Soil Food Web Gardening with Compost Teas
- Thread starter trichome fiend
- Start date
Cann
Well-Known Member
nice looking plants everyone. greeeeen
rrog - I'm pretty sure the other day coot said that he doesn't use enzyme teas (sprouted seed or coconut h2o) as a foliar anymore - it only goes into the soil. He said something along the lines of "I'm not sure what effect enzymes would have on the leaf surface". Just throwing that out there - I only hit my ladies with aloe foliars or neem/silica - i stopped with the coconut h2o and barley seed foliars a few weeks ago and havent noticed any difference. the coconut h2o would leave a weird residue on the leaves that I didn't like.
rrog - I'm pretty sure the other day coot said that he doesn't use enzyme teas (sprouted seed or coconut h2o) as a foliar anymore - it only goes into the soil. He said something along the lines of "I'm not sure what effect enzymes would have on the leaf surface". Just throwing that out there - I only hit my ladies with aloe foliars or neem/silica - i stopped with the coconut h2o and barley seed foliars a few weeks ago and havent noticed any difference. the coconut h2o would leave a weird residue on the leaves that I didn't like.
Cann
Well-Known Member
nah no Agsil in the soil for me, I have tossed a little in my worm bins though - so when I get around to using that EWC, I guess Agsil will be in the soil.
I do topdress with neem meal - seems to take care of a lot of insects. gnats can be super persistent so sometimes I have to break out a mosquito dunk or two.
The agsil works amazing as an emulsifier - much better than my pro-tekt. I couldnt for the life of me emulsify Ahimsa neem oil with pro-tekt (it was the end of a bottle of pro-tekt so I think something went wrong...) even after repeated trys with warm water and consulting coot via PM, nothing. He suggested that it might be the pro-tekt, and whaddya know - as soon as I got my Agsil and mixed it with neem I was amazed. It is almost frothy/foamy vs the pro-tekt which just changed the color of the liquid. The agsil seems to increase the volume almost as if you are whipping cream. Prime stuff, and a fraction of the price. I'm converted
I do topdress with neem meal - seems to take care of a lot of insects. gnats can be super persistent so sometimes I have to break out a mosquito dunk or two.
The agsil works amazing as an emulsifier - much better than my pro-tekt. I couldnt for the life of me emulsify Ahimsa neem oil with pro-tekt (it was the end of a bottle of pro-tekt so I think something went wrong...) even after repeated trys with warm water and consulting coot via PM, nothing. He suggested that it might be the pro-tekt, and whaddya know - as soon as I got my Agsil and mixed it with neem I was amazed. It is almost frothy/foamy vs the pro-tekt which just changed the color of the liquid. The agsil seems to increase the volume almost as if you are whipping cream. Prime stuff, and a fraction of the price. I'm converted
Cann
Well-Known Member
found the quote:
Someone asked CC about enzyme teas "Would this have any benefits if sprayed instead of applied to the root zone??"
His response:
"I've used the coconut water and the enzyme teas on the soil so I don't have any information in that regard.
These are some of specific enzymes we get from sprouted seeds (amylase, arylsulphatase, β-glucosidase, cellulase, chitinase, dehydrogenase, phosphatase, protease, and urease) - I can't see what benefit or even reaction they would create on the surface of leaves & branches.
Veganically speaking that is....."
CC
after that I stopped using barley and coconut h2o foliars...i'll let you guys draw your own conclusions. there might be something to gain - maybe nothing to lose? besides time I guess. all I know is I spray aloe twice a week and neem/silica once a week. more if i'm worried about pests/PM.
Someone asked CC about enzyme teas "Would this have any benefits if sprayed instead of applied to the root zone??"
His response:
"I've used the coconut water and the enzyme teas on the soil so I don't have any information in that regard.
These are some of specific enzymes we get from sprouted seeds (amylase, arylsulphatase, β-glucosidase, cellulase, chitinase, dehydrogenase, phosphatase, protease, and urease) - I can't see what benefit or even reaction they would create on the surface of leaves & branches.
Veganically speaking that is....."
