Happy frog soil and organics ?s
- Thread starter ibob
- Start date
Firstoffallen
Active Member
Use Fox Farms line of Nutes id grab the Grow Big , Tiger Bloom, and Big Bloom. Happy Frog has alot of goodies already there id let em go 3 weeks unless they show signs of hunger or stress.
ibob
Active Member
dude whats a sign of hunger my baby is droopy fuckkkkkk! man i thought that since i saw a lil bit of droopyness that i waas over watering so i didnt water her for a couple days and she got realy droppy. so i called my friend he is a pro at growing and said to water her and it was because of underwatering. i hope she sparks up here in a lil bit i just gave her a bunch of water. im sure theese are all nuwb mistkes. she is def three weeks old. sooo? what should i do if she dosent rejuvinate with the watering?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Brotha, I don't want to sound like a dick but my advice would be to buy a couple small bottles of synthetic nutrients (Fox Farm Grow Big and Tiger Bloom would be fine) and get the basics of growing down first. Get a feel for your plants, when to water, how much to water, dealing with pests (you will get them), etc. Measuring out a few ml's of a nutrient is much easier to do than building a soil and developing an understanding of soil microbiology.
Again, I don't mean to sound like an ass, and I definitely think that growing organically is the way to go, but if you are interested in harvesting these plants and getting a feel for what you're doing you might be best picking up a couple jugs of synthetics and following the directions on the bottle.
Best of luck
Again, I don't mean to sound like an ass, and I definitely think that growing organically is the way to go, but if you are interested in harvesting these plants and getting a feel for what you're doing you might be best picking up a couple jugs of synthetics and following the directions on the bottle.
Best of luck
ibob
Active Member
i will not put chemicals in my grow thats what i feel strong about. and no u are not coming off dushy i need the advice! i mean i kinda understand soil microbiology. cant i just get away with using fish emulsion and other ograngics. ive seeen all kinda organic fertilizer. im willing to sit down and learn all this 100% if u point in the right direction. thanks man
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
St0wandgrow really knows his game. I like his advice for you. If you want an easy way to go with bottles then look up AN Motherearth Super Teas.
GandalfdaGreen
Well-Known Member
AN's Iguana Juice is nice too. I'd go this way and then read and study for the next cycle. These are top shelf nutes. The Roots Organics line is nice as is the General Organics line. They call it "Soup Style" organics. It can really kick some major ass. Get your feet wet first before going all gung ho. 
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I respect that ibob. Gandalf gave you some good options on bottled organic nutes if you want to go that route. If you want to skip the bottles and dig further in to this shoot me a pm and I'd be happy to help you out. There are plenty of knowledgeable peeps here that will help you, but I still feel it's important to get a couple runs under your belt and get a feel for your ladies.
Nullis
Moderator
You guys are kidding right?
Firstly, the FF Trio isn't all organic, Big Bloom is and that is it. FF has dry organic nutrients under the Happy Frog and Peace of Mind labels (I don't use them).
You could just go out and buy something like Espoma Bio-Tone Starter Plus, or another Tone product. These are widely available products; you can top-dress with them.
Otherwise buy a full organic liquid line if you must, such as Earth Juice (Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, MFP) along with some lime for the soil or the General Organics box. Teas don't have to be complicated either (many threads on this subject).
We are talking about throwing some compost in a bucket with an air stone, molasses, and possibly some guano, kelp or alfalfa meal. It isn't exactly rocket science. Not to sound like an ass.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
"You guys are kidding right?"
No, not at all. OP appears to be brand new to this (couldn't even identify that his plant was bone dry and needed watered) so in the interest of saving *this* harvest and getting a bit of a feel for his plants I suggested buying a couple small bottles of synthetic nutes. I understand organics is the way to go (which I stated), but he won't kill the planet with a couple small jugs of FF. I promise.
"Firstly, the FF Trio isn't all organic, Big Bloom is and that is it."
I'm aware of that.
"You could just go out and buy something like Espoma Bio-Tone Starter Plus, or another Tone product. These are widely available products; you can top-dress with them."
That would require a soil alive with microorganisms to break those organic inputs down. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that due to the soil being bone dry for god knows how long, this isn't the case. He could also get in to brewing ACT's to address the problem, but again, if he can't even identify that the plant needs to be watered I'm going to guess that brewing a proper tea would be over his head as well. That's why a synthetic nutrient was recommended.
"Otherwise buy a full organic liquid line if you must, such as Earth Juice (Grow, Bloom, Catalyst, MFP) along with some lime for the soil or the General Organics box. Teas don't have to be complicated either (many threads on this subject)."
See above.
Nullis
Moderator
Also was responding to Firstoffallen, about the FF trio not being fully organic.
And no, no, actually the microbes are already in the Bio-Tone (hence the name of the product) and other tone products.
Organics is not (or doesn't have to be) any more complicated than you want to make it. Nobody really needs to "start off using synthetics", that is bs.
And no, no, actually the microbes are already in the Bio-Tone (hence the name of the product) and other tone products.
Organics is not (or doesn't have to be) any more complicated than you want to make it. Nobody really needs to "start off using synthetics", that is bs.
Nullis
Moderator
And nobody said anything about "killing the planet with a few bottles of FF", that's a straw man, quit being ridiculous. Simply making the OP aware of this fact, since this is the organics forum and he said he didn't want to use 'un-naturals' i.e. synthetically chelated plant nutrients.
