How to choose an led grow light.

[mtlhaze]

How to choose an LED grow light?

I have been reading the forums for a long time now and have decided to put this post up in the hopes of helping LED grow light shoppers make an informed decision.

I have been using LED's for a little while now and have tried about 5 different kinds, from "brand names" to unknown. I even began importing my favourite ones for friends but I am not here to sell any. This is strictly for you to know what to look for before you put up any $$. I'm not going into too much detail at this time, this is simply a starting place. If you have any detailed questions feel free to ask or message me.


First thing I look for. What is the wattage of the LED chip.

THE CHIP:

I am not a fan of any led using less then a 3w chip. A TRUE 3w led chip, not one consisting of 3 1w leds. A good 3w chip from Cree, Epistar or Bridgelux will offer the quality I will be looking for. Bridgelux only makes blue/white spectrum at this time.

5w chips are on the way and I believe will be the future of LED growing but I do not think there has been enough testing and optimizing yet. Give it another year for them to work out the bugs.

THE OUTPUT:

How many units claim to be 300w? 600w? even 1000w led? Sellers will try anything to attract a sale. They use 3w chips, great. In fact they have 300 x 3w chips and the claim this is a 900w unit? Great? No... CHECK OR ASK THE ACTUAL POWER OUTPUT. Chances are they use a 300w power unit, which is slightly underpowered for 300 chips but is respectable. Their sales method however is not.

Now a buyer is comparing a $1000 "900w" to a $800 true 300w unit and really they are probably the same.

In the world of LED you CAN NOT power a chip to 100% power, it will burn the chip, regardless of quality within a few months plus the chip will burn off the extra power as heat NOT PAR.

As of now I use a 560w output unit and it is amazing and VERY strong. I will always go for the most powerful unit I can afford. If its too strong I can always lift the unit, but with a weak one I'm stuck.

THE SPECTRUM:

Naturally we are looking for a spectrum that falls within the ideal PAR values. As of now there is no such thing as "full spectrum led" all Led's are programmed for their spectrum.

I will look for blues ranging from 440-470nm and reds in the 640-660nm. In general Led's also have 10nm "range" around each programmed spectrum. For example a 660nm will offer from 650nm- to 670nm with the peak being 640nm.

THE HEATSINK AND COOLING.

All light sources use their energy by converting the electricity to either light or heat.

HPS/MH bulbs will let off up to 80% of the electricity as heat making them incredibly hot and inefficient. An Led light will let off about 15-25% of the energy as heat and unlike traditional bulbs they release most of the heat from behind them so we need to dissipate this effectively. A good quality light will have a thick high quality aluminium heat sink attached to the back with cooling fans forcing the heat away from the lamp.

Cheaper ones will use a an aluminium sheet resembling a piece of paper across the back and may or may not have a fan.

LENS OR NO LENS?

An optical lens on the lamp will magnify the light. From what I have read it is up to 25% more penetration. At this time LED's are still weak in my opinion and the lamp should use a Lens to get the most out of it. Of course this could raise the price of the lamp some 30% or even more. Exposed leds are not my favourite option but if all the above conditions are in place it would still work decently and be a good cheaper way to start until you have the $$ to upgrade.

MATERIALS USED

An LED grow light is supposed to last up to 10 years. You are paying good money for a high quality lamp, it should not be made with plastics. Of the top end units they all seem to use aluminium housing.

THE WARRANTY

I am VERY suspicious of any lamp with a 1 year warranty since every part installed is expected to last a decade. I look for 3 year warranty. These are usually on the parts and free shipping. Some units are made where parts of the lamp run independently of each other so if one part fails the rest still works.

I wouldn't want to send out my unit so this is great for my personal choice. Your plants still have light till replacement parts arrive.



I hope this helps answer some questions I know its very tedious to do the research on led grow lights since there is so much crap out there.