CC
after that I stopped using barley and coconut h2o foliars...i'll let you guys draw your own conclusions. there might be something to gain - maybe nothing to lose? besides time I guess. all I know is I spray aloe twice a week and neem/silica once a week. more if i'm worried about pests/PM.
headtreep
Well-Known Member
Borrowed from eyecmag:
Hey folks (specifically newbs to ROLS),
I have read this entire thread as closely as my amateur skills have allowed me, and I have created a very terse compilation of notes, based exclusively from this thread. Meaning anything said can be sourced somewhere in this thread. There is such an extensive array of valuable information here I feel it warrants a summary of key terms/ideas, mainly for any newbs who have joined the boat late and who would like to source information quickly. If one person finds value in them other than myself, then it's worth posting
*Disclaimer*
These are my notes. As such, please take them with a grain of salt. Rather than rely on the specific claims I make in my notes or the figures I use, I recommend using them as an index of terms that can and should be searched for to help you locate specific topics quickly and efficiently. Also, these notes by no means cover all of the topics discussed. Unfortunately, they only touch on topics that are of specific interest to me. For example, you will find nothing regarding breeding, of which there is plenty discussed in this thread. I haven't tested many of these suggestions, and I haven't tested most on a long term basis. Remeber, these notes are coming from a newb!
Without further ado...
ROLS Notes
-Kelp has so many trace elements that it improve plants immune system against disease, insects, weather. Foliar is the most effective. Foliar roots during transplant. Growth max or growth plus are good brands. Foliar in the morning. Apply 1/2-3/4 cup of kelp meal to 1 c.f. of potting soil everyrecycle. Do not use liquid kelp as these products have far less benefits than raw kelp meal.
-Alfalfa has many trace minerals as well as n-p-k-Ca-mg, sugars, starches, protein, fiber and 16 amino acids. Use on top of soil sprinkling lightly or 1 cup per 1 c.f. soil mix or 1 tbs per gallon ACT. Excellent foliar feed. Use alfalfa seed tea early in flower to reduce internodal spacing.
-Aloe juice - simply crush the leaves and collect the juice. Aloe foliar @ 2 tbls per gallon water once every 3 days. Unprocessed Aloe must use within 20 minutes due to decomposition. Supplement with worm castings and casting teas. Great for rooting clones. Great for PM resistance along with neem, kelp and alfalfa. Excellent in rooting clones just add 2 oz per gallon water. 2 tbls per gallon foliar spray. Apply 1-3 times a week. Soil drench and foliar are identical.
Vermicompost
-use coffee beans for N. ph is about 6.9 for used grounds.
-leaves and straw for bedding.
-add grit like sand or limestone or eggshells for worm digestion @ 1% total mass
-red wriggler can live 0-30 degrees celsius. Optimal temps 15-25
-up to 20% worm biomass
-use citrus peels and onions with caution
-Fish bone meal - replace every other recycle for 5 cycles, then add every 3-4 cycles. Use 1-3 cups per 6 gallons depending on other high N sources such as alfalfa. High in phosphorous.
-Sphagnum peat is not inert it is alive! Look specifically for sphagnum.Holds 20x water to weight. Aerates heavy clay soils. Speeds up composting. Decomposes slowly over several years as opposed to compost which completely decomposes after a year.
-Stinging nettles and comfrey are a powerful pesticide and fungicide. Dice and purée 2 cups of comfrey or stinging nettles and let sit in water for no more than 3 days. Folier as well as soil drench.
-Rice hulls are a superior substitute for perlite. Perlite floats to the top of the pot. Also try lava rock.
-Leaf mold takes 6 months to a year to decompose. Speed the process up by throwing in high N stuff like compost, alfalfa meal. Use 2 quarts per cubic foot of soil. Great for moisture retention and aeration.
-Spider mites - control with neem foliar spray and rosemary oil spray. 10% rosemary oil to 90% water. -cardamom - grind 1/4 cup then place in hot water. Let cool. Go spray spider mites. Lavender tea. mite magnet - live Basel plants.
-Heat stress - use barley seed extract tea, same method as other enzyme seed teas.
-freshly rooted clones - couple days before transplanting add 1 tbs kelp meal , 2 tbs alfalfa meal, 1 gallon water bubble for 36-48 hrs for a boost in growth.
-Mineralization - azomite , gypsum (home depot) limestone and glacial rock @ 32 tbs per c.f. (total)Go to a landscape supply and load a bucket of all the rock u want! Try to go for volcanic rock dusts, as these contain silica.