I simply see no reason to recommend someone "use synthetic nutrients first". I mean, under watering is under watering, inexperience is inexperience. Happy Frog is a living soil.
For the OP, no I have nothing against HF, I use Fox Farm soil but none of their liquid or other products (at least not for years). They do make fine dry all natural\organic granular plant foods; there are usually microbes included in dry products (check the label). Espoma products are just more widely available and less expensive. The Bio-Tone Starter + has a few species of mycorrhizae and several more beneficial bacteria. The -Tone products are complete plant foods.
Liquid organics should be just about as easy to use as any other liquid nutrient. Even Earth Juice... as long as you do your research and realize you might want to add a little bit more lime to your mix and that you should use the Grow\Bloom formulas together (reducing Grow dosage slowly during bloom). General Organics is extremely user-friendly, and most of the nutrients are already in their soluble form (nautrally chelated with organic acids).
BTW what is a "proper" tea? We're talking about mixing some molasses into water, throwing in a cup of humus (Ancient Forest, castings or compost) and leaving it to aerate with an air-stone\decent pump for a day. Filter with a nylon sock, spray it on your plants. Or water it in. Synthetic nutrients don't prevent under or improper watering. Just saying.
I simply see no reason to recommend someone "use synthetic nutrients first". I mean, under watering is under watering, inexperience is inexperience. Happy Frog is a living soil.
For the OP, no I have nothing against HF, I use Fox Farm soil but none of their liquid or other products (at least not for years). They do make fine dry all natural\organic granular plant foods; there are usually microbes included in dry products (check the label). Espoma products are just more widely available and less expensive. The Bio-Tone Starter + has a few species of mycorrhizae and several more beneficial bacteria. The -Tone products are complete plant foods.
Liquid organics should be just about as easy to use as any other liquid nutrient. Even Earth Juice... as long as you do your research and realize you might want to add a little bit more lime to your mix and that you should use the Grow\Bloom formulas together (reducing Grow dosage slowly during bloom). General Organics is extremely user-friendly, and most of the nutrients are already in their soluble form (nautrally chelated with organic acids).
BTW what is a "proper" tea? We're talking about mixing some molasses into water, throwing in a cup of humus (Ancient Forest, castings or compost) and leaving it to aerate with an air-stone\decent pump for a day. Filter with a nylon sock, spray it on your plants. Or water it in. Synthetic nutrients don't prevent under or improper watering. Just saying.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Not knowing how, when, or how much to water is far more problematic when dealing with a living organic soil. There are no wet-dry cycles. The soil needs to be consistently moist, otherwise the microbes would remain dormant, or at least very inactive and all of the organic inputs in the world wouldn't do a damn bit of good. There is much more room for error when using synthetic nutrients. I don't care what you say contrary to that.
For what it's worth, and to his credit he has insisted on doing things organically, so I'm giving dude a hand via pm right now. His first assignment is to read One Straw Revolution, followed by Teaming With Microbes.
bluntzndbongz
New Member
bro if you readthe backof fox farms soil mix the fertilizer is organiclol its liqoud organi fertilizer i was just at the garden store today and on the back of the fox farm grow big tiger bloom and big bloom it said uses 100% organicslike bat guano and worm casing liquified though
Nullis
Moderator
Blah. Blah. Blah. Blah Blah. I simply don't believe that. Learn to water properly. Moving on. And you do realize a lot of the microbes just go dormant, form spores, endospore, cysts, that sort of thing? Soil dries out all the time outside, during periods of drought.
Having read Teaming With Microbes you should realize that plant roots produce exudates to nourish microbes in the rhizosphere, where it counts. A little bit of under watering shouldn't devastate a crop. Mycorrhizae should, theoretically, allow you to water less. Underwatering will cause problems with hydro\synthetic nutrients. You may see 'deficiencies' when the problem is dry spots.
I simply refuse to believe that one method is any easier, in the long run, than setting out to do what you wanted to do in the first place (organics). There is always going to be a learning curve when you are fresh into something.
Grow Big is not 'organic' whatsoever. Tiger Bloom is derived partially from bat guano, worm castings, synthetics and synthetically chelated micronutrients. You will notice that Tiger Bloom says "organic-BASED". There is no organic matter in Tiger Bloom (nor in Grow Big). Check out the ingredients list. Refrain from using anything with EDTA in it.
Big Bloom is their ONLY 100% organic liquid nutrient. You'll notice it has a low-NPK, and it contains organic matter (not a straight liquid which pours like water).
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Is there a problem with simply agreeing to disagree? I've been growing for a minute, and those are my observations. Soil and synthetics are more forgiving. Not saying it's the best way, just the easiest. You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm sure we can find a way to disagree in a respectful manner.
If not, don't bother responding to my posts. This site is filled with know it all kids as it is.
Nullis
Moderator
I guess so, if you feel the need to respond, as in "you are entitled to your opinion, BUT..." and I think I stated in my first post that I didn't mean to sound like an ass. 
Seriously though my point ultimately is that soil organics doesn't have to be complicated. There will always be a learning curve when you first learn to do something. If you're going to do anything 'first', maybe try growing other plants in general besides Cannabis.
Seriously though my point ultimately is that soil organics doesn't have to be complicated. There will always be a learning curve when you first learn to do something. If you're going to do anything 'first', maybe try growing other plants in general besides Cannabis.