human shitbag ariel castro hangs self
- Thread starter Total Head
- Start date
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I get a bit creased by the folks who try to tell me "humanity is what we tell you it is". They don't even see how fucked that is ... and leaves the unauthorized humans.
DrUgZrBaD
Well-Known Member
He was in PC.... It's a shame he wasn't in general population....... It would of been short and sweet.
Total Head
Well-Known Member
i'm not claiming my position is "humane", i'm saying that what we owe each other as civil beings has a limit. the reality is that we as a species have to put a price on our humanity because we do not have the financial or emotional resources to accommodate everyone. when resources are finite, affording the same considerations to certain criminals as we attempt to afford to starving people or abused children (for example) is itself inhumane. pretending that it's possible to achieve that level of equal humanity is dishonest, and to conduct our society according to that false notion that we could only validate with a magic wand is to shit on every last one of us.
so, we either shit on everyone or only shit on a few. because the same turd will hit some people harder than others, shitting on everyone does not seem the humane choice. the only civilized option is to set up a system to pick and choose.
minnesmoker
Well-Known Member
I've heard this argument before... It was a while ago, and stated a lot more charismatically, but, I've heard it before. A way to separate people, some arbitrary border. Then, we'll starve one group, for benefit of the other...
Lot of dead bodies that way... what do you say, big ovens to get rid of them?
Found a reference for it...
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to minnesmoker again.
As long as you are not in danger of being chosen this is an optimum set up is it not? Sir Thomas More stated this and many others before him. I'm paraphrasing essentially he stated he would find for the devil before his own father if the devil had right on his side. Definitions are far to easy to re-define.
Would you cut down the law to get to the devil? And when you finally got to the devil and he turned upon YOU where would you hide? What law will then protect you? Or do we simply redefine you into target? Collateral damage, acceptable losses.... what do these terms mean? Human carnage and we need to stop all of it.
Just because we are a land of limited resources doesn't mean we should embrace it with such self-serving gusto. Now I am wasted beyond belief and I am afraid I only have more questions than answers.
minnesmoker
Well-Known Member
Given the totality of this thread, and the content thereof, your like seems a bit arbitrary, with this post and all. You are playing the exact same position as he played, in calling for his torture and rape. Does that make you a sick bastard? Or just a sick voyeur that gets off on the whole prison sex and torture fetish?
A lot of the comments about what "would have happened..." They wouldn't have, had he been in G-Pop. I know, I was in a maximum security penitentiary. We had people like him walking around. They were untouchables. The paid protection, they were left be. Your fantasy is backwards. He's a rapist and murderer. Those are the people that generally do the raping, in prison.
Would you mete out the punishment and how would you be after that?
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
um neither. Eye for an eye. In retrospect, I can see why you would think that I was calling for his torture and rape. The way I feel about it? you heard someone I love or care about, you best be prepared for some shit coming to you. Whatever you did to that guy, I get it. Some folks might think that makes me insane. Maybe it does. I just know that being human garbage is exactly what it is, I could see myself going that far over my child or someone else very close to me. If I didn't think that the justice system would do anything that is. But then, our justice system is so fucked up, criminals have more rights than victims anymore.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Eye for an eye is the Old Law. Since we're all of us capable of monstrosity, we are all of us responsible to choose not being monstrous, to practice the New Law of grace. "He did it first!" doesn't wash imo.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
you really don't want me to answer that
lets just say that (if it were up to me and I'd found those girls) justice would be done and I would feel at peace with God over it.
minnesmoker
Well-Known Member
Not by a long shot. Some prisons are more cushy, some are more dangerous, some don't have much more than survival requirements. In all of them, though, there is one thing that isn't abundant. Rights and freedoms. In prison, you can be put in seg (isolation) for LOOKING at a guard. Think many victims get thrown in jail for looking at the responding officer? Victims are afforded, especially in rape cases, the right to be totally anonymous, unless they come forward. They have the right to seal their testimony... I could go on and on. And, I'm all for the victims being protected, and having those rights! I even think that victims should get the right to pull the trigger. But, I think that is a choice only the victim (or in the case of death, the victim's family) can and should make. If it's "eye for an eye" Only a person with a patch gets the right to pluck one out.
You called for some "real punishment." Specifically. You quoted a person who's come round to the decision that a holocaust is an acceptable means of dealing with psychopaths. Read the thread, before you quote and agree. I didn't misunderstand anything, you quoted a person calling for rape and torture, you seconded the call. That is what you said, that is plain English.
King James Bible Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me,
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." Mahatma Gandhi.
“To err is humane; to forgive, divine.” - Alexander Pope
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
True. Very true. I did not read the entire thread and did not know that was who I was speaking to. The victim should absolutely have the say, I am a victim of a violent crime. My brother is a CO at a maximum security prison for the "worst of the worst". This is my reference material for the topic. He had to go to a class to learn how to "treat inmates with respect". Most of them respect him but he has had at least 1 that I know
tried to kill him just because he didn't like the way he "looked". I've heard nightmare stories and I can only say that there are some "inmates" who should have been euthanized from the start. I am all for a free and peaceful society. That's all I really want in my lifetime. Just don't ever see it really happening.
tried to kill him just because he didn't like the way he "looked". I've heard nightmare stories and I can only say that there are some "inmates" who should have been euthanized from the start. I am all for a free and peaceful society. That's all I really want in my lifetime. Just don't ever see it really happening.