-Thrips - ladybird larvae eat thrip larvae. Electric bug zapper. Bacteria called spinosad. Monterey garden insect w/ spinosad. Entrust 80w. Nematodes. Mums. Gerbera. Only foliar spray spinosad. Foliar with aloe and protekt. 1/4 aloe 2 tsp protekt per gallon solution. Know thrip life cycle.
-Cilantro pesticide- buy a bunch of organic cilantro. Place in food processor. Throw in 1 gallon of clearwater. Sit for 36 to 48 hours, no more. Strain. Add 1 cup of strained cilantro tea to 15 cups of water. Add quarter cup of Aloe Vera juice. 1 teaspoon pro-tekt. 30 minutes before lights out spray and soak everything. Leave ventilation on. Apply every four days for four applications. Use in conjunction with spinosad.
-Silica - use every watering and foliar spray up to harvest. Great pest and disease control. Protekt and agsil 16h are good brands. Agsil is greater value for your money. 148 grams agsil to 1 litre water = protekt. Silica is an emulsifier (i.e. use with neem oil)! 2 tsp protekt to 1 g water.
-Organic cloning gel - 1 g water, 2 tbs aloe Vera, 1.5 tbs Ful-power, 1.5 ts Protekt. Shake. Soak jiffy pucks for several hours. Use rooting product as well.
-Water retention - saponins. Horse chestnuts have a lot of saponins.
-Foliar - once a week, with something. Stop half way through flower. Always use Ful-Power to half harvest. Use Protekt till harvest.
-Neem - 1/4 cup per 1 cf every re ammend. Foliar-4 tsp per gallon. Emulsify with protekt. Ensure that water is at least 75 degrees fahrenheit when mixing final solution, otherwise it will clump - useless.
-Biochar. Hardwood charcoal. Smash to bits. Prevents yellowing via slow release of nutrients. Optional: place in compost pile. Allow up to 10% total soil volume. Cowboy charcoal from whole foods. Take bag of char, add 1/2 gallon EWC, 2-4 cups fish or guano or alfalfa or comfrey, soak a week in ACT, strain and add to soil.
-Enzyme tea -2 tablespoons of seeds (1 oz.) The choice of seeds is non specific. Almost anything works. Soak for 12-18 hours in mason jar. Drain that water and throw away it’s full of growth inhibitors. After a day or so once sprouted, add 1/2 gallon of water to the sprouts for a 36-48 hour soak. Strain and use 1 cup of this to 1 gallon of water as soil drench. Observe 'praying' leaves. Chop seeds for worm food. Do not store these teas.
-Coconut - scraping coconut paste from a young coconut. Enzymes, auxins, elements, etc. 1 coconut can do 20 plants. 1 oz coconut water to 15 oz water foliar spray clones. Benefits are too numerous to list.
Hey folks (specifically newbs to ROLS),
I have read this entire thread as closely as my amateur skills have allowed me, and I have created a very terse compilation of notes, based exclusively from this thread. Meaning anything said can be sourced somewhere in this thread. There is such an extensive array of valuable information here I feel it warrants a summary of key terms/ideas, mainly for any newbs who have joined the boat late and who would like to source information quickly. If one person finds value in them other than myself, then it's worth posting
*Disclaimer*
These are my notes. As such, please take them with a grain of salt. Rather than rely on the specific claims I make in my notes or the figures I use, I recommend using them as an index of terms that can and should be searched for to help you locate specific topics quickly and efficiently. Also, these notes by no means cover all of the topics discussed. Unfortunately, they only touch on topics that are of specific interest to me. For example, you will find nothing regarding breeding, of which there is plenty discussed in this thread. I haven't tested many of these suggestions, and I haven't tested most on a long term basis. Remeber, these notes are coming from a newb!
Without further ado...
ROLS Notes
-Kelp has so many trace elements that it improve plants immune system against disease, insects, weather. Foliar is the most effective. Foliar roots during transplant. Growth max or growth plus are good brands. Foliar in the morning. Apply 1/2-3/4 cup of kelp meal to 1 c.f. of potting soil everyrecycle. Do not use liquid kelp as these products have far less benefits than raw kelp meal.
