So how about banning all semi-automatic weapons?

canndo

Well-Known Member
Telling a gun maker not to sell guns is like telling a toy company not to make toys; telling a gun company to redesign the safety on it's weapons would be like your paint example. Why should a gun company be liable for anything other than manufacturing issues? Before you get a gun from a manufacturer, they have to transfer control of it to a Federally licensed dealer. He is the one who actually sees the purchaser and transfers the weapon to him. The firearms company is no longer responsible or the gun once it is in the hands of the dealer.


We tell gun manufacturers that they are not to make fully automatic weapons or that they are not to sell those weapons to citizens. There are relatively few fully automatic weapons in our society, now why is that? is it because it is illegal for individuals to buy them or is it becuase it is illegal for manuracturers to sell them?
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
We tell gun manufacturers that they are not to make fully automatic weapons or that they are not to sell those weapons to citizens. There are relatively few fully automatic weapons in our society, now why is that? is it because it is illegal for individuals to buy them or is it becuase it is illegal for manuracturers to sell them?
I suggest answer "A". Gunmakers do make plenty of full-auto weapons for military and other uniformed agencies, and for export. cn
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Where? Most hunting guns I've seen are bolt-actions. cn
He is correct, the AR-15 platform is one of the most popular hunting rifles in the nation. 10 years ago , even 5 years ago he would have been wrong, but today everyone and their dog has a semi-auto or a AR, you could even call the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60 hunting rifles, they built 16 million of them so far.

You and I were brought up into a world of one shot one kill, where accuracy and shot placement were of paramount importance to ethically killing an animal for food. Today hunters like the capability of quick repeated shots if they miss. Personally I don't like the AR platform for hunting, too heavy, not accurate enough at long range and by the time you build AR into a accurate long range machine it has become too damned heavy to take anywhere by foot. I tend to hunt with a Winchester model 94 carbine from 1951 in "thutty thutty" my Remington 700 BPS in .308 Win or for the smaller stuff like the typical whitetail around here and smaller I just use the ultralight Weatherby SGL .223 which was only available in 1982. For plinking, the ultra reliable and oh so accurate Marlin model 39 is my go to gun, it literally has shot a fly's leg off at 50M. It cannot quite shoot the nuts off a gnat, but I try. I wouldn't hunt with a Semi-Auto unless I was planning on being attacked by the animals en mass. A Browning BAR always did interest me, beautiful guns.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
We tell gun manufacturers that they are not to make fully automatic weapons or that they are not to sell those weapons to citizens. There are relatively few fully automatic weapons in our society, now why is that? is it because it is illegal for individuals to buy them or is it becuase it is illegal for manuracturers to sell them?
because there were very few automatic weapons sold before the sale of machine guns was restricted in 1934, and made practically illegal in 1968.

there are remarkably few grenade crimes in america too, since grenades were put on the nono list in 1934 as well. at the time, restriction of machineguns (expensive and rarely used weapons) and grenades (almost unheardof outside the military) was considered reasonable and proper for a civilized society, particularly in the heyday of the motorized bandit gangs like the dillinger gang and bonnie and clyde, but if you tried to pass that same law today you would fail. too many poeople have seen that reasonable measures are just the first move, and the goalposts shift with alarming regularity. the old playbook of "Think Of The Children!" and "only wingnuts and birchers would want those kinds of MURDERGUNS!" will fall flat. even with the Brahmin in Chief's personal auctoritas pushing the bill forward.

his gravitas doesnt move the people like it used to, since he has revealed himself to be a stuffed shirt.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
We tell gun manufacturers that they are not to make fully automatic weapons or that they are not to sell those weapons to citizens. There are relatively few fully automatic weapons in our society, now why is that? is it because it is illegal for individuals to buy them or is it becuase it is illegal for manuracturers to sell them?
Its neither. It is legal for the manufacturer to sell full auto weapons to the general public, as long as that person has the proper permits. As long as you can pass a background checks and pay the fees and do the paperwork you too can own as many fully automatic weapons as you would like, heck you can have tanks and even artillery if you want. Mines, grenades, the whole shebang. The reason why most people don't bother getting a full auto weapon is because to get one legally costs starting at around $20,000, probably twice as much now that the media is blitzing gun control.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Its neither. It is legal for the manufacturer to sell full auto weapons to the general public, as long as that person has the proper permits. As long as you can pass a background checks and pay the fees and do the paperwork you too can own as many fully automatic weapons as you would like, heck you can have tanks and even artillery if you want. Mines, grenades, the whole shebang. The reason why most people don't bother getting a full auto weapon is because to get one legally costs starting at around $20,000, probably twice as much now that the media is blitzing gun control.

So gun control DOES work.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
He is correct, the AR-15 platform is one of the most popular hunting rifles in the nation. 10 years ago , even 5 years ago he would have been wrong, but today everyone and their dog has a semi-auto or a AR, you could even call the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin 60 hunting rifles, they built 16 million of them so far.

