1st Grow!

skunkushybrid said:
In my world cfl's are shit... ergo, not 'real' lights.
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cfls absolutely are lights! I grew 4 plants in veg stage for over 3 months. I even started flowering with cfls. All 4 showed to be female under cfls only. Of course they require more light during flowering, so now they are under 400w hps. But I grew very green and healthy (one even showed sex in vegitative) under cfls.:blsmoke:
Check out my gallery. Those grow room pics show them the first day w/ a hps, they got that far on cfls.
 
How big were the plants after 3 months? That's a lot of veg' time for an indoor grow. If you vegged that plant under mh or hps you'd have cut your veg' time down to 4 weeks.

I repeat... in my world cfl's are shit. Not that I haven't used them, because I have... I'm actually selling my grow king cfl... I'm selling it because it's shit.
 
russ0r said:
I really cant say, i havent used MH or HPS for veg yet. ive seen many HPS vegged plants and they are too lanky, not many nodes for the height they get, etc. and mh is probobly good, my plants vegged as fast under cfl's and 1 cool white (blue spec) floro tube when i first started out. very tight nodes. I started 12/12 on them on the cfl's a week before i got my hps and switched.
Here's a pic from 1 minute ago, doing quite well.



Knowm grew a grapefruit i believe, i forgot the total yield, it was a very good yield, and i believe there was 1 17 gram bud. using 8 42 watt cfl's.. im not saying they are the best, i'm saying they are a very useful alternative for someone who cant afford to go buy a HPS or vent it's heat.
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I've got a grapefruit grow on as we speak. HPS DOES NOT cause lanky, weak plants, cfl's do that. Mh and HPS lights are cheap. If you are going to flower beneath a HPS why not veg beneath it too?
 
take another look at my plants...

are they lanky and small?

nope.

and the hps didnt get them this way... the cfl's did.. all the hps did was stretch them out for flowering.
 
cfls are a great light for a stealth grow / low budget grow ive seen and had many a decent grow from them . hps / mh are better yes ,and are quite cheap now , but there big and produce a lot of heat therefore imo make them more expensive to run ,as you need a decent ventilation/cooling system ,but on the other hand they cut down veggging time etc .i think its down to the individual persons situation etc on which light they use .i definately wouldnt call cfls " shit" as they will grow plants, but if i had the space and correct ventilation i would go hps .
 
ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:
cfls are a great light for a stealth grow / low budget grow ive seen and had many a decent grow from them . hps / mh are better yes ,and are quite cheap now , but there big and produce a lot of heat therefore imo make them more expensive to run ,as you need a decent ventilation/cooling system ,but on the other hand they cut down veggging time etc
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How do HPS and MH systems cut down vegging time exactly? Contrary to popular belief, plants can only process so much light and any excess is simply wasted light and consequently wasted money. There are a number of factors that dictate how quickly a plant grows and light is only one of them, giving plants more light than they can process in vegetative state does not make them grow more quickly - it's simply wasted money.

Plants require about 2,500-3,000 lumens per square foot at the plant tops for 18 hours per day in vegetative state for normal growth, any more than this cannot be processed by the plant and is simply wasted light and wasted money. Compact flourescents such as the Envirolite blue range which output 12,000 lumens (125w) and 18,000 lumens (200w) provide more than enough light for healthy vegetative growth for a small number of plants.

Where this changes significantly is in flowering where the plant requires about 4 times the amount of light that it needs in vegetative growth at around 10,000 lumens per square foot at the plant tops. This is where the more powerful HPS systems are generally preferred due to thier much higher lumen outputs and correct light spectrums (orange/red) for flowering growth.
 
skunkushybrid said:
If you are going to flower beneath a HPS why not veg beneath it too?
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Because it doesn't output enough PAR watts in the correct light spectrum perhaps? What makes HPS systems so good for flowering also makes them poor for vegetative growth and this is why HPS systems *can* produce leggy plants if the HPS bulb your using doesn't output sufficient light in the blue spectrum.

Don't get confused because HPS systems output a lot of lumens that they're also good for vegetative growth, a lot of lumens in the wrong spectrum is going to produce worse results than less lumens in the right spectrum.
 
skunkushybrid said:
I repeat... in my world cfl's are shit. Not that I haven't used them, because I have... I'm actually selling my grow king cfl... I'm selling it because it's shit.
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you selected an appropriate CFL like a 200w Blue Envirolite and tried it for vegetative growth you wouldn't think all CFL's were rubbish. In fact you might be pleasantly surprised at how well they grow under Envirolites and equally pleased at the amount of money you save in the process.