Happy Growing

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Hey, I like the idea behind this. I think you should change the efficiency part on LED's, though, it's incorrect. It's the other way around, LED's are 15-20% efficient, not 80-85%. This means that LED's are on average about as efficient as HID (around 80% of energy goes to heat). LED drivers are on average 10-20% more efficient than HID ballasts (probably more if it's a magnetic ballast). Also, you can customize the spectrum so that, of the light that you actually produce, less goes to waste.

Why not add a section on cost? If you're like me, it might be the best panel in the world, but if it's $3 to $4 per Watt I'll still pass. In my mind there is a hefty case of diminishing returns with a lot of super high quality stuff that's on the market right now. I'm more looking for "good enough" than "best ever," but realistically it's probably a compromise between the two.

 

[Bubbagineer]

If you're like me, it might be the best panel in the world, but if it's $3 to $4 per Watt I'll still pass. In my mind there is a hefty case of diminishing returns with a lot of super high quality stuff that's on the market right now. I'm more looking for "good enough" than "best ever," but realistically it's probably a compromise between the two.

Amen, I've researched until I'm blue in the face . I went with a light that is probably just over $2/watt (watts at the plug). 3watt diodes... We'll see. Just finishing the cab and blumat system. Almost ready to pop some seeds.

 

[mtlhaze]

I think you should change the efficiency part on LED's, though, it's incorrect. It's the other way around, LED's are 15-20% efficient, not 80-85%. This means that LED's are on average about as efficient as HID (around 80% of energy goes to heat). LED drivers are on average 10-20% more efficient than HID ballasts (probably more if it's a magnetic ballast)

Im not sure why you would think HID and LED are both as inefficient, is there a comparison or thread discussion I could read? I would very much like to compare it. My statement of LED efficiency is of course from sources that come from chip manufacturers and energystar. The lights I use run very cool and bright. Since the electricity has to be released as light or heat, well you see why I would believe it they must be more efficient.

As for Yield and $ per watt it comes to a personal decision based on what the buyer needs.

I know for a fact I will get heavier yields with a HPS/MH system. I don't believe LED lights can get the same yield yet. So why did I choose LED?

1.) The heat. I have lost my AC system before and it took me a week to get it up again, by then it was too late, they would not recover. I use a small portable now and wont wipe if it does.

2.) the electricity. i can run 10 led's instead of 5 hid and my electricity bill didn't shoot up.

3.) There is no heat signature from the LEDs. Anyone using a heat sensor/detector looking to do me harm will pass me by now. I'm invisible.

These are my own personal thoughts of course and promoting a discussion is great, its how we grow XD

 

[Bumping Spheda]

Hey, man. Here's the link that I remember reading on the subject of "LED vs HID efficiency."
http://www.innovativelight.com/led_facts/hid-vs-led-lighting/

As for yield, if you get 1gpw with either HID or LED you're considered a good grower by most.

Many LED panels emit enough IR light to be very traceable by the same equipment that's busted many an HID user.

LED's are sweet (we're all here talking about them, right?), but I feel their benefits are a little more difficult to pinpoint than saying, "They are more efficient (produce less heat)." Hopefully as LED technology gets better it will be that easy. I feel that perhaps with a very select number of brands/bins this may already be the case, yet, to what extent...? If LED's were that good I'd be crazy to be so short sighted.

 

[Kill a Watt]

OP,

you care to post your results from your led grow?

 

[hyroot]

Hey, man. Here's the link that I remember reading on the subject of "LED vs HID efficiency."
http://www.innovativelight.com/led_facts/hid-vs-led-lighting/

As for yield, if you get 1gpw with either HID or LED you're considered a good grower by most.

Many LED panels emit enough IR light to be very traceable by the same equipment that's busted many an HID user.

LED's are sweet (we're all here talking about them, right?), but I feel their benefits are a little more difficult to pinpoint than saying, "They are more efficient (produce less heat)." Hopefully as LED technology gets better it will be that easy. I feel that perhaps with a very select number of brands/bins this may already be the case, yet, to what extent...? If LED's were that good I'd be crazy to be so short sighted.

