone who can help coordinate things, work the local areas, answer questions etc, as well as help petitioners and others in their general areas, and the county leaders do much the same at the county level.

If you set up a hub with petitions, be the person to contact that hub, and contact that hub every 2 weeks to check up if they need anything, answer questions or direct them one of the county leaders so we can answer any questions, setup a local meeting to bring local awareness to Abrogate and what it means beyond recreational pot.

We have the website updated at www.Abrogate.org where the Initiative can be read, one can sign up to Volunteer, Donate directly to the Official State Recognized Campaign, or find the new Interactive Map at the "Where to Sign" link at the upper right side of the page.

Here are the individual links if you would like to share them on your social medias.

Home Page
www.abrogate.org

Read the Language
www.abrogate.org/about-us/

Volunteer Here
www.abrogate.org/volunteer/

Please consider a donation
www.abrogate.org/donation/

Where To Sign
www.abrogate.org/sign


We have Dispensaries, Grow shops, Tobacco Shops, and even local Convenience stores across the state on aboard as Signature Stations and Hubs.

Yesterday, we added 2 of the largest Growing Stores in Michigan,
Clio Cultivation as a Petition Hub and full supporting business, and
Grow Green Mi in Whitmore Lake as a Petition Hub and full supporter as well.

We have over 70 and people and locations on our interactive map in the last ten days since it was created by supporter John VanSpronson, and more are being added every day.

Get the PDF Print out Petitions, let us know where you are at, and if you want to just petition for signatures or are willing to be a hub or county/community leader for Abrogate and be added on the map as we work to change history.

Abrogate Prohibition in Michigan
Grow Michigan's Future
Not Michigan's Prisons

Abrogate is Growing. Where are You?

I don't make up the story, I am just reading it out loud.

You may not care that Monsanto and George Soros is the money behind M.P.P., A.S.A., and G.W. Pharmaceuticals, as well as Scott's Lawn Care who now owns at least 3 major Marijuana Product companies, but most of it is public knowledge if you let your fingers do some walking and look beyond the smoke rising off that joint at the end of your fingers, it is clear for any "pothead" to see. Meanwhile, why most everyone else is begging for 'Compassion' from Government, Abrogate is Fixing the problem that is Government Authority over Cannabis in Michigan.

You can Do, or you can Get Done.


Ask anyone that has been paying attention for the last decade or two what the hell is going on, and they will confirm pretty much all I have detailed. Some of it is speculative sure, but it doesn't take a Plasma Physicist to read between the line of the writing on the wall.

Just look at what M.P.P. and A.S.A did in Ohio since 2014 for just one example.

passmethelid said:

this i believe. talking to dispensary owners and people who supply them, they would stab you in the back just to make another dollar. short sighted people who think they'll never get caught... the prisons are full of them.

i admire you tim, but i follow reality. i support abrogate. i also support milegalize and crmla. i even supported mcc. i EVEN supported issue 3 in ohio.

but thats me. supporting any chance for marijuana reform. big step small step i dont care as long as we make some kind of forward progress.

tim : have you tried mailing petition sheets to people? or just passing them out? i tried to get milegalize to mail out petitions but they refused. could work, might not. dont know until someone tries.

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I fully understand that. One day not so long ago, I felt the same way. Then I took a few steps back and took a look at the bigger picture.

Just as short sighted people are in prison, they also make a baby step, and just happen to step off a cliff!


More Words (Legislation) is not the answer, it is the problem. Thus more words by way of baby steps only create more problems and Legalized Recreational Alcohol and "Legal" Prescription Drugs are the two biggest killers next to the Stress Creating System we are put under.

We have been mailing petitions all over the state as well as dropping them off.

We have put out the PDF so people can Download it and Print them themselves or get them printed.

96Printing in Livonia is doing 500 petitions for $25.00 picked up, $2000 for 80.00 picked up.

Charlie Smith in Kazoo has printed 10,000 petitions and is sending them out. People can contact him and he can send some out as well. We are getting a great show of support. We know this issue is contentious, but there is only one solution to all of the problems. Change the Constitution with Full Repeal.

Anything less is just "Legalized Prohibition".


Just look around the country. Arrests are going up Everywhere over the last Decade, and it is not going to slow down under Legislated Marijuana like Booze.
Booze is legal right up until you are under arrest at over twice the rate of Pot.
Remember, LEO don't Make the laws, they just Enforce them.

On a last note, Do you TRUST Lansing with another Pot Law?

I TRUST that you and abrogate will fail again in 2018, like you did in 2016.

i trust that without MPP (which you hate so much) we would not have medical marijuana in michigan since 2009.

i trust that you will continue to hate on everyone and anyone.

prove me wrong tim!

You can Trust what ever you like.
However, we all lose out if you are correct.

I don't HATE MPP, they are just a Tool of those that have pushed Prohibition for 80 years.
See, you presume too much bad info about me, Abrogate, and the depth of the situation the entire state if facing.

In Fact, MPP is driving almost as many people to Abrogate as Mi Legislators are.