I want to be very clear here. So you are saying that because we have broken humans in a broken system we should execute the humans and not fix the system? Did you actually just say that? I'm pretty loaded here so help me out.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
oh hell no...it needs to be fixed, badly! execute the libtard humans who think all this kiss ass bullshit is appropriate for child molesters, rapists, murderers...they do the crime, they should do the time! I'm saying from a victims point of view that victims have more rights and should have say in how the offender is dealt with. Period. That also if, should I be present at such a crime, I would do whatever that victim asked to be done! its a human response from someone who understands the agony of being in that position.
minnesmoker
Well-Known Member
wanna compare personal victimization stories?
I was tortured by one of those monsters. Who had also been tortured by a monster, I've witnessed crimes against persons, before the age of 3, that would eat a person with feelings. I grew up "transient." Not poor transient (although we were poor) but, stealthy monster, avoiding incurring punishment for his crimes transient. I can say "that man is broken. He's a monster, and people aren't safe around him, but, he's broken." As a victim, and one devoid of any sense of empathy towards him, I can say that "Anyone that wishes to physically torture him, aside from his victims, is seeking revenge, and has the same broken part of the psyche that drove him to torture others." I know this, I was broken. The system didn't do fuck all for me, except make me exceptionally good. What changed me is a little green plant, a book (The Tao of Pooh,) and a website, where I've twice found assistance, solace, and acceptance (if at a distance - as is understandable, I am what I am.)
We don't know fear, but we damn sure do know self preservation -- our coming out to say "quit trying to be monsters, trust us, we're an authority on the field" is more dangerous to us than a thousand police raids. Our kind is unrelenting in their pursuit of self preservation - look around, see how many of us are open about it, continually, until we're heard (and hopefully accepted.) We're not saying "forgive the guy." We're saying "Don't take on the guy's demon." And, we're doing it at real risk.
I was tortured by one of those monsters. Who had also been tortured by a monster, I've witnessed crimes against persons, before the age of 3, that would eat a person with feelings. I grew up "transient." Not poor transient (although we were poor) but, stealthy monster, avoiding incurring punishment for his crimes transient. I can say "that man is broken. He's a monster, and people aren't safe around him, but, he's broken." As a victim, and one devoid of any sense of empathy towards him, I can say that "Anyone that wishes to physically torture him, aside from his victims, is seeking revenge, and has the same broken part of the psyche that drove him to torture others." I know this, I was broken. The system didn't do fuck all for me, except make me exceptionally good. What changed me is a little green plant, a book (The Tao of Pooh,) and a website, where I've twice found assistance, solace, and acceptance (if at a distance - as is understandable, I am what I am.)
We don't know fear, but we damn sure do know self preservation -- our coming out to say "quit trying to be monsters, trust us, we're an authority on the field" is more dangerous to us than a thousand police raids. Our kind is unrelenting in their pursuit of self preservation - look around, see how many of us are open about it, continually, until we're heard (and hopefully accepted.) We're not saying "forgive the guy." We're saying "Don't take on the guy's demon." And, we're doing it at real risk.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I'm ready to do that. But you are damn straight dead on. I wish more people were like that. Like us. Like me. Sorry for the transgressions taken against you man. Lately I am perpetually reminding myself it's ok to be me. I've tried for so long to "appear" normal for living in society that I almost forgot that I was acting. The monster that took me had no empathy either. Just cold dark eyes and an even colder soul.
roseypeach
Well-Known Member
I hear ya bro. I feel the same way. Just wish the man I'm talking about was in for life. He gets out in 13 years. Plus he's been stalking me online, so there's that.
Total Head
Well-Known Member
what i don't understand is propping up the "everyone is a special snowflake" position with examples of how wrong things go when we "judge people" without any sort of due process. the jews being gassed didn't get a trial where they admitted to atrocities, taking a rapist out back and shooting him does not afford him any due process, propaganda from a charismatic dictator and his henchmen leading to public vigilantism is not due process.
of course "due process" is not infallible. of course this same process results in fucked up shit happening all the time. there's only so much we can reasonably prove or disprove in 2013, but after a civil society offers the accused the best they have (due process that includes free council and laws to prevent railroading) and decides that the accused will never come back to society, their job is done. unless you have some sort of magical solution that doesn't involve treating people who admit to really heinous shit the same accommodations and protections we would give to schoolchildren or the free poor, i don't know what you propose we do to "improve" the situation...one armed guard for each prisoner? cameras in all the cells and hallways? more freedom? less privileges? more privileges? individual cells?
our prison system is grotesquely fucked up for a country of such privilege, but we still spend nearly 4x as much per prisoner as we do per student, and i can't get any clear stats on what the prison:mental health spending ratios are. students are the future, not guys who tie up and rape girls for 10 years. the time to worry about guys like that is before they commit crimes like that, not after. the reality is that we need to prioritize unless the budget fairy is going to come and solve all the bullshit going on and allocate funds for us to worry about all the poor poor guys with bodies in their basements. those poor shafted souls. it sounds a lot like the "give everyone a trophy, playing tag is mean" crowd. if everyone is such a special snowflake, where do we get the money to treat them as such, and how do we make sure to avoid social casualties? how is it better? how is it different?