That whole article is talking about loss of lumens. Remember lumens mean absolutely nothing to.plants. Lumens by definition is visible light to the human eye. What we want is par and pur. Photisynthetically available / used radiation. By that led's are 80% efficient. If hid and led had the same effiiciency. It would take a 600 watt led to match a 600 watt hps. With usable light, hid is 10-20% efficient. Where led is much much more efficient.

 

[mtlhaze]

hi Bumping thanks for that link. It seems their information is for the sake of illustration however they bring up some interesting points. They use the term "lumens" instead PAR so I have no idea what to think about the type of research they did.

For the most part I heard people say LED and HID are the same in terms of consumption and efficiency before but it seems to be more of an opinion. Would love for anyone to help shed some light XD on any documented study.

As for IR I have a huge unit and it doesn't use more then 36 IR740 leds out of 336. Thanks for trying to make paranoid though! lol

Peace

 

[Bumping Spheda]

hi Bumping thanks for that link. It seems their information is for the sake of illustration however they bring up some interesting points. They use the term "lumens" instead PAR so I have no idea what to think about the type of research they did.

For the most part I heard people say LED and HID are the same in terms of consumption and efficiency before but it seems to be more of an opinion. Would love for anyone to help shed some light XD on any documented study.

As for IR I have a huge unit and it doesn't use more then 36 IR740 leds out of 336. Thanks for trying to make paranoid though!

I think it's pretty easy to see how many kWh's go into a grow and how many grams come out. There recently was an HID vs LED thread. It was pretty close. I think it would have been even closer if popcorn had been accounted for. Obviously, though, power in => grams out isn't everything...

I'm not trying to freak you out, but you're not invisible, that is enough IR to be traced. That being said, I HIGHLY doubt you'd get busted for growing like 5 plants. For the most part these guys aren't out to get a kid growing in their parents' closet, they're looking for very large commercial grows. How many times have you heard a news anchor say, "The police have reported that they've caught a high schooler growing Marijuana in his bedroom closet. They confiscated what is thought to be worth about $500 of the illegal substance. The young man will be tried in court this Thursday. More on that later..." No. Freaking. Way. It's always hundreds of pounds, along with narcotics and a bunch of unlicensed firearms. The only local seizure I've ever heard about was a multimillion dollar operation being performed in a nearby forest preserve. Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. Why do people say, "Stay safe and happy growing" around here? There's always the chance. And with that there should be a degree of fear and understanding, but more importantly concern for the people around you.

Take care, man.

 

[Kill a Watt]

mtl,

how much weight are you pulling from that led

 

[tags420]

How to choose an LED grow light?

THE OUTPUT:

How many units claim to be 300w? 600w? even 1000w led? Sellers will try anything to attract a sale. They use 3w chips, great. In fact they have 300 x 3w chips and the claim this is a 900w unit? Great? No... CHECK OR ASK THE ACTUAL POWER OUTPUT. Chances are they use a 300w power unit, which is slightly underpowered for 300 chips but is respectable. Their sales method however is not.

Now a buyer is comparing a $1000 "900w" to a $800 true 300w unit and really they are probably the same.

In the world of LED you CAN NOT power a chip to 100% power, it will burn the chip, regardless of quality within a few months plus the chip will burn off the extra power as heat NOT PAR.

As of now I use a 560w output unit and it is amazing and VERY strong. I will always go for the most powerful unit I can afford. If its too strong I can always lift the unit, but with a weak one I'm stuck.

Watts is confusing and misleading. You mentioned the par spectrum of light but it is the efficiency of absorption of certain wavelengths from the whole par spectrum that we care about. The measurement of the light from within that spectrum is "PAR output" measured in micro mols (umol) by a quantum meter. This is the most valid measurement of any light used for growing. With LED's we know what exact and ideal wavelengths are putout by the unit so all the umols are from those efficient wavelengths(usually/mostly red and blue). With HID's they can have a high par output but it is mostly in the unusable area(where lumens are measure from) that still is in the par spectrum. Most show a graph of the spectral output of the bulbs/units and when overlapping with the absorption curve you can easily see the inefficiency of HID and the efficiency of LED's of the outputs spectrums.

