The ULTIMATE Flowering Spectrum
- Thread starter Fonzarelli
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RainerRocks
Active Member
Slipon
Well-Known Member
yes its the 700nm its inferred, we humans cant see it, farered is the 660nm
RainerRocks
Active Member
I thought deep red was 660nm and far red was around 730nm ?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
According to the info I copied above, the more important thing to distill is that 630 does 95% of what 660 does, meaning it's importance, as well as 640-650-700-730.... is small, at best. AND, when their ratios are out of whack with nms <630, the harvest may well suffer. At least that's my deduction. Won't be the last time I was wrong, though
Slipon
Well-Known Member
so what your saying, is that the 630nm is the "most" important/effectiv for flowering ?
I was in the believe it was the 640nm of course supported by 630 and even 620
and that the 660 (as I read, I believe, is fare red ?) is for the "Emerson" effect or sumthing a like
the 700nm was to mix in some inferred (was`t to sure about that one, knew I should have done even more research)
the 6500K was to both have some "true white" to hit all the spectrum and to make up for the lack of blue`s, had to skip two to get one more 640 and one more 660 in to the mixture and since I veg with T5HO in 6500K it also make sense to use, as fare as I know 6500K is also more "effective" then other whites (etc. warm white/2700k)
what would be your mixture if you should put 120x3W together and you had a box full of all the chips/LEDs you could imagine
I was in the believe it was the 640nm of course supported by 630 and even 620
and that the 660 (as I read, I believe, is fare red ?) is for the "Emerson" effect or sumthing a like
the 700nm was to mix in some inferred (was`t to sure about that one, knew I should have done even more research)
the 6500K was to both have some "true white" to hit all the spectrum and to make up for the lack of blue`s, had to skip two to get one more 640 and one more 660 in to the mixture and since I veg with T5HO in 6500K it also make sense to use, as fare as I know 6500K is also more "effective" then other whites (etc. warm white/2700k)
what would be your mixture if you should put 120x3W together and you had a box full of all the chips/LEDs you could imagine
RainerRocks
Active Member
Check this link out to see what LED nm covers what in the spectrum.
http://www.buildmyled.com/leds/
Whites (even WW) don't have much deep Red so you need some deep red.
http://www.buildmyled.com/leds/
Whites (even WW) don't have much deep Red so you need some deep red.
so what your saying, is that the 630nm is the "most" important/effectiv for flowering ?
I was in the believe it was the 640nm of course supported by 630 and even 620
and that the 660 (as I read, I believe, is fare red ?) is for the "Emerson" effect or sumthing a like
the 700nm was to mix in some inferred (was`t to sure about that one, knew I should have done even more research)
the 6500K was to both have some "true white" to hit all the spectrum and to make up for the lack of blue`s, had to skip two to get one more 640 and one more 660 in to the mixture and since I veg with T5HO in 6500K it also make sense to use, as fare as I know 6500K is also more "effective" then other whites (etc. warm white/2700k)
what would be your mixture if you should put 120x3W together and you had a box full of all the chips/LEDs you could imagine
tenthirty
Well-Known Member
Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green (2009)
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full.pdf
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full.pdf
Slipon
Well-Known Member
hmmm.. interesting, need to spend a few hrs read it a few times and understand it all (English is`t my fist or second languages) I was awar that leave`s do let light pass, to the lower grow (plants are smart
) but Im sure I read a "few" places that the green light is reflected by the plant and is`t really used, actually why plants look green to us, if they where to reflect red or blue light they would seems red or blue to us, did`t know it was used by the plants, I stick to my red LEDs and keep the Bud site with in the light 
ya bongo
Well-Known Member
slipon, here is a more readable Version over green light.
http://www.heliospectra.com/sites/www.heliospectra.com/files/field_page_attachments/what_light_do_plants_need_2012-10-05.pdf
http://www.heliospectra.com/sites/www.heliospectra.com/files/field_page_attachments/what_light_do_plants_need_2012-10-05.pdf
Slipon
Well-Known Member
thanks, nice reading, now your ruin my beauty sleep
the more I read the more Im glad that I did mix in some cool white, not just to support the lack of blue`s and cover the spectrum better, but also for some green it seems and a bit of UV, as little it may be, guess its better then nothing, and might be one of the reason why a full spectrum light or one with white`s do better then a pure red/blue light ? I guess the white`s provide less par, logic as the watt/lumens/par it provide is spread out and also cover some of the spectrum the plant wont use, but in my logic it seem`s a few in the mix will support the single spectrum LEDs and help provide the plant with more of a full spectrum, tho still with a majority with in the peak area`s
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Several White LEDs available for the last couple years provide as much PAR as B/Rs.
