First harvest success. Second run progressing nicely
- Thread starter Techno Destructo
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Techno Destructo
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medidedicated
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With tent open thats a bit high. Dtw coco in fabirc pots can breathe and will always have good root pressure. So I can handle higher humidity. Soil can be poor level in oxygen rifjt after watering Id think. For example if youre in deep water cultur and your pump dies or doesnt add enough oxygen, the root pressure can increase and gutate in buds.
Thats not super factual just what I gather and asked AI which can sometimes be very accurate. I was putting bags around my pots for pests but it said it will increase root pressure and gutate and it was. So I removed them. It could also explain why my leafs had some issues on some of them at the time mixed with hot and dry environment.
But yea, a 3x3 will do great for absorbing that plants breath and rh and temps should be better. My 3x3 is the easiest to grow in heres a pic. Ive grown in it this my 4th run in it. Idk how dehueys do connected to tent but I see my best results doing traditional way, lung room. I just condition the room to what I want inside of tents.
I think its great to heat up a tent tho. And yea, your room is literally the same size as mine. Be prepared for heat issues unless your home ac is a monster. Ours sucks and cant get are northern home to 75F in summer it gets above that. Also just make note of my advice because of our similar setup, incase you start to upsize little by little.
I dont doubt you can speak for your self and say you wont upsize, upgrade, get deeper into this. But it happens to people often, its addicting and as soon as you become a heavy user if not already, some upsizing may naturally be wanted later. Even if I only smoked and not do dabs only, Id need to grow a good amount still.
Also because this is addicting to grow and you might actually be interested in some care giving. I am willing to to some degree. Looks like you got a window in there so yea try a portable ac if heat becomes an issue. My flower room is the most comfortable place to be in the home ground floor when its 90F out.
Thats not super factual just what I gather and asked AI which can sometimes be very accurate. I was putting bags around my pots for pests but it said it will increase root pressure and gutate and it was. So I removed them. It could also explain why my leafs had some issues on some of them at the time mixed with hot and dry environment.
But yea, a 3x3 will do great for absorbing that plants breath and rh and temps should be better. My 3x3 is the easiest to grow in heres a pic. Ive grown in it this my 4th run in it. Idk how dehueys do connected to tent but I see my best results doing traditional way, lung room. I just condition the room to what I want inside of tents.
I think its great to heat up a tent tho. And yea, your room is literally the same size as mine. Be prepared for heat issues unless your home ac is a monster. Ours sucks and cant get are northern home to 75F in summer it gets above that. Also just make note of my advice because of our similar setup, incase you start to upsize little by little.
I dont doubt you can speak for your self and say you wont upsize, upgrade, get deeper into this. But it happens to people often, its addicting and as soon as you become a heavy user if not already, some upsizing may naturally be wanted later. Even if I only smoked and not do dabs only, Id need to grow a good amount still.
Also because this is addicting to grow and you might actually be interested in some care giving. I am willing to to some degree. Looks like you got a window in there so yea try a portable ac if heat becomes an issue. My flower room is the most comfortable place to be in the home ground floor when its 90F out.
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medidedicated
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I started off saying the same thing lol. Unless you got genetics that yield over a pound in that tent its just not enough for a lot of people. I thought my first tent would be enough.
hostagecs
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Techno Destructo
Member
So what I’m thinking is 8-12 oz per harvest. I can dry in one tent, clean the grow tent, start next batch from seed, 6 weeks veg, whatever flower is for particular strain, give away 2-3 oz and then a new harvest before i run out of last harvest. Running 2 tents is kind of expensive but i have solar panels so electricity bills not even $200/month with 2 tents and keeping house 68F in 100F temps.
Also have 1 going outside if nothing goes wrong should give me very close to a pound if not more.
Also have 1 going outside if nothing goes wrong should give me very close to a pound if not more.
medidedicated
Well-Known Member
My bill is giving us anxiety lol. Good thing its just for summer. So 1 tent to grow, 1 to dry and 1 to start the next? How much do you consume in 5-6 months? Perpetuating can almost double your yield in same amount of time but see.. Getting deeper into this lol. Youd want to find a mother to clone so you can repeat your results.
Growing from seed is a gamble you could lose a whole grow to seeds from herming. Also yield will vary, but 8oz plants are pretty high yield already and grew several strains that didnt hit that. You could upsize to grow one large run or this small setup will have you continuous.
I have a feeling youre a moderate user and might be beyond the point of “Im just growing once for fun.” A gas generator for power outage will be benifitial. Being home constantly will be in order, most people that step away for so much as a week or 3 come back to dead or moldy plants.
