Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas

[GreenSanta]

rrog, do you think that once a healthy population of microbes and bacteria are in the soil, ACT is no longer needed, but the odd application of blackstrap molasses is very useful to keep the healthy population?

 

[Rrog]

Close. I (and many others whose opinions and results I respect) feel that once a soil is up and running and established the soil is profoundly alive with the microbiological configuration the plant wants. I just top-dress after that and use simple, fast bubbled Botanical teas, but not ACT (AACT). I view the ACT as an extra step.

Surely there's no growing downside that I'm aware of using ACT. I'm just lazy and if there's no bang for the buck, I'll pass.

 

[Rising Moon]

I just finished an experiment where I grew two plants in JUST pro mix, and only fed with herbally enhanced compost teas...

Over-all, especially for fast cycles, I like what I saw, but it was sorta a pain to make teas all the time...

I will be trying the same experiment, same strains, but a different medium mix, (coco/ewc/perlite).

But now I know where my teas are at, and feel fairly confident that I know what I am talking about when I choose the botanical herbs, and when to use them.



Here is a pic of some of the finished product...

(OG Kush x UK Cheese)

 

[Rrog]

Sparkly goodness!

 

[Rising Moon]

[video=youtube;2g6YjZUwlg4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g6YjZUwlg4&list=UU5xbo9BKi9N5N1uaHtg3ukA& index=10[/video]

 

[Rising Moon]

[video=youtube;zfKMjfPr8dk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKMjfPr8dk[/video]

 

[st0wandgrow]

rrog, do you think that once a healthy population of microbes and bacteria are in the soil, ACT is no longer needed, but the odd application of blackstrap molasses is very useful to keep the healthy population?

Santa, I'm no expert on this so I'll defer to folks like Rrog, but the way I understand it is that an ACT is essentially just a means of multiplying the microorganisms that are present in your compost. Given that, it stands to reason that you would reach a certain point in the plants life cycle where adding more micros to the mix is pointless. To me, the earlier the better.

I'm mixing a batch of amended soil up tomorrow. I'm going to split the batch in to two, and let them both sit for around a month. One batch I'm planning on periodically wetting down with an ACT throughout the month with the intentions of building a vibrant micro herd way before a plant ever sees that soil. The other batch will not be exposed to an ACT until I have plants in them vegging. I don't know if I will notice any significant differences, but I will take notes/pics none the less and let you know how things turn out.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Rising Moon, that ganja looks spectacular!

Nicely done

 

[Sincerely420]

"People who don’t understand soil biology will say that bacteria are always present, at more or less the same
numbers. But this is an error based on the methods that have been used. The classical medical way of
looking at disease-causing organisms was applied to soil, and inappropriate conclusions made. “Plate
count” methods assess mainly spores, which are dormant stages of some, but not all, organisms. Spores
aren’t affected as much as active organisms are by toxic chemicals or tillage. Plate media miss 99.99% or
more of the actual species growing and being active in soil. As a result, people relying on plate methods
have lead others to extremely mis-informed decisions." (Ingham 2)

"Compost contains many years worth of any nutrient. As long as the biology remains un-compromised by
toxic chemical additions, the organisms will cycle those nutrients into plant-available forms. This strongly
suggests that compost is a fertilizer; an organic fertilizer. Compost tea will contain many, but not all, of the
nutrients that were in the compost. Compost quality is critical to understand, in order that we can
maximize nutrient concentrations in the tea. Understanding the role of the organisms is all important,
therefore.

Natural systems don’t require additions of inorganic, soluble (and thus very leachable) forms of nutrients to
maintain productivity. The most productive systems on this planet are systems which do not have, and
have not ever had, inorganic fertilizer applied.

If we want clean water, we have to get the biology back in our soils. If we want to grow and harvest crops,
we have to build soil and fertility with time, not destroy it. The only way to reach these endpoints is to
improve the life in the soil." (Ingham 10)

The Compost Tea Manual - How To Use Compost Tea. UP NEXT

 

[Rrog]

You are quoting a very poor source. Within the scientific community she is considered a hack scientist, I'm afraid.

 

[Sincerely420]

"Compost teas, correctly made and applied, improve the life in the soil and on plant surfaces. With time and
continued use, compost and compost tea of a quality designed to improve the set of organisms relative to
the plant species desired, will increase the number of individuals and the species diversity of the
communities of leaf, stem, flower, seed-surface and soil microorganisms, and will select against disease-
causing or pest organisms." (Ingham 23)

"Use compost or compost tea to do the job of putting back
in the biology as well as some foods."(Ingham 29)

The Compost Tea Manual - Factors Affecting Compst Tea Quality - Next

 

[Sincerely420]

You are quoting a very poor source. Within the scientific community she is considered a hack scientist, I'm afraid.

This don't apply to you bro. Why comment?
She had a Phd. The videos you posted were from a guy that learned via trial and error...

edit- & NONE of this I did for you bro...None of it pertains to you.


You said...."I (and many others whose opinions and results I respect) feel that once a soil is up and running and established the soil is profoundly alive with the microbiological configuration the plant wants. I just top-dress after that and use simple, fast bubbled Botanical teas, but not ACT (AACT). I view the ACT as an extra step.

