Food stamps and conservative ideology

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
So part of my job is SNAP (food stamp) advocacy, fighting against proposals of policies that would reduce food stamp allotments or policies that restrict eligibility. As a libertarian leaning person, this is a philosophically difficult issue for me.

A little update on the farm bill for everyone. The senate has passed a comprehensive farm bill, which includes both agricultural legislation and nutritional legislation (SNAP and similar programs). This has been common practice since the seventies, that is combining anti-hunger initiatives with agricultural polices. The house recently tried to pass their own farm bill which included policy changes that would have cut $20 billion out of the food stamp program. This bill went to the floor and embarrassingly failed. Since then, the house has passed an agricultural only bill, which did not include SNAP, and has passed the house. Now, they are proposing a nutrition only bill that will cause the food stamp program to be cut by around $40 billion.

With the ending of the American Recovery and Reinvestment act approaching, the program will already be cut by around $5 billion coming in November.

The SNAP program does have stringent eligibility requirements, which varies by state, and the average allotment per person is only $4.50 per day, or $1.50 a meal. When determining allotment amount, the persons income and expenses are used in the calculation. In Michigan, you have to make less than $1200 a month to even be eligible. If you make anywhere near this you will generally be eligible for the minimum $16 per month.

There have been a lot of media attacks lately, including the fox news special "The great food stamp binge". My question to conservatives, out of all the money spent through government, why would you want to cut a social safety net that provides the most basic need to our population, food? Out of all of the bank/business bailouts that most conservative supported, and all of the wars that most mainstream conservatives support, it is absurd to me that you would make this a priority. We spend more money on killing people than we do feeding the needy in this country.

Many conservatives argue that charities can take care of everyone (this may have been my argument at one time), the food banks do not have the funds or donations to do this. There is no government crowding out in the charity sector. Many food banks even match fund state grants to provide SNAP outreach to their community, promoting the program. The public and private sectors work together well when it comes to nutrition programs. Furthermore, many food bank programs are funded by the state, such as Michigan farm to food bank, which allows food banks to purchase cosmetically challenged and unmarketable food (yet nutritional) with state funds. The charity sector would be in disarray without government funding.

Another qualm conservatives have is the argument that the program will grow out of control. The SNAP programs eligibility is determined by poverty rates, when poverty decreases the size of the program will automatically decrease.

Philosophically, conservatives argue that is immoral to take money by force and redistribute it. This is something that I do have a hard time with. However, in the world we live in, this is common practice for ALL government programs. So you cannot use this argument when independently arguing against food stamps. Food is life and people do have the right to life, as conservatives love to say. In this day and age, those that live in the city cannot be as independent as they used to be. Many people do not have the means to provide their own food source because of where they live.

I am urging conservatives to get their priorities straight and lobby to cut wasteful government programs that are actually wasteful and not used to keep people in America alive.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Food stamps give people the option not to run to the church when desperate.

Food stamps and unemployment insurance give people an option not to take that shitty part time minimum wage job.

and lastly
Food stamps are perceived to go to "those" people
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
Ah yeah, feeding the hungry, those who are disabled, cannot provide for themselves, the mentally ill... conflicts with your libertarian ideology? Maybe it's time you accept your ideology is social Darwinism, and you're just a shitty excuse for a human being.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Food stamps give people the option not to run to the church when desperate.

Food stamps and unemployment insurance give people an option not to take that shitty part time minimum wage job.

and lastly
Food stamps are perceived to go to "those" people
Maybe in some cases you are right, but statistics prove that the majority do not become dependent on food stamps. I don't think many people refuse work so they can continue receiving their $1.50 meals. Some people do not want to work for other reasons, but facts of the program show it is illogical for them to turn down a job because of food stamps. The allotments are not $1 to $1 calculated, meaning if you earn one more dollar per month, you will not lose an entire dollar in food stamps, it is much less. Most people do not want to be dependent upon food stamps.

A lot of churches buy food from food banks, the food banks are partially funded by government funds.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Ah yeah, feeding the hungry, those who are disabled, cannot provide for themselves, the mentally ill... conflicts with your libertarian ideology? Maybe it's time you accept your ideology is social Darwinism, and you're just a shitty excuse for a human being.

