9/11 what do you think?

[tokeprep]

Don't forget that he wrestled control of the flight from the Captain first.

Charles Burlingame, Naval Aviator, 6'4", 240 lbs

Hanjour was what, 140?

Flying a heavy jet is exactly like playing x-box, only 4 or 5 controls, the rest is just hollywood magic. Airplanes don't really have all those instruments. Just a pedal, a steering wheel and a blinker. Flying a 747 heavy is the same as flying a hang glider, just gotta lean into it.

And the other hijackers? Their weapons?

Why are we comparing flying a commercial plane to a video game when no one is alleging that video games are all the training the pilots they had? It makes no sense.

 

[echelon1k1]

Don't forget that he wrestled control of the flight from the Captain first.

Charles Burlingame, Naval Aviator, 6'4", 240 lbs

Hanjour was what, 140?


Flying a heavy jet is exactly like playing x-box, only 4 or 5 controls, the rest is just hollywood magic. Airplanes don't really have all those instruments. Just a pedal, a steering wheel and a blinker. Flying a 747 heavy is the same as flying a hang glider, just gotta lean into it.

Cheers bro... now I know that everything I do on MS FlightSim can be replicated real world with little or no training and experience... In saying that, I cannot fathom why they don't just recruit pilots and soldiers straight from the XBOX Live high score lists...

It's a no brainer right there and you wouldn't have to train pilots, rangers, medics, jtac/cct etc... They all come xbox qualified and ready for deployment.

 

[echelon1k1]

Cheers bro... now I know that everything I do on MS FlightSim can be replicated real world with little or no training and experience... In saying that, I cannot fathom why they don't just recruit pilots and soldiers straight from the XBOX Live high score lists...

It's a no brainer right there and you wouldn't have to train pilots, rangers, medics, jtac/cct etc... They all come xbox qualified and ready for deployment.

edit - just looked up Burlingame, a TOP GUN honors graduate... "Talk to me goose"...

 

[tokeprep]

I have no doubt at all a qualified naval aviator could hit that mark, proof of this are carrier landings. But a shitty unqualified "pilot" who couldn't even do a solo flight in a Cessna 150 flies like a pro when it counts? Something isn't right there...

You specifically mentioned Hani Hanjour, who didn't just take flying lessons but actually had a pilot certificate. Why are you calling him a "shitty unqualified 'pilot'"?

 

[echelon1k1]

And the other hijackers? Their weapons?

Why are we comparing flying a commercial plane to a video game when no one is alleging that video games are all the training the pilots they had? It makes no sense.

There's a member who made a big song and dance about his "credentials" only to be trumped by a real naval aviator.

 

[echelon1k1]

You specifically mentioned Hani Hanjour, who didn't just take flying lessons but actually had a pilot certificate. Why are you calling him a "shitty unqualified 'pilot'"?

Because he was. period.

 

[tokeprep]

Because he was. period.

You called him an unqualified amateur as if he hadn't been trying to obtain that certificate for years before the 9/11 attacks. Apparently a pilot certificate in the United States is absolutely meaningless, then, and none of our pilots are qualified to fly?

 

[echelon1k1]

You called him an unqualified amateur as if he hadn't been trying to obtain that certificate for years before the 9/11 attacks. Apparently a pilot certificate in the United States is absolutely meaningless, then, and none of our pilots are qualified to fly?

No one would hire him and he was a crappy pilot. fact. FBI Agent Ken Williams thought so, he also authored the "phoenix memo".

 

[tokeprep]

No one would hire him and he was a crappy pilot. fact. FBI Agent Ken Williams thought so, he also authored the "phoenix memo".

You don't have to be a skilled pilot to hijack an aircraft and crash it into something. The fact that no one wants to make you a career pilot doesn't mean that you're incapable of flying a plane.

 

[cannabineer]

I have no doubt at all a qualified naval aviator could hit that mark, proof of this are carrier landings. But a shitty unqualified "pilot" who couldn't even do a solo flight in a Cessna 150 flies like a pro when it counts? Something isn't right there...

Hitting a vertical bullseye when you're not worried about style points like survival is really easy. cn

 

[NoDrama]

Naval aviators routinely hit a much much smaller window at 200 mph in all weather, and in aircraft not much lighter and with higher wingloading. cn

Naval Aviators only real problem is pitching/heaving deck. Catching that second cable is actually the norm, not terribly difficult once carrier qualified.

