BHO vac purge "Muffining"

[hugaddiction]

I have been watching some Youtube videos of BHO vac purges and am hearing from a few of the extract makers that the "muffining" is bad. Why does that happen and how to you avoid it? also, how bad is it really for the end product?

EDIT:I think if you relieve some pressure form the vac it will spread out. this process over and over again until no tall muffin might be the answer.

 

[vacpurge]

muffining is because the oil is EXTREMELY underpurged when putting it into the vacuum chamber.

properly purge your oil of all the butane, then put it into the vacuum and muffining.

all muffining is is he sticky, warm, stretchy oil making thousands of bubbles as the butane bubbles are escaping the bubbles get bigger/thinner and looks a lighter color. it stays puffed up like that and if you cool it down, then de vac. it holds that shape, which isnt necessarily a good thing.

 

[dtowndabber]

muffining is because the oil is EXTREMELY underpurged when putting it into the vacuum chamber.

properly purge your oil of all the butane, then put it into the vacuum and muffining.

all muffining is is he sticky, warm, stretchy oil making thousands of bubbles as the butane bubbles are escaping the bubbles get bigger/thinner and looks a lighter color. it stays puffed up like that and if you cool it down, then de vac. it holds that shape, which isnt necessarily a good thing.

Right. Because there is still butane trapped. If you properly purge before the vac any bubbles during the vac will pop.

 

[Fadedawg]

We prefer to turn our oil into Absolute shatter, using thin film techniques, instead of the thick film that produces muffins and honeycomb wax. If you smell your pump oil afterwards, you will note that the long vacuum cycles necessary to purge in thick films and produce "wax" are depleting the oil of more terpenes than a quick thin film purge.

We also prefer to vaporize Absolutes, instead of oleoresins with plant waxes still intact, so as to not coat our lungs with plant waxes.

To put the issue in perspective, the amount of residual butane in wax is more of an issue of taste than toxicity. You can taste it at about 1/2 of one percent of the level that it is toxic.

 

[biglungs]

just let ur oil sit out overnight before vac chamber problem solved

 

[Shawns]

Or you could just make your honey oil with iso then you wouldnt have to worry about all that lol

 

[bowlfullofbliss]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Fadedawg again..

you have mad knowledge Fadedawg........mad knowledge.

 

[Fadedawg]

Yesterday we did an extraction with the recovery pot set at 85F, to produce a light feathery irridescent dry as a bone shatter, which I kneaded into a ball after warming, and in a couple trys, baked it into a wax muffin.

I was shaking out the temperature controls on the used vacuum oven that we picked up, and they proved to be wholly inacurate at low temperatures, so tomorrow I will install digital controls.

The end product turned out dark, because of overheating, but here are some interesting shots throughout the process.

 

[hugaddiction]

We prefer to turn our oil into Absolute shatter, using thin film techniques, instead of the thick film that produces muffins and honeycomb wax. If you smell your pump oil afterwards, you will note that the long vacuum cycles necessary to purge in thick films and produce "wax" are depleting the oil of more terpenes than a quick thin film purge.

We also prefer to vaporize Absolutes, instead of oleoresins with plant waxes still intact, so as to not coat our lungs with plant waxes.

To put the issue in perspective, the amount of residual butane in wax is more of an issue of taste than toxicity. You can taste it at about 1/2 of one percent of the level that it is toxic.

Can you elaborate what a "quick thin film purge" is? Also, I recently learned about adding everclear and freezing the material and re filtering that to remove the waxy plant matter to make shatter Does this actually work? Have not yet tried it and am not sure how to do it. thanks!

 

[Fadedawg]

Can you elaborate what a "quick thin film purge" is? Also, I recently learned about adding everclear and freezing the material and re filtering that to remove the waxy plant matter to make shatter Does this actually work? Have not yet tried it and am not sure how to do it. thanks!

What I intended to say, was that a thin film purge is quicker than a thick film purge, because of the surface area to depth ratio.

The ultimate in thin film purge would be something like a Rotovape, which continuously renews the thin film, but the principle is the same with vacuum chambers and ovens. Keep the surface area high, and the film depth thin, because all boiling occurs at the surface and the butane molecules won't have so far to go as they ricochete around looking for a way out.

If you get them out quicker, you don't have to pump as long and lose as many lighter terpenes.

If you start with a raw oleoresin by spreading a small amount in a flat dish, like a Petri dish or pie plate, and place it in a -29.9" Hg vacuum at a temperature of 115F, the resin will slump down into a thin film and you can watch the bubbles. When the larger and irregularly sized solvent bubbles are gone and only the smaller more equally sized CO2 bubbles remain, take it out of the chamber and let it cool down to produce a shatter.

If you start with a winterized ethanol and oil solution, place a pool about ~3/8" deep in a -29.9" Hg vacuum chamber at 115F and the alcohol will boil off at the lower temperature, leaving behind a thin film of shatter, which can be final purged same as above.

 

[Greenhydroguy]

What I intended to say, was that a thin film purge is quicker than a thick film purge, because of the surface area to depth ratio.

The ultimate in thin film purge would be something like a Rotovape, which continuously renews the thin film, but the principle is the same with vacuum chambers and ovens. Keep the surface area high, and the film depth thin, because all boiling occurs at the surface and the butane molecules won't have so far to go as they ricochete around looking for a way out.