-Alfalfa has many trace minerals as well as n-p-k-Ca-mg, sugars, starches, protein, fiber and 16 amino acids. Use on top of soil sprinkling lightly or 1 cup per 1 c.f. soil mix or 1 tbs per gallon ACT. Excellent foliar feed. Use alfalfa seed tea early in flower to reduce internodal spacing.
-Aloe juice - simply crush the leaves and collect the juice. Aloe foliar @ 2 tbls per gallon water once every 3 days. Unprocessed Aloe must use within 20 minutes due to decomposition. Supplement with worm castings and casting teas. Great for rooting clones. Great for PM resistance along with neem, kelp and alfalfa. Excellent in rooting clones just add 2 oz per gallon water. 2 tbls per gallon foliar spray. Apply 1-3 times a week. Soil drench and foliar are identical.
Vermicompost
-use coffee beans for N. ph is about 6.9 for used grounds.
-leaves and straw for bedding.
-add grit like sand or limestone or eggshells for worm digestion @ 1% total mass
-red wriggler can live 0-30 degrees celsius. Optimal temps 15-25
-up to 20% worm biomass
-use citrus peels and onions with caution
-Fish bone meal - replace every other recycle for 5 cycles, then add every 3-4 cycles. Use 1-3 cups per 6 gallons depending on other high N sources such as alfalfa. High in phosphorous.
-Sphagnum peat is not inert it is alive! Look specifically for sphagnum.Holds 20x water to weight. Aerates heavy clay soils. Speeds up composting. Decomposes slowly over several years as opposed to compost which completely decomposes after a year.
-Stinging nettles and comfrey are a powerful pesticide and fungicide. Dice and purée 2 cups of comfrey or stinging nettles and let sit in water for no more than 3 days. Folier as well as soil drench.
-Rice hulls are a superior substitute for perlite. Perlite floats to the top of the pot. Also try lava rock.
-Leaf mold takes 6 months to a year to decompose. Speed the process up by throwing in high N stuff like compost, alfalfa meal. Use 2 quarts per cubic foot of soil. Great for moisture retention and aeration.
-Spider mites - control with neem foliar spray and rosemary oil spray. 10% rosemary oil to 90% water. -cardamom - grind 1/4 cup then place in hot water. Let cool. Go spray spider mites. Lavender tea. mite magnet - live Basel plants.
-Heat stress - use barley seed extract tea, same method as other enzyme seed teas.
-freshly rooted clones - couple days before transplanting add 1 tbs kelp meal , 2 tbs alfalfa meal, 1 gallon water bubble for 36-48 hrs for a boost in growth.
-Mineralization - azomite , gypsum (home depot) limestone and glacial rock @ 32 tbs per c.f. (total)Go to a landscape supply and load a bucket of all the rock u want! Try to go for volcanic rock dusts, as these contain silica.
-Thrips - ladybird larvae eat thrip larvae. Electric bug zapper. Bacteria called spinosad. Monterey garden insect w/ spinosad. Entrust 80w. Nematodes. Mums. Gerbera. Only foliar spray spinosad. Foliar with aloe and protekt. 1/4 aloe 2 tsp protekt per gallon solution. Know thrip life cycle.
-Cilantro pesticide- buy a bunch of organic cilantro. Place in food processor. Throw in 1 gallon of clearwater. Sit for 36 to 48 hours, no more. Strain. Add 1 cup of strained cilantro tea to 15 cups of water. Add quarter cup of Aloe Vera juice. 1 teaspoon pro-tekt. 30 minutes before lights out spray and soak everything. Leave ventilation on. Apply every four days for four applications. Use in conjunction with spinosad.
-Silica - use every watering and foliar spray up to harvest. Great pest and disease control. Protekt and agsil 16h are good brands. Agsil is greater value for your money. 148 grams agsil to 1 litre water = protekt. Silica is an emulsifier (i.e. use with neem oil)! 2 tsp protekt to 1 g water.
-Organic cloning gel - 1 g water, 2 tbs aloe Vera, 1.5 tbs Ful-power, 1.5 ts Protekt. Shake. Soak jiffy pucks for several hours. Use rooting product as well.
-Water retention - saponins. Horse chestnuts have a lot of saponins.