You and I were brought up into a world of one shot one kill, where accuracy and shot placement were of paramount importance to ethically killing an animal for food. Today hunters like the capability of quick repeated shots if they miss. Personally I don't like the AR platform for hunting, too heavy, not accurate enough at long range and by the time you build AR into a accurate long range machine it has become too damned heavy to take anywhere by foot. I tend to hunt with a Winchester model 94 carbine from 1951 in "thutty thutty" my Remington 700 BPS in .308 Win or for the smaller stuff like the typical whitetail around here and smaller I just use the ultralight Weatherby SGL .223 which was only available in 1982. For plinking, the ultra reliable and oh so accurate Marlin model 39 is my go to gun, it literally has shot a fly's leg off at 50M. It cannot quite shoot the nuts off a gnat, but I try. I wouldn't hunt with a Semi-Auto unless I was planning on being attacked by the animals en mass. A Browning BAR always did interest me, beautiful guns.
too heavy? i hunt with an enfeild no 1 mk 3, a remington model 8 (semi auto of browning design) a brazilian large ring 7mm mauser a remington model 7 in 30/06 and a winchester 1895 in 30/30, each one is far heavier than my brother's AR, and each one packs plenty of one shot kill.

i've never used my grandpappy's rifle to snap off rapid fire after a miss, it's just nice having the autoloading action in case you come up against a bear, or if the boar doesnt go down as neatly as you'd hoped.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
So gun control DOES work.
it works because we have ALLOWED it to work. many regret accepting even that "reasonable" restriction since it is the camel's nose under the tent.

also,, way to be gleeful at the prospect of a useless gun ban. machine gun crime was rare as shit in 1934 when the restrictions on automatics began, automatic weapon fire is MORE common today particularly if you live in LA or oakland.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
it works because we have ALLOWED it to work. many regret accepting even that "reasonable" restriction since it is the camel's nose under the tent.

also,, way to be gleeful at the prospect of a useless gun ban. machine gun crime was rare as shit in 1934 when the restrictions on automatics began, automatic weapon fire is MORE common today particularly if you live in LA or oakland.
Exactly! This is the reason that second amendment defenders are intractable.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
too heavy? i hunt with an enfeild no 1 mk 3, a remington model 8 (semi auto of browning design) a brazilian large ring 7mm mauser a remington model 7 in 30/06 and a winchester 1895 in 30/30, each one is far heavier than my brother's AR, and each one packs plenty of one shot kill.

i've never used my grandpappy's rifle to snap off rapid fire after a miss, it's just nice having the autoloading action in case you come up against a bear, or if the boar doesnt go down as neatly as you'd hoped.
You probably don't walk 10-20 miles a day while hunting do you? Weight becomes an important factor when you have to hoof it everywhere. Hell when I was in the Marines I carried a M-16, 120 rounds of ammo, a 80 pound ruck sack, a 60 pound mortar base plate and about 20 pounds of ancillary combat gear. Then we went on 80 Kilometer hikes through the Mojave desert. I prefer to be less encumbered now that its 30 years later, old knees, old shoulders don't work as well as they used to.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
it works because we have ALLOWED it to work. many regret accepting even that "reasonable" restriction since it is the camel's nose under the tent.

also,, way to be gleeful at the prospect of a useless gun ban. machine gun crime was rare as shit in 1934 when the restrictions on automatics began, automatic weapon fire is MORE common today particularly if you live in LA or oakland.

But it does work.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
does work to do what? Control guns? yep you're right. gun control controls guns, does controlling guns mean less crime? Or does it just mean less GUN crime?

Logical thought is logical

Very few mass shootings using fully automatic weapons and very few uses of hand grenades. It does work. If you are contending that unless gun control controls all crims then it isn't worth it, then no laws at all make sense as laws against theft don't stop rape either.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Very few mass shootings using fully automatic weapons and very few uses of hand grenades. It does work. If you are contending that unless gun control controls all crims then it isn't worth it, then no laws at all make sense as laws against theft don't stop rape either.
No what I am saying is what good does banning guns do when you stop 50 gun deaths but increase knife deaths by 100. What good did banning the gun do? All you did was disarm the victim so now they cannot defend themselves. You made things worse, but at least you can trumpet your victory at having lessened the deaths by guns, which we all know instant painless death by gun is way worse than slow death by blood loss. You have convinced me.

of course very few automatic weapons are used, they are very few and far between, not because of the ban on them, but because of the exorbitant cost, which the cost is not controlled by the government.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
No what I am saying is what good does banning guns do when you stop 50 gun deaths but increase knife deaths by 100. What good did banning the gun do? All you did was disarm the victim so now they cannot defend themselves. You made things worse, but at least you can trumpet your victory at having lessened the deaths by guns, which we all know instant painless death by gun is way worse than slow death by blood loss. You have convinced me.

of course very few automatic weapons are used, they are very few and far between, not because of the ban on them, but because of the exorbitant cost, which the cost is not controlled by the government.

Those 20 kindergardeners should have been armed? All I am saying is that the banning of fully automatic weapons has managed to keep most automatic weapons out of most civilian hands and few mass shootings are committed with fully automatic weapons. Now it is possible that all of the last few mass killings could have been committed with knives, but it would be very unlikely. Now I see that you are reverting to the relative mereits of death by gunshot to death by knife wound. THAT is a reasonable argument for the widespread use of guns if ever I have seen one.
 
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