Did you read my post retard? :dunce:
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
But socialists don't have communes, bro. It is ironic that i was supporting socialist communes when he called me an asshat as well...
Don't you get sick of polarizing issues by attacking illogically instead of debating? The arguments aren't even so polarizing. It's just rude to narrow context to make it appear that someone has contradicted what you think their views are.

When it is in your signature, it is part of every post you make in the forum and it is a cheap shot. So don't expect him to be polite when he points out that your philosophy sucks.


I don't want you to abandon the tiny shimmer of compassion you are willing to show so I'll let GOD HERE do the ridiculing, but he is right. You are genuinely ignorant of how rude you are too, remarkably.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Don't you get sick of polarizing issues by attacking illogically instead of debating? The arguments aren't even so polarizing. It's just rude to narrow context to make it appear that someone has contradicted what you think their views are.

When it is in your signature, it is part of every post you make in the forum and it is a cheap shot. So don't expect him to be polite when he points out that your philosophy sucks.


I don't want you to abandon the tiny shimmer of compassion you are willing to show so I'll let GOD HERE do the ridiculing, but he is right. You are genuinely ignorant of how rude you are too, remarkably.
He came in the thread and called me a shitty excuse for a human being.... I am pretty sure I didn't initiate the rudeness. Ill meet you half way and remove the sigs.
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
But socialists don't have communes, bro. It is ironic that i was supporting socialist communes when he called me an asshat as well...
You are an asshat, when was the last time you found a socialist commune? Oh you left out the fact that it's MARXISTS who have communes, not modern western socialists. But to a guy obsessed with Rawn Pawl like yourself, your understanding of politics is limited. It must be hard trying to wrap your brain around how Marxists are both socialists and communists, but uniquely different from the modern democratic interpretation.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
You are an asshat, when was the last time you found a socialist commune? Oh you left out the fact that it's MARXISTS who have communes, not modern western socialists. But to a guy obsessed with Rawn Pawl like yourself, your understanding of politics is limited. It must be hard trying to wrap your brain around how Marxists are both socialists and communists, but uniquely different from the modern democratic interpretation.
twist it how you want, NEVER admit you were wrong with your statement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commune_(socialism)

I am here to advocate for food stamps, what is your purpose in this thread?
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
twist it how you want, NEVER admit you were wrong with your statement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commune_(socialism)

I am here to advocate for food stamps, what is your purpose in this thread?
Did you bother reading the article? I've got a word for you... MARXISTS. I know you don't understand the difference, or what these words mean.

My purpose here was to critique your idiotic philosophy, and try and get through that empty head of yours that you're a social Darwinist.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Did you bother reading the article? I've got a word for you... MARXISTS. I know you don't understand the difference, or what these words mean.

My purpose here was to critique your idiotic philosophy, and try and get through that empty head of yours that you're a social Darwinist.
I am a social darwinist that doesn't want to cut food stamps? Interesting... tell me more about myself.
 

GOD HERE

Well-Known Member
I am a social darwinist that doesn't want to cut food stamps? Interesting... tell me more about myself.
How does Ron Paul feel about food stamps? How do "libertarians" feel about food stamps? How'd Ayn Rand feel about food stamps? (despite being on them herself...) What do you think you're doing by voting for these imbeciles?
Are you trying to insinuate that you're finally prepared to feel compassion?
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
How does Ron Paul feel about food stamps? How do "libertarians" feel about food stamps? How'd Ayn Rand feel about food stamps? (despite being on them herself...)
Are you trying to insinuate that you're finally prepared to feel compassion?
Well first off I am not Ron Paul. Ron Paul doesn't rail against food stamps, I don't think i've heard him speak on the issue. As a constitutionalist he would probably be against federal funding of the program and would want the states to fund their desired social safety nets. The states fund many food bank programs so I don;t think this would be an unrealistic transition. Ive never read Ayn Rand so I have no idea with her. Libertarians generally focus on solving the root issue of hunger and focus on recovering the economy and reducing poverty, liberals want to fix the hunger issue with government programs like we have now. Why are you so partisan? This idea that conservatives just want people to starve is not realistic. The idea that liberals want to destroy the economy is not realistic. Most of us on both sides have good intentions and don't want elderly, disabled, etc... to be left out on the streets.

Maybe this will help. I believe a transition to a free market would greatly reduce poverty, therefore reducing the need for food assistance. But under our current economic situation, cutting food stamps is insane.
 
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