To say that all CFL's are rubbish because you've used the wrong one is like saying all HPS bulbs are rubbish at vegetative growth, if you select the right HPS bulb you can get decent vegetative growth, but probably not as good as a MH or blue Envirolite.

It's horses for courses - you select the correct light for vegetative or flowering growth, few systems are optimum at both (some produce acceptable results at both ie conversion bulbs) due to the different light spectrums required.
 
My 2 cents...use what works for your personal situation. For me, it's a hobby and the product, for my own personal consumption. I've always used cfl's/floros, and have been happy with my results. I can, however, see the merit with using stronger lights, but both 1.) can't, and, 2.) don't. Bottom line is, we're all trying to achieve the same results here, so, as the saying goes..."To each, his own".
:joint: & :peace:

Nelson
 
Amen.. i was just defending CFL's as they were not being called real light.
 
I use mh for veg... on my grows I have 2 seperate areas for veg' and flower. But, if I was short of money I'd opt to use a hps all the way through. I used the grow king, at first for my freshly vegging clones, and then to bring the clones through themselves... then I just turned it off and carried on cloning under mh... I suppose it's about room... and circumstance...

I did point out that cfl's are shit in my world... and they are. I don't like them... and the 18 hour thing is as yet unproven... there isn't actually any real proof that plants only need 18 hours of light. What I do know is, that during veg', if the plant isn't getting enough light they will stretch and grow weak stems. Same if the light is too far away. I have vegged under hps without any of these problems.

I suppose it's a failing of mine, but when I imagine other people's grows I imagine them to be large. If you're growing a couple of plants, and you're short of room... you need a seperate vegging area... so I can see why the choice for cfl's... but in my world, they are shit.
 
skunkushybrid said:
How big were the plants after 3 months? That's a lot of veg' time for an indoor grow. If you vegged that plant under mh or hps you'd have cut your veg' time down to 4 weeks.

I repeat... in my world cfl's are shit. Not that I haven't used them, because I have... I'm actually selling my grow king cfl... I'm selling it because it's shit.
Click to expand...

After 3 months they are about one & a hlf feet to 2 feet tall. super stocky and strong stems, and nice green leaves. they veged longer than I would have liked, but I did it this way for lack of money. I tried to postpone flowering until I could get a hps. I was skeptical as this was my first grow if cfls were efficent enough, but I was very impressed with the outcome. I understand everyone has their preferance, and now that I have a ballast that switches to mh and hps, my next grow will be vegged under mh, so I will be able to compare and make my choice. I understand you have already made your comparison and choice, but for what I had to work with, it worked well.:blsmoke:
 
skunkushybrid said:
I did point out that cfl's are shit in my world... and they are. I don't like them... and the 18 hour thing is as yet unproven... there isn't actually any real proof that plants only need 18 hours of light. What I do know is, that during veg', if the plant isn't getting enough light they will stretch and grow weak stems. Same if the light is too far away. I have vegged under hps without any of these problems.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of substantive evidence that points to plants only requiring 18 hours of light for normal healthy growth, otherwise why does everyone only veg their plants under 18 hours of light instead of 24? Because they're not stupid and don't like to waste money, if plants grew quicker under 24 hours of light, people would do that instead - the fact is experience tells us they don't - so people save money on those extra 6 hours of light.

Plants will stretch and grow leggy under MH, HPS, CFL or any lighting system if the light isn't sufficient for their needs, to suggest they only do it under CFL's is ill-informed nonsense. The reason they do it under CFL's is because people using them don't understand plant lighting needs.

As I said earlier, it's horses for courses, you select whatever system is appropriate for what you want to do, but to rubbish *all* CFL's just because you've had bad experiences with one particular system and prefer the sledgehammer approach of a MH system, that wastes at least 50% of it's light and consequently costs twice as much to use as a more efficient CFL system is entirely your prerogative.

For vegetative growth of a small number of plants, a 200w blue Envirolite is very hard to beat in terms of its cost per lumen.
 
huh? if you read through my post PROPERLY you'll not find me saying that only cfl's cause stretching.