Theres moving away from buying from store, then staying away from the store which will take a lot of planning. Lots of care and budgeting but its do able. I just have no life but finally somewhat do now so I have a reason to be home all the time. Never leave town.
Growing from seed is a gamble you could lose a whole grow to seeds from herming. Also yield will vary, but 8oz plants are pretty high yield already and grew several strains that didnt hit that. You could upsize to grow one large run or this small setup will have you continuous.
I have a feeling youre a moderate user and might be beyond the point of “Im just growing once for fun.” A gas generator for power outage will be benifitial. Being home constantly will be in order, most people that step away for so much as a week or 3 come back to dead or moldy plants.
Theres moving away from buying from store, then staying away from the store which will take a lot of planning. Lots of care and budgeting but its do able. I just have no life but finally somewhat do now so I have a reason to be home all the time. Never leave town.
Techno Destructo
Member
I have an integrated natural gas generator also lol. My first grow pulled 7 1/2 oz with 2 plants in a 2x4. That was not knowing what i was doing and threw away probably at least 1/2 oz larf. This one scrog may not be right bit it is going to produce if i dont blow it at the end.
Pulled my first harvest too early cuz trichomes look different under a grow light than they do on the table.
Trichomes looked cloudy under the light but after trimming they were clear. Rendering my white widow (3 1/2 oz) essentially worthless. Probably needed 2 more weeks.
The mimosa came out probably bargain shelf quality, definitely worked but felt like something was missing from the buzz.
Pulled my first harvest too early cuz trichomes look different under a grow light than they do on the table.
Trichomes looked cloudy under the light but after trimming they were clear. Rendering my white widow (3 1/2 oz) essentially worthless. Probably needed 2 more weeks.
The mimosa came out probably bargain shelf quality, definitely worked but felt like something was missing from the buzz.
Techno Destructo
Member
Also one of my best friends ive known for 20+ years bought a house 2 blocks away. If I leave town they can water if necessary lol.
Tried to set up a drip system but clogged after like 2nd use. So last 2 weeks been top watering with a can. The autopots dont seem to work after a certain point either. They stop wicking.
Tried to set up a drip system but clogged after like 2nd use. So last 2 weeks been top watering with a can. The autopots dont seem to work after a certain point either. They stop wicking.
hostagecs
Well-Known Member
yeah the wicks get clogged with nutes, you either gotta switch them or clean them i believe
If you raise the temperature of the tent that will increase VPD and it will also significantly increase photosynthesis. Are you supplementing CO2? With that high a level of CO2, you're getting a good boost in photosynthesis but increasing PPFD will give you yet another boost.
The SE 4500 is an excellent light and bar lights tend to run cooler than board lights, especially when taking into account how well they spread PPFD across the canopy. It's great that you've got two SF's in there but board lights are inherently warmer than bar lights and they also have a hot spot that most bar lights don't have. The Spider 4500 is my light of choice for a 2' x 4', BTW.
When did you buy your 4500//what is the wattage of your driver? I ask because Spider had a 430 watt model of the 4500 for a while and it generated >1500µmol of light with a very good PPFD map. If you have that model, that might explain the heat that you're getting from the light.
Based on your photo, you're venting into a room. Are you able to keep the temps in that room at a reasonable level?
Re. yield - with the setup you've got you should easily exceed 8-12 ounces in a 2' x 4'. The big issue is to take advantage of the CO2 and then keep your light levels >1k. CO2 by itself is good for ~30% and, if you turn up the "crop size" dial to 1200±, that's another ~25%.
Oh, yeh, temperature and CO2. Per the attached paper, you will get a pretty big boost in net photosynthesis by increasing your temperature. The graphic below is from the paper and it show net photosynthesis (from leaves) at varying levels of CO2 and at varying temperatures.
The boost to 1300±PPM is the big win and increasing temperature will give you yet another boost. This is not illustrating how yield increases, that's a different set of data but it does indicate how much more glucose your plants can generate if temps and CO2 are increased.
Re. yield - I refer to it as the "crop size" dial because, all other things being equal, that what it is. With your high level of CO2 and the fact that you're getting lotsa light in the tent now, you should be able to knock it out of the park.
Re. which light - the 4500's will max out at about 1200µmol but you're getting more than that in the center with 2 SF's. The issue with using 2 SF's with the plants that you've got is that the SF's don't have a very even PPFD map so, while there's a shitton of light in the center, PPFD falls off very rapidly as you move off center.
In contrast, the 4500 is not as high in the center but the light levels around the edges will be higher than they would be with the SF's. Does that check out with what you're seeing?