So I don't hate them. They are a tool, and I will use them just the same.

Now the difference is Abrogate is just positioned itself to pick up all the distractions.
Lets not forget we are the Conservative Midwest, like Ohio who voted down the MPP/Legalized Pot Like Booze option.
We are not Liberal California or Colorado that is imploding due to untenable legislation, nor does Michigan want to Be those states, much to shagrin of a few in the Legalized Recreational Pot Like Booze camps.

Fact is passme, a very large number of people do not support MiLegalize or MPP. That is why they have to pay petitioners to get thier numbers.

You can help your enemy defeat yourself, or you can help defeat your enemy.

In this matter, the Enemy is more bad legislation called a baby step. I'll remind you, Recreational Alcohol is "LEGAL" right up until you are put under arrest for it (public intoxication anybody? Beuller? Beuller?).

Question? Why do people want MORE Government in Pot. Hasn't the last 80 years been enough Evidence the Government can NOT DO POT LAWS?

www.abrogate.org

Timmahh said:

Fact is passme, a very large number of people do not support MiLegalize or MPP. That is why they have to pay petitioners to get thier numbers.

In this matter, the Enemy is more bad legislation called a baby step. I'll remind you, Recreational Alcohol is "LEGAL" right up until you are put under arrest for it (public intoxication anybody? Beuller? Beuller?).

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Showing your ignorance once again. If a "very large" number of people do not support MMMP, explain to me how it passed on a ballot with 63% in favor? Last a checked that's a significant majority right there. And that was almost 10 years ago when public support was much lower in general.

On your second point your just spewing nonsense. No one except alcoholics thinks public intoxication should be without penalty. Those are very reasonable rules, and part of being an adult and a productive citizen is knowing how to act like one and not getting sloshed in public park.

Sureshot2 said:

Showing your ignorance once again. If a "very large" number of people do not support MMMP, explain to me how it passed on a ballot with 63% in favor? Last a checked that's a significant majority right there. And that was almost 10 years ago when public support was much lower in general.

On your second point your just spewing nonsense. No one except alcoholics thinks public intoxication should be without penalty. Those are very reasonable rules, and part of being an adult and a productive citizen is knowing how to act like one and not getting sloshed in public park.

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MMP and mmmp are two totally different things. MMP is a group wanting to put cannabis control into the hands of corporations..mmmp is a medical program.

pergamum362 said:

MMP and mmmp are two totally different things. MMP is a group wanting to put cannabis control into the hands of corporations..mmmp is a medical program.

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My bad, misread it as MMP not MPP, the point still stands though. That said, I still disagree, and most disagree with you as well. The majority of Americans want programs that will generate tax revenue and business - only a small fraction of people want it completely decriminalized. (not that this is a bad thing, its just unrealistic). You don't need to get votes from people using cannabis, you need to be able to convince people who don't use cannabis to vote for this stuff.

Abrogate is not something most will get behind, and is a very hard sell to those on the fence, or who don't use cannabis medicinally or recreational. When you tell them it will generate lots of tax money, reduce prison costs and still be safely in the hands of responsible adults, they are more likely to vote in favor even if they don't personally benefit.

MiLegalize/CRMLA don't need to pay petioners to get signatures because the people don't want it, but because petitioning is actually extremely hard work, and requires people to give up their jobs and free time. Getting enough signatures for any petition is very hard, regardless of the subject, and most campaigns nationwide are carried out by professional firms who are organized to get it done. This has nothing to do with people not wanting it in the hands of "evil corporations".

I love this forum but sometimes I think some people on here need to put down the pipe and get in touch with reality.

I'm often accused of hating lawyers and lobbyists also and especially by those who choose to somehow lionize them. Few of those individuals can intellectually differentiate between the symbiotic vs the parasitic nature of this game (aka lawfare/regulatory capture).

Regulatory capture is a form of government failure that occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or political concerns of special interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. When regulatory capture occurs, the interests of firms or political groups are prioritized over the interests of the public, leading to a net loss to society as a whole. Government agencies suffering regulatory capture are called "captured agencies". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Tim's "failure" in 2016 was clearly not an act of legal malpractice or due to ulterior $$$ motives, but the same cannot be said about all the lawyers and lobbyists involved with MI Legalize 2016 can it? Tim wasn't involved with selling MMFLA in the Lansing swamp at that same time he was sandbagging his petition was he? How is the fact that with all those lawyers involved with MI Legalize 2016 they somehow failed to respect (aka sandbagged) the six month signature limit precedence of law of which has stood my entire lifetime?

...i dont think the majoritu of americans want to pay more tax. We already pay too much tax. I think the majority of americans would prefer smaller governments, that would equate to less tax,less regulations,less laws and less governmemt departments..i.e the exact opposite of Milegalize,mmfla or any other proposed regulatory schemes involving any number of industrys.

Aside froM that, abrogate would not keep the industry from being regulated but it would go an extremely long way towards preventing regulatory capture...and help tens of thousands of individuals who have a petty possesion charge holding them up.