Also, plenty of people veg' on 24 hours. Evidence pointing to is not fact nor total proof. This is a theory. In fact, I veg for 18 hours... not because I believe the plants only have the capability to take in 18 hours of light but because I believe they need their sleep.

Also, I don't do small. So I'll repeat. IN MY WORLD (as I don't give a fuck about yours) CFL's are shit.

I believe I have explained myself adequately... in fact repeated myself several times... IN MY WORLD... get it?
 
babygro said:
How do HPS and MH systems cut down vegging time exactly? Contrary to popular belief, plants can only process so much light and any excess is simply wasted light and consequently wasted money. There are a number of factors that dictate how quickly a plant grows and light is only one of them, giving plants more light than they can process in vegetative state does not make them grow more quickly - it's simply wasted money.

Plants require about 2,500-3,000 lumens per square foot at the plant tops for 18 hours per day in vegetative state for normal growth, any more than this cannot be processed by the plant and is simply wasted light and wasted money. Compact flourescents such as the Envirolite blue range which output 12,000 lumens (125w) and 18,000 lumens (200w) provide more than enough light for healthy vegetative growth for a small number of plants.

Where this changes significantly is in flowering where the plant requires about 4 times the amount of light that it needs in vegetative growth at around 10,000 lumens per square foot at the plant tops. This is where the more powerful HPS systems are generally preferred due to thier much higher lumen outputs and correct light spectrums (orange/red) for flowering growth.
Click to expand...

YEAH IVE ALLWAYS CHALLENGED THE SCIENCE BEHIND THIS , I USE THE ENVROLITES TOO ,AND I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THEM . I ONLY SAY THEY CUT DOWN VEG TIME THROUGH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ,A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WHO GROWS USES HPS AND ON A FEW OCCASIONS OVER THE YEARS WE HAVE STARTED OFF VEGGING AT THE SAME TIME WITH THE SAME SEEDS AND HIS 600 HPS SEEMS TO VEG QUICKER THAN MY BLUE ENVIROS , I SEE THE SCIENCE IN WHAT UR SAYING BUT IN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IVE SEEN DIFFERENT ? IM ALL FOR CFLS AND UNLESS I MOVE HOUSE AND HAVE A BIGGER BETTER GROWING SPACE I DOUBT ILL EVER NEED HPS
 
skunkushybrid said:
huh? if you read through my post PROPERLY you'll not find me saying that only cfl's cause stretching.
Click to expand...
skunkushybrid said:
I've got a grapefruit grow on as we speak. HPS DOES NOT cause lanky, weak plants, cfl's do that.
Click to expand...
I would appear my reading skills are just fine, you however appear to have contradicted yourself somewhat.

skunkushybrid said:
Also, I don't do small. So I'll repeat. IN MY WORLD (as I don't give a fuck about yours) CFL's are shit.
Click to expand...

Your point about 'your world' has be made several times and understood several times, however, considering this board is an information resource used by a large number of people who are far more interested in reading 'balanced viewpoints' rather than what you do in 'your world' it's important that comments like 'CFL's are shit' are counter-balanced by alternative views.

As I've now said twice, it's horses for courses, what works for you might not work for someone else, but it's equally important to put both sides of a viewpoint and not just let one prevail, despite it being the 'right one for you'.
 
You pick a section of my post and ignore the follow up's. Where I explain what causes stretching... which is not enough light. Cfl's don't put out as much... so they NEED to be very close to the plants. Out of the three choices... mh, hps and cfl's... cfl's are most likely to cause stretching and weak stems.

I've never had a bad experience with cfl's... they work, but nowhere near as good as mh. My clones clone faster beneath mh, my plants veg faster... no bad experience, just experience.
 
babygro said:
I would appear my reading skills are just fine, you however appear to have contradicted yourself somewhat.



Your point about 'your world' has be made several times and understood several times, however, considering this board is an information resource used by a large number of people who are far more interested in reading 'balanced viewpoints' rather than what you do in 'your world' it's important that comments like 'CFL's are shit' are counter-balanced by alternative views.

As I've now said twice, it's horses for courses, what works for you might not work for someone else, but it's equally important to put both sides of a viewpoint and not just let one prevail, despite it being the 'right one for you'.
Click to expand...

Well said, babygro..I understand the logic.

Nelson
 
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