Basically get a the PAR output reading (umols) to compare LED units regardless of what the wattage is...output is output.

 

[|FCG|Frank]

It also helps to look and search around to find information on the actual customer service.

I don't know about you, but if I'm a new user who spends hundreds of dollars on a light, I expect to receive the respect I am entitled too as well as the support.

For instance, I purchased two lights from someone who makes good lights compared to Chinese LED, but that couldn't even ship both light to the right address (only one made it to me, the other was shipped entirely elsewhere and I had to ask for a refund). Amateur customer service doesn't make up for a good light, unless it's so good it can blow me and give me 1.5g/watt.

So people have to do their own research and homework first, BOTH on the technology, the specs AND the warranty AND customer service.

This hobby can be stressful enough as it is for the new grower, there's no need to be dealing with assholes on top of it. If people do their homework they will quickly realize that this hobby is a tank filled with dishonest sharks. You have to be REAL careful, unfortunately.

Good post!

 

[mtlhaze]

I think it's pretty easy to see how many kWh's go into a grow and how many grams come out. There recently was an HID vs LED thread. It was pretty close. I think it would have been even closer if popcorn had been accounted for. Obviously, though, power in => grams out isn't everything...

I'm not trying to freak you out, but you're not invisible, that is enough IR to be traced. That being said, I HIGHLY doubt you'd get busted for growing like 5 plants. For the most part these guys aren't out to get a kid growing in their parents' closet, they're looking for very large commercial grows. How many times have you heard a news anchor say, "The police have reported that they've caught a high schooler growing Marijuana in his bedroom closet. They confiscated what is thought to be worth about $500 of the illegal substance. The young man will be tried in court this Thursday. More on that later..." No. Freaking. Way. It's always hundreds of pounds, along with narcotics and a bunch of unlicensed firearms. The only local seizure I've ever heard about was a multimillion dollar operation being performed in a nearby forest preserve. Now, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. Why do people say, "Stay safe and happy growing" around here? There's always the chance. And with that there should be a degree of fear and understanding, but more importantly concern for the people around you.

Take care, man.

Agreed man, from people I know around here its always stealing electricity and commercial style op`s that will get you in trouble. Ive seen them use their cameras on tv, you can most likely find them on youtube. They look for something that looks like a glowing banana`from the helicopter or whatever they are in. Naturally when they see 15 or 20 in a row they found a target. I dont think a few dots would even show up for them. Im sure I even have some in my led tv`s.

As for power in to grams yielded LED`s will NOT produce the same yield as HID (in my experience). Not any that I have tried. If you HAVE to have an approximate yield ratio I would say about 20% less Yield with 25% additional Veg.

Its not pretty in numbers but Im not a commercial guy, its just for wife (she has alot of pain and in Quebec they rather give her Morphine!)

keep in Mind I will use 5x 560w leds instead of 3x 1000w HID using less power and the yield comes out the same, maybe a little more but initial $$ is obviously pretty high. they also stay beautifully compact and thick, they are so beautiful in veg.

 

[nabux]

First poster here (though a long-time lurker).

To OP: Thank so much for this info. Saved me some $$$ and a lot of hassle. Never got so much benefit from a single post!

 

[mtlhaze]

First poster here (though a long-time lurker).

To OP: Thank so much for this info. Saved me some $$$ and a lot of hassle. Never got so much benefit from a single post!

Does OP mean "Original Poster"? Or was it some ones name? Lol sorry Im a nub here.

 

[RainerRocks]

Does OP mean "Original Poster"? Or was it some ones name? Lol sorry Im a nub here.

Yes it means "Original Poster" which is the person who started the thread.

 

[mtlhaze]

Yes it means "Original Poster" which is the person who started the thread.

Ah ok thanks, I saw it in other threads I was not sure lol, and you are very welcome nabux or anyone this thread helped. I don't want another single company selling cheap crap to make another $. Led is here to stay but only if we support progressive companies will we one day get the LED we are all waiting for.