If that SF was a couple of inches shorter, you could do four in a tent.
I grow at >1k as well so I'm glad to see that you're feeding your plants well.
The SE 4500 is an excellent light and bar lights tend to run cooler than board lights, especially when taking into account how well they spread PPFD across the canopy. It's great that you've got two SF's in there but board lights are inherently warmer than bar lights and they also have a hot spot that most bar lights don't have. The Spider 4500 is my light of choice for a 2' x 4', BTW.
When did you buy your 4500//what is the wattage of your driver? I ask because Spider had a 430 watt model of the 4500 for a while and it generated >1500µmol of light with a very good PPFD map. If you have that model, that might explain the heat that you're getting from the light.
Based on your photo, you're venting into a room. Are you able to keep the temps in that room at a reasonable level?
Re. yield - with the setup you've got you should easily exceed 8-12 ounces in a 2' x 4'. The big issue is to take advantage of the CO2 and then keep your light levels >1k. CO2 by itself is good for ~30% and, if you turn up the "crop size" dial to 1200±, that's another ~25%.
Oh, yeh, temperature and CO2. Per the attached paper, you will get a pretty big boost in net photosynthesis by increasing your temperature. The graphic below is from the paper and it show net photosynthesis (from leaves) at varying levels of CO2 and at varying temperatures.
The boost to 1300±PPM is the big win and increasing temperature will give you yet another boost. This is not illustrating how yield increases, that's a different set of data but it does indicate how much more glucose your plants can generate if temps and CO2 are increased.
Re. yield - I refer to it as the "crop size" dial because, all other things being equal, that what it is. With your high level of CO2 and the fact that you're getting lotsa light in the tent now, you should be able to knock it out of the park.
Re. which light - the 4500's will max out at about 1200µmol but you're getting more than that in the center with 2 SF's. The issue with using 2 SF's with the plants that you've got is that the SF's don't have a very even PPFD map so, while there's a shitton of light in the center, PPFD falls off very rapidly as you move off center.
In contrast, the 4500 is not as high in the center but the light levels around the edges will be higher than they would be with the SF's. Does that check out with what you're seeing?
If that SF was a couple of inches shorter, you could do four in a tent.
I grow at >1k as well so I'm glad to see that you're feeding your plants well.
Techno Destructo
Member
It seems to me the 4500 is running much hotter at 95% than 2 2000 @ 60%. 2 2000’s @ 60% is also higher ppfd than the 4500 @ 95%.
I am considering a 3rd sf-2000 for the next run which i will put in a 3x3.
It is hard to compare the two side by side cuz the 4500 is over a mimosa i brought from outside seeds from a survival kit.
The 2 SF are above growers choice seeds and there is a clear difference in genetics.
The co2 is natural but drops off as the day goes on right now my CO2 is 550. I don’t supplement. I was running 1200 ish ppfd for a few weeks but thiught i saw some burn damage. I think i may turn it back up again for the last 10 days of flower.
I am considering a 3rd sf-2000 for the next run which i will put in a 3x3.
It is hard to compare the two side by side cuz the 4500 is over a mimosa i brought from outside seeds from a survival kit.
The 2 SF are above growers choice seeds and there is a clear difference in genetics.
The co2 is natural but drops off as the day goes on right now my CO2 is 550. I don’t supplement. I was running 1200 ish ppfd for a few weeks but thiught i saw some burn damage. I think i may turn it back up again for the last 10 days of flower.
Interesting about the heat. The driver for the 4500 is removable, right?
I see the set up in the first picture. It looks like the lights and the plants are really close to the same size. I think I see what's going on (helps to look closely).
Re. temps - latest research data is to the temp of the tops of the buds <=78° to minimize loss of secondary metabolites. Check out the "Crop steering" video on YouTube by Mitch Westmoreland. It's about 50 minutes and it's a superb summary of some of the work he did for his PhD.
You've got a good handle on lighting. Good to see. There are a lot of lights for the 2' x 4' and 4' x 4' but the 3' lights don't have the PPFD values or PPFD maps as do the other tent sizes. Dunno why but if you look at Spider, Mars, Migro (cough, cough), etc. that form factor just isn't up to the others. Your approach to "DIY" makes a lot of sense.
Interesting that you're seeing that. My understanding is that indicas and sativas have different light saturation points. Is that what you were seeing?
Got it. That's "human generated"! Heh, it all counts. Even at 550, you're getting a bump.
1200 in ambient is pretty high but you've got more CO2 than average so things should go fine as long as you're vigilant.
How are you measuring PPFD?
If you've got some photos and would like an opinion, I'm more than happy to give an opinion.