Surely there's no growing downside that I'm aware of using ACT. I'm just lazy and if there's no bang for the buck, I'll pass. "

And I'm fine with that! To each each his own!

Like I'm sure all the other growers that use ACT or AACT are.

Ps, An ACT and an AACT are the same EXACT thing. Just to no sound confusing!

There's NO difference between an actively aerated compost tea, and an aerated compost tea. It's all just terminology.

 

[Sincerely420]

"Compost tea can be inconsistent from batch to batch, but this variability is actually relatively easy to
control. When making tea, test the tea periodically to make sure the set of organisms in the tea is
maintained and no unexpected problems occur to harm extraction and growth of the organisms."(Ingham 34)

Foam. "The presence of foam on the surface of tea is considered a positive sign, but just means there are
free proteins, amino acids or carbohydrates present. This can occur as the result of adding fish hydrolysate,
certain organic acids or carbohydrates. If worm compost was used, excessive foam suggests a few
earthworms were in the compost and their dead bodies are providing this source of protein/carbohydrate.
Excess protein or amino acids should not occur if bacteria are growing well, although dead worms may
continue to release proteinaceous materials throughout the brewing cycle. Foam can be suppressed by using
organic surfactants, such as yucca or vegetable oil (not olive or canola oil!). Don’t use commercial de-
foamers – every single one we have tested kills the organisms in the tea".(Ingham 3

Next up: The Compost Tea Manual - Brewing Methods And Machines

 

[headtreep]

"and will select against disease-
causing or pest organisms" Awesome that coincides with what I've mentioned before as an IPM. Love my compost foliars but I do hope I'm not wasting my time. I'm not a scientist per say nor do I have a PHD.

 

[Rising Moon]

This don't apply to you bro. Why comment?
She had a Phd. The videos you posted were from a guy that learned via trial and error...

That was me posting the vids...

Jeff Popper (the guy in the videos) is a real deal FARMER, not a scientist, and he never claimed to be...

I know a girl with a PHD in ag that can barely grow a competent garden, let alone contribute anything worth while to the actual professionals...

 

[Sincerely420]

That was me posting the vids...

Jeff Popper (the guy in the videos) is a real deal FARMER, not a scientist, and he never claimed to be...

I know a girl with a PHD in ag that can barely grow a competent garden, let alone contribute anything worth while to the actual professionals...

My bad RM, I thought that the other guy posted that...
Sorry...

But you get the gist of what I mean...
And yeah not every book smart individual retains the goods I know, but it takes at least 7 years studying to obtain a Phd.
During that time, I sure she went thru a lot of trial and error...

And I don't care that someone says they're opinion isn't respected in the community...She's got a Phd. She's published...
I'm just dropping the info so that it's available for ppl to take from it what they can and will..
I never been someone to not believe something, or to not "like" someone just because someone else didn't...

& Life is one big lesson of trial and error

 

[Rrog]

I like peer reviewed data. If something works well commercially, there's a buzz within the industry and the industry trade rags, and studies will ensue. Any peer-reviewed lab studies conducted on ACT are few and not favorable.

Again, all this means is that the brewing is an extra step that commercial farmers don't see a value in. Doesn't mean it's bad. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it if you enjoy it.

 

[Sincerely420]

You like peer reviewed data, but discount data coming from a published farmer with a Phd..
Suit yourself..To each his own.

"Any peer-reviewed lab studies conducted on ACT are few and not favorable. " - Not a fact.
Not even CLOSE. Yet you say it like is CONCRETE...

And again, your opinion is just that....YOUR opinion. And we all aren't "commercial farmers".
A lot of of closet gardeners..Who don't use "no-till"...We transplant, and we do so a few times..

And we couldn't POSSIBLY see things more different than we currently do!
I'm talking POLAR opposites...Can't disagree about something any more than I disagree with you lol but hey to each his own right?!

And you speak of making an AACT like it's hard work lol. No it's not. It takes 2 minutes to get a brew started...After that you wait.

But make another thread as to why you don't need to use AACTs lol.
Look at the title of this one man...
I see you already made a no till thread or there is one already made!
I don't post there bcuz I don't use the "no till" style...

Why post here if you don't garden with compost teas?

 

[Rrog]

I post because you post. Pretty simple. If you throw out the info you had better be prepared to discuss it. To be clear, I am not looking to convince you of anything. I am simply offering some scientific balance to your assertions.

BTW peer reviewed means someone else from that scientific community reviewed or re-created the data. That hasn't happened. So you are propagating info that has no peer review.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929139310001332

www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/horticultural myths_files/Myths/Compost tea 3rd time.pdf

 

[Sincerely420]

You're posting peer reveiwed articles....
Read them over and quote what you find significant.

& Ask me a question if you want to discuss something because i'm ready.
I'm not looking to convince you either bro. You do your thing and I do mine.

& lastly, what was I to take from those two articles?

Ps I didnt find either of those relevant to anything I just posted.
EM and why ACTs aren't good for diease prevention? what

Theres