If you get them out quicker, you don't have to pump as long and lose as many lighter terpenes.

If you start with a raw oleoresin by spreading a small amount in a flat dish, like a Petri dish or pie plate, and place it in a -29.9" Hg vacuum at a temperature of 115F, the resin will slump down into a thin film and you can watch the bubbles. When the larger and irregularly sized solvent bubbles are gone and only the smaller more equally sized CO2 bubbles remain, take it out of the chamber and let it cool down to produce a shatter.

If you start with a winterized ethanol and oil solution, place a pool about ~3/8" deep in a -29.9" Hg vacuum chamber at 115F and the alcohol will boil off at the lower temperature, leaving behind a thin film of shatter, which can be final purged same as above.

Hey guys, Im slightly new to running bho but this is what im at. I have a 1cu ft vaccum oven with a 2 stage 4 cfm pump. i know my setup is legit as i spent a few bucks on it, so im basicaly just in the learning stage of doing a few personal runs. so far this is my routine
1. pack product into tube ( roughly 2 oz per tube)
2. spray directly into non-bleached parchment in a Pyrex pan measuring 5" by 9" away from heat (approx 3 cans per 2oz tube), with 3 tubes per pyrex.
3. once all sprayed, carefully transfer pyrex into hot/warm water in a hotplate/skillet.
4. let bubble for approx 35-1hr, or untill the bho is not 100% caked in bubbles and bubbles are very slowly popping
5.Cut parchment to proper square and place directly into vac oven.
6. oven is preheated at 99.5%, bring to full vac
7. after approx 12 hrs when bubbles are slowing down, take out bho slab, fold all 4 sides approx 1" in to make a nice square, transfer to new piece of parchment and flip.


now this is were im not sure if im doing it right, ive been flipping my paddy every 12-24 hrs for approx 4 days now. ive heard that the longest it should take is 5 days at that temp but it looks like its not close to done??(still looks like a cluster of craters on the moon theres so many big bubbles.)
any help would be greatly appreciated
Am i doing something wrong? i was thinking either not hot water purging long enough? or possibly packing to much product into the tube and somehow binding the butane to the product? or it could even just be that my pyrex isnt big enough? thanks again
Cheers

 

[Fadedawg]

Hey guys, Im slightly new to running bho but this is what im at. I have a 1cu ft vaccum oven with a 2 stage 4 cfm pump. i know my setup is legit as i spent a few bucks on it, so im basicaly just in the learning stage of doing a few personal runs. so far this is my routine
1. pack product into tube ( roughly 2 oz per tube)
2. spray directly into non-bleached parchment in a Pyrex pan measuring 5" by 9" away from heat (approx 3 cans per 2oz tube), with 3 tubes per pyrex.

I don't recommend spraying directly on parchment paper. Consider PTFE film instead.
3. once all sprayed, carefully transfer pyrex into hot/warm water in a hotplate/skillet.

Consider spraying into a deeper dish, sitting in hot tap water to prevent ice formation at the edges of the pool.
4. let bubble for approx 35-1hr, or untill the bho is not 100% caked in bubbles and bubbles are very slowly popping

I stop when the visible butane is gone and bubbling stops. I change the hot tap water once after I finish shooting.
5.Cut parchment to proper square and place directly into vac oven.

6. oven is preheated at 99.5%, bring to full vac

What temperature and how are the shelves heated?
7. after approx 12 hrs when bubbles are slowing down, take out bho slab, fold all 4 sides approx 1" in to make a nice square, transfer to new piece of parchment and flip.

What are you trying to make?

At 115F and -29.5" Hg, you should been long done for shatter. Consider flipping every time the flurry of solvent bubbles die down after flipping. It will drive the solvent off disproportionately faster than the monoterpenes.

If you are trying to make wax, you can either start around 85F and -29.5"Hg, and increment up the temperature each time the paddy stabilizes, or start around 150/160F and increment up the vacuum each time it stabilizes.

How fast it forms oil/wax hydrates depends in part on how much plant wax is present to form points of nucleation and how much moisture is present to form the hydra part of the hydrate.

now this is were im not sure if im doing it right, ive been flipping my paddy every 12-24 hrs for approx 4 days now. ive heard that the longest it should take is 5 days at that temp but it looks like its not close to done??(still looks like a cluster of craters on the moon theres so many big bubbles.)
any help would be greatly appreciated

Moon craters suggests the pool is below the temperature where it loses enough surface tension for the bubbles to readily escape.

Whether that is good or bad depends on what you are trying to make.

Am i doing something wrong? i was thinking either not hot water purging long enough? or possibly packing to much product into the tube and somehow binding the butane to the product? or it could even just be that my pyrex isnt big enough? thanks again

Option D, none of the above. The solution lies with your finishing techniques.
Cheers

 

[Budboy31]

So I have a question, I once somehow made this moon sand type of stuff, and can't really figure it out again. Have you ever made wax that ended up something like that?

 

[Cgravell23]

Crumble, @ the end of your 3rd day the last 15-20 minutes of your purge i think your gradually turn your heat up to 145• then cool it back down to 64-72.(room temp) but if your working on a skillet like me, you’ll have to get started an hour or so before cause heating up your chamber in your “ double broiler set-up takes a while to heat up and cool off