I will say that you're doing things right if you're dealing with light at the 1k mark. Well done.I grow in a 2' x 4' and use a variety of lights over the course of a grow and the highest I've run is 1150. My EC was, arguably, a bit low at 1.8 but once you go over 1kµmol, that's "playing above the rim".
If you do raise PPFD again, you'll want to revisit VPD and EC. With additional light coming in, the plant is generating more glucose ("food") so it will probably benefit from additional fertilizer ("vitamins and minerals") and the increased VPD will increase transpiration. Transpiration is how plants cool off but it also accounts for 90%, by mass, of nutrient uptake. For a lot of growers it doesn't "click" that all of those factors function in concert. I spent a few days with chatGPT refining my growing processes and that's when I learned that my EC was probably too low.
Re. VPD - just a reminder to measure leaf temperature offset as part of your VPD calculations. Fans blowing from underneath the plants can dramatically drop leaf temps, a good thing as long as it's done in moderation, of course.
The main light is a Growcraft X3 flower light with Spider Farmer Glow R80's to up the red %. The Mars SP 3000 (2020 model) is on a clothing rack because the colas on the front row of the plant were quite a bit lower than the center and back of the plant. The Mars was only at ~60 watts but it was enough to even things out. Off to the right is a little Vipar XS 1500 for the small plant on the right side of the tent.
A big issue is not just the PPFD in flower but it's vital to ramp PPFD ASAP/starting with day 1. I get my grows to 1k by about day 35 but cannabis can use that much light at the 3-4 week mark, assuming that the grow environment is sound. In my case, I haven't been giving my plants enough nutrients so they've taken a bit longer than optimal. If you're keen on getting the most from your plants, lots of light as early as possible is the ticket. Not that I have an opinion on that, of course!
Techno Destructo
Member
This is my second grow ever. This is what I am using as a reference point. Other than the DLI schedule because it seemed my plant could handle more than what was listed there.
I have had a hard time getting my EC above 1 unit my last 2 waterings. Watering before last got EC up to 2. Hand watering. But not getting nearly as much runoff as I was.
I have had a hard time getting my EC above 1 unit my last 2 waterings. Watering before last got EC up to 2. Hand watering. But not getting nearly as much runoff as I was.
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Techno Destructo
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The mimosa is the one struggling under the 4500 light, but it does look like it will make it to finish. My first grow was the same seed stock all grown indoors and was okay for a first attempt. Should have pulled it later pretty sure.
I added terpinator to the nutrient schedule and the mimosa from outside definitely has many many more trichomes than the first one I grew. The Gary Payton and grape stomper seem absolutely covered in trichomes to me.
Let me qualify that by among i know nothing. Bought the tent to start veggies early cuz short growing season and sister in law gave me some free seeds.
About 2 weeks into flower I was hooked. lol. Just want some quality flower that tastes good for personal and to dive to friends. Dispensary weed is trash now after the first couple years of it being legal. I think they cure 2 weeks and get it out the door.
I added terpinator to the nutrient schedule and the mimosa from outside definitely has many many more trichomes than the first one I grew. The Gary Payton and grape stomper seem absolutely covered in trichomes to me.
Let me qualify that by among i know nothing. Bought the tent to start veggies early cuz short growing season and sister in law gave me some free seeds.
About 2 weeks into flower I was hooked. lol. Just want some quality flower that tastes good for personal and to dive to friends. Dispensary weed is trash now after the first couple years of it being legal. I think they cure 2 weeks and get it out the door.
Best source I've found for VPD is here. Pulse was the first generation of VPD hardware that I used. Inkbird was next and I've settled on AC Infinity.
AC Infinity has an excellent IR gun because it can be calibrated and you can change the emissivity factor. The latter can make a small difference. Overall, VPD is really keeping things between the guardrails.
The second upload is just general info. You can't go wrong with those values but there's a very wide range between those temp and RH bands. I'm (was) a software engineer for 30+ years before which I was an artillery officer so I'm used to process and precision.
The growlightmeter.com graphic is complete garbage. I tested Photone years ago, when it was called "Korona", and it was pretty inaccurate but you can get accurate readings off of it if you're using a diffuser and it you hold the phone in the right position. To my thinking, I'd advise growers to get a lux meter because it's a light meter so, over time, I believe you will tend to get better results than if you're using a camera with a strip of paper over the lens. A lux meter is $25± and they're accurate to 5%±. There is some possibility for inaccuracy if you don't use the right conversion factor but I've written a document that provides some info on that and, overall, you can get as close as is needed.