 

[tokeprep]

Hitting a vertical bullseye when you're not worried about style points like survival is really easy. cn

Amen! You have the plane on autopilot for most of the trip in the case of Flight 77, no piloting necessary. Your target? The biggest building in the Washington area, one of the biggest buildings in the world. It is implausible that someone with serious flight training who had prepared extensively and was eager to accomplish the mission would be able to do so? Absolutely not!

The doubters seriously underestimate the dedication of the pilots. They thought they were giving their lives up for God, for eternity in paradise--you don't do a shitty job in those circumstances. You probably don't knowingly approach the very last moments of your life--imagining that instant when you slip into paradise--as a bumbling, incompetent fool. No, you give it everything you have.

 

[echelon1k1]

Naval Aviators only real problem is pitching/heaving deck. Catching that second cable is actually the norm, not terribly difficult once carrier qualified.

Do you think you could replicate what they did that day? total hypothetical...

 

[echelon1k1]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml

New radar evidence obtained by CBS News strongly suggests that the hijacked jetliner which crashed into the Pentagon hit its intended target.

Top government officials have suggested that American Airlines Flight 77 was originally headed for the White House and possibly circled the Capitol building. CBS News Transportation Correspondent Bob Orr reports that's not what the recorded flight path shows.

Eight minutes before the crash, at 9:30 a.m. EDT, radar tracked the plane as it closed to within 30 miles of Washington. Sources say the hijacked jet continued east at a high speed toward the city, but flew several miles south of the restricted airspace around the White House.

At 9:33 the plane crossed the Capitol Beltway and took aim on its military target. But the jet, flying at more than 400 mph, was too fast and too high when it neared the Pentagon at 9:35. The hijacker-pilots were then forced to execute a difficult high-speed descending turn.

Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes.

The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed

The jetliner disappeared from radar at 9:37 and less than a minute later it clipped the tops of street lights and plowed into the Pentagon at 460 mph..

 

[NoDrama]

Do you think you could replicate what they did that day? total hypothetical...

Not in a 757.

 

[tokeprep]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/national/main310721.shtml

What if they just got lucky in their desperation to hit the assigned target? How could you possibly distinguish?

Interestingly, this very article discusses witness reports that the plane didn't initially hit the building, instead skidding off of the lawn and then into the building. Evidently they didn't initially hit their target, then?

 

[NoDrama]

They thought they were giving their lives up for God, for eternity in paradise--you don't do a shitty job in those circumstances. You probably don't knowingly approach the very last moments of your life--imagining that instant when you slip into paradise--as a bumbling, incompetent fool. No, you give it everything you have.

That must explain why they went to Vegas to gamble, get lap dances and screw hookers. Religious zealots who were willing to give their lives, but not willing to follow the rules of that religion. Makes sense.

 

[tokeprep]

That must explain why they went to Vegas to gamble, get lap dances and screw hookers. Religious zealots who were willing to give their lives, but not willing to follow the rules of that religion. Makes sense.

When did people start making sense? Religious people aren't ever hypocritical? Look at any American televangelist; look at the porn they found in bin Laden's compound. You don't have to be a perfect person to be batshit crazy intent on something.

 

[echelon1k1]

When did people start making sense? Religious people aren't ever hypocritical? Look at any American televangelist; look at the porn they found in bin Laden's compound. You don't have to be a perfect person to be batshit crazy intent on something.

That's called dis-information, just like how the Taliban on camera will claim to have killed thousands of infadels, when the opposite is true. And if you understood the mentality behind sunni-takfirs, you'd understand that your assumption is incorrect. War is deceit and "taqiyya" is only practiced by the Shia.

 

[echelon1k1]

What if they just got lucky in their desperation to hit the assigned target? How could you possibly distinguish?

Interestingly, this very article discusses witness reports that the plane didn't initially hit the building, instead skidding off of the lawn and then into the building. Evidently they didn't initially hit their target, then?

No when he realised he might not make it, he made a 330 degree turn 5miles out, at the end of which the plane dove a couple of thousand feet, at 500mph, then hit the target. I don't believe in coincidences, 1 guy getting lucky fine... But 3 getting lucky...