The problem (of false science) stems from R/Bs were the first diodes made and some idiot (with pseudo authority) sold the mj lighting industry the idea that the only spectrums mmj needs are the R/B peaks, AND, the rest are a waste, including that Green was not important.
I showed you where the important flowering spectrum is 630. And since WW can produce ample 630, well, the spectrum beyond it is not the be-all-end-all. In fact there are several completed grows using only CREE WWs, which coincidentally have a broad 630
Undoing that early programming has been difficult, but the winds are changing.
The problem (of false science) stems from R/Bs were the first diodes made and some idiot (with pseudo authority) sold the mj lighting industry the idea that the only spectrums mmj needs are the R/B peaks, AND, the rest are a waste, including that Green was not important.
I showed you where the important flowering spectrum is 630. And since WW can produce ample 630, well, the spectrum beyond it is not the be-all-end-all. In fact there are several completed grows using only CREE WWs, which coincidentally have a broad 630
Undoing that early programming has been difficult, but the winds are changing.
How about this combination for 3 feet x 3feet
660nm=90 leds
470nm=18 leds
640nm=36 leds
440nm=18 leds
740nm=18 leds
many ppl on here having LEDs on this forum have R/B Red/Blue combination LEDs similar to above spectrums and growing very satisfactory (similar to HIDs) crops .
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I think it's possible. I'm working on LED panels. Next LED project will be mostly whites with red/blue in lower ratio like 10 white:4 red:2 blue. I like having more white in a spectrum than red/blue.
I think intensity is very important to get nice penetration into the canopy and individual leaves. Green light does this and white light has a lot of green light in it.
I haven't supplemented sunlight with LEDs because there would be no need. Sunlight has a lot of red already. But I have supplemented 1000w MH like Hortilux blue or Sunpulse 3k and get great results as well. Can't go wrong there.
So as far as LEDs go, if you were to use 400w of white LEDs and then use 200w of red/blue LEDs I think it would work like a MH+LEDs method. But the reason I like MH is because they are an inexpensive source of white light compared to LEDs, but there's still the heat issue.
I didn't have any luck with using only red/blue LEDs alone. Plants wouldn't grow at all. Still not finished trying though and I want to try using other NM blue to see if it makes a difference. The general concensous is that the specific NM blue isn't important as long as it's around 450nm, but I have only tried 460nm with no luck so far.
I still think the full spectrum is the best way to go for the most part and just swing the K temp just like nature when in bloom. Adding extra blue to a veg light works for keeping plants short and stocky, but it's important to always have some 630-670nm in there at all times for an excellerated growth rate. I don't think exact NM is important as long as it falls somewhere in between there.
I think LEDs have a better chance than MH at copying the sun's spectrum if it wasn't for the expense. I have not seen good results with red/blue only panels to this day at least when comparing it directly to a MH+led or HPS+led grow.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Reboot your computer (aka, brain). Due to HUGE advancements in white diodes, R/B is no longer needed. Of course you can still use them, but why complicate your fixture. Where do you put them for best coverage. Hmmmmmmm????????????????????????????
A guy on another site, growing outdoors, put a 730-780 LED over one large plant. It worked really well. IndaGrow(Induction) has pontoons that are on separate switches for after hours bump. That's the hot ticket to max out an led panel.
A guy on another site, growing outdoors, put a 730-780 LED over one large plant. It worked really well. IndaGrow(Induction) has pontoons that are on separate switches for after hours bump. That's the hot ticket to max out an led panel.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
What huge advancement? AFAIK white LEDs still only contain 1 single blue peak and mostly yellow/green wavelengths, except for a few WW and NW that peak at 630nm. What advancements have they made since XML or XTE?
heckler73
Well-Known Member
Aren't there a larger variety of Phosphor coatings being played with now? For example, the implementation of REEs into the phsophor mix, creating a wider array of possible spectra.
Excited electrons are excited over that development (especially in the 4f shell).