OK, why did I call the GLM graphic garbage? My bias is that I'm a high light grower so ramping up slowly the way he recommends is just not my cup of tea but I understand the mindset that supports the slow ramp up and it works for a lot of people. Having said that, there's nothing anywhere that substantiates dropping PPFD when you go into flower.
Last time I checked, GLM had a link to another site to provide more information for what they were recommending but, when I clicked on the link, I got a 404-Page not found error.
There's scads of research re. light levels using LED's and many growers on this site are feeding their plants well but that means completely disregarding the silliness in what GLM.com has posted.
Interestingly, the folks at the website for autoflowers is firmly in the "600µmol is plenty for flowering". The information on Migro.com is also not evidence-based and that's strange because Shane, the owner of Migro, has interviewed Bugbee and is fully aware of how much light cannabis can use but his recommendations are, in many ways, simply not valid.
Virtually all of the cannabis sites use the "legacy light levels" of 300 in seedling, 300-600 in veg, and 600+ in flower. Those are not based on what the plant can used but are based on the light output from HID lights those being MH and CMH in veg and then HPS in flower.
HID is obsolete technology having been surpassed by LED's. The recommendations for light levels by the most popular vendors have, over about the past year, fully embraced what "the research" has been telling us for about a decade but habits and attitudes are sometimes hard to change.
Unfortunately, a lot of growers follow the guidance at GLM and end up getting a "modest" crop. If you search for my postings here and on another web site where I'm a member you'll see that I'm fairly outspoken (cough, cough) about this—it pains me to see growers put their heart and soul into something for three or four months and end up with "modest" yields when they could be getting so much more for their efforts.
</soapbox rant>
If your plants are doing well at 900, that's excellent. The diagram below is a good checklist of things to set up in a grow environment. I've used it more than once since I started growing and found it to be really helpful. Since I'm a process person, I approach the growing problem by optimizing one aspect of the grow environment at a time. to me, it's just a process of removing the variables and, when you do, you get a shitton of weed. Perhaps that graphic can help.
Soil, eh? That's all "magic" to me, I drown my roots.
Perhaps a soil grower can poke their nose in here or you can post something in the "beginner questions" section for some advice. I'm not up on the techniques needed for soil .
Per above, there are a lot of things that are pretty cut and dried—keep RH and temp in certain ranges, keep nutrient strength at EC X, and get your plants to Y µmol of light.
And there a lot of things that are very, very hard to teach. That was a change for me because I've never grown anything and my careers have been very cut and dried (before I went in the Army, I did accounting for a multination oil company). Growing cannabis has a huge number of things that are very hard to quantify and that's where we learn through experience.
I describe the right time to harvest a cannabis plant as when it's "due", in the same way that my wife was before giving birth. It's very hard to know exactly but something clicks after you've the first time.
Good to hear. It's great to smoke the weed that you've grown!
Well, you're off to a good start. The fact that you got a decent harvest the first time is great but you've also made a decision to make a rescue commitment (time and money, among them).
There's a lot of expertise here on RIU so you should be able to get help with just about any issue that you run into.
I know that feeling. My most recent grow finished at the end of January so it's been frustrating to not have something going on. I'll be dropping seeds very soon now, though.
I hear that a lot. What state are you in? I left CO well before legalization but I hear that the market there has been flooded. Here in SoCal, there's some very high quality stuff but the prices are obscene.
Techno Destructo
Member
Yeah i talked to someone about the DLI schedule there and he said it didn’t make much sense to him so i ignored it and just pumped everything with light. Probably took 3 weeks to 900. Looked like totally fine so went to 1000. Then fine. 1150.
The stress I saw i now think is from ph fluctuations. I dont see any real evidence of light stress at all I dont think. And it seems to be affecting the gary Payton far more than the grape stomper. Gary payton is 9 days out max I think so not extremely worried.
The mimosa I brought from outside from the survival kit is turning yellow all over the place. But has some very fat colas. The 2 sf 2000 seem to be producing colas along the entire length of the branch even under my scrog screen. The buds only stick up 3-4 inches but go the length of the stem. I think i did my scrog wrong.
The stress I saw i now think is from ph fluctuations. I dont see any real evidence of light stress at all I dont think. And it seems to be affecting the gary Payton far more than the grape stomper. Gary payton is 9 days out max I think so not extremely worried.
The mimosa I brought from outside from the survival kit is turning yellow all over the place. But has some very fat colas. The 2 sf 2000 seem to be producing colas along the entire length of the branch even under my scrog screen. The buds only stick up 3-4 inches but go the length of the stem. I think i did my scrog wrong.
Techno Destructo
Member
NV