-Foliar - once a week, with something. Stop half way through flower. Always use Ful-Power to half harvest. Use Protekt till harvest.
-Neem - 1/4 cup per 1 cf every re ammend. Foliar-4 tsp per gallon. Emulsify with protekt. Ensure that water is at least 75 degrees fahrenheit when mixing final solution, otherwise it will clump - useless.
-Biochar. Hardwood charcoal. Smash to bits. Prevents yellowing via slow release of nutrients. Optional: place in compost pile. Allow up to 10% total soil volume. Cowboy charcoal from whole foods. Take bag of char, add 1/2 gallon EWC, 2-4 cups fish or guano or alfalfa or comfrey, soak a week in ACT, strain and add to soil.
-Enzyme tea -2 tablespoons of seeds (1 oz.) The choice of seeds is non specific. Almost anything works. Soak for 12-18 hours in mason jar. Drain that water and throw away it’s full of growth inhibitors. After a day or so once sprouted, add 1/2 gallon of water to the sprouts for a 36-48 hour soak. Strain and use 1 cup of this to 1 gallon of water as soil drench. Observe 'praying' leaves. Chop seeds for worm food. Do not store these teas.
-Coconut - scraping coconut paste from a young coconut. Enzymes, auxins, elements, etc. 1 coconut can do 20 plants. 1 oz coconut water to 15 oz water foliar spray clones. Benefits are too numerous to list.
headtreep
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much all you need to get started and the rest is learn as you go or wait for the organic terrorists to put up more info. Try getting some farm books too.
Im reading this and a few others currently:
[h=1]The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming[/h]
Im reading this and a few others currently:
[h=1]The Biological Farmer: A Complete Guide to the Sustainable & Profitable Biological System of Farming[/h]
SpliffAndMyLady
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys,
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
I have great results spraying all sorts of herbal concoctions I come up with.
Nettle, Dandelion leaf, Red Clover flower, Chamomile, Comfrey, Kelp, Yarrow, Horsetail, Borage, Valerian...
Ill just spray one for a certain effect, or combine them for synergistic effects. No pests or disease, and healthy happy plants.
Nettle, Dandelion leaf, Red Clover flower, Chamomile, Comfrey, Kelp, Yarrow, Horsetail, Borage, Valerian...
Ill just spray one for a certain effect, or combine them for synergistic effects. No pests or disease, and healthy happy plants.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Spliff! Good to see you! I love the pic. Looks outstandingly healthy.
Headtreep- Teas are no issue. Or any drench, for that matter. The Blumats just shut themselves off until it's dry again. I used to run straight well water, which is pretty hard here, and that's fine but not for soil to be recycled. Next grow will be using RO with a pump to increase the pressure across the membrane for better filtration and capacity and then a pressure reducer from Blumat.
Headtreep- Teas are no issue. Or any drench, for that matter. The Blumats just shut themselves off until it's dry again. I used to run straight well water, which is pretty hard here, and that's fine but not for soil to be recycled. Next grow will be using RO with a pump to increase the pressure across the membrane for better filtration and capacity and then a pressure reducer from Blumat.
headtreep
Well-Known Member
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Do teas and other concoctions clog those lines? Seems like top feed tea makes sense and only keeping water in your res.
Rising Moon
Well-Known Member
You talking about the garden photos I posted in the MI forum?
Im still working on last years carrots, Ive got a whole tote of them...
Just now getting started on the veggie seeds, planting lettuce, peppers, eggplant and more in flats tomorrow!
I cant believe its almost spring!
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Ooooooohhhhh.. Sorry my friend. I misunderstood. The Blumat lines are sensitive and 3mm small. I would not run a tea through it and I myself am looking forward to running just RO. Guys that run chems through have to flush the lines
Moon- I dig your new Avatar! I was just asking if you grow or have access to fresh Comfrey, etc I haven't seen your groovy pics yet.
Moon- I dig your new Avatar! I was just asking if you grow or have access to fresh Comfrey, etc I haven't seen your groovy pics yet.
SpliffAndMyLady
Well-Known Member
Thanks Rrog, why would you want to use RO water vs Tap/Catchment Water when recycling soil?
I got some idea's...but I would like to know were you're going with this idea.