Does CO2 cause global warming? Is it good to reduce CO2? Who the Frack cares!

[nontheist]

Ah but it's predictable, can you say the same for weather and land prices?

I don't even know why we're having this discussion we have enough NG to get by us a 100years or so to figure this out. We have every artery (old wells) of this nation filled and still produce 1000x more than we need at this current time.

 

[canndo]

First of all our space fixtures don't have the unpredictability of the earths atmosphere. Second who's going to buy all this land, land is expensive and so is solar power. Third you're potentially destroying one recourse for another LAND what happens when populations start to swell and land has increased value by 5000x?. Coal is not subpar we can build it and know exactly what production rate it will produce.

Coal is 19th century energy. Coal is intrinsicly dirty which means that the majority of technology goes toward cleaing it up to make it suitable for use as fuel. Wind and solar need no such technology. Solar may not be as efficient as it should be but if you add scrubbers and CO2 capturing technology, you don't get much more efficiency. If you add mining and transportation of coal into the mix you don't do very well at all.

When populations start to swell we can put them on the mountain tops that were carved up in order to get us the coal.

 

[ginjawarrior]

State and federal regulations cost years and of all of the sorts of things that might call for relaxation of regulations, nuclear is not one of them. California has run into a huge problem with one of its nuclear facilities. I believe the bill will be close to a billion dollars to fix the problem, it is so massive that there are serious considerations of simply shutting down that portion of the plant.

Recall also that our plans for storage of waste have never been completed. Even if they are, there are soverignty issues and transportation problems that need to be worked out (if they can ever be). it is going to be a number of years even if you can put a plant up in 60 months as is being stated for the newest facilities.

thats why i said "commitment" california from what i've surmised is one of the worst places when it comes down to population paranoia`

for this issue im more than happy for the government to not give a fuck about the NIMBY's and just get on with whats needed

 

[abandonconflict]

try that in a city where a very large proportion of the population of the world lives...

I was in a city. My dad does the same thing in San Diego. Granted, it takes an initial investment to get the panels but the government in Germany is already subsidizing their program. This type of set up is not at all profitable for energy companies, but neither is Germany's, so choose between clean and profitable.

I have a totally boot leg set up now with 12v DC, inverter and panels and it cost me several thousand to get it all set up but I even run my 600 watt HPS lights so it pays for itself over time. Some counties in the US have laws against that.

 

[ginjawarrior]

I don't even know why we're having this discussion we have enough NG to get by us a 100years or so to figure this out. We have every artery (old wells) of this nation filled and still produce 1000x more than we need at this current time.

haven't you read the newsletter?

CO2 is messing up this world in ways we didnt realise when we started using it

 

[canndo]

Ah but it's predictable, can you say the same for weather and land prices?

This strikes me as oddly ironic. excessive CO2 in the atmosphere is likely what will cause us to lose useable land and inflict upon humans ever more unpredictable and dangerous weather.

 

[ginjawarrior]

I was in a city. My dad does the same thing in San Diego. Granted, it takes an initial investment to get the panels but the government in Germany is already subsidizing their program. This type of set up is not at all profitable for energy companies.

I have a totally boot leg set up now with 12v DC, inverter and panels and it cost me several thousand to get it all set up but I even run my 600 watt HPS lights so it pays for itself over time. Some counties in the US have laws against that.

germany by no way shape or form has it up and running

in a world with highrises it just isnt feasable

 

[Grandpapy]

Because today the money is in oil.

 

[abandonconflict]

germany by no way shape or form has it up and running

in a world with highrises it just isnt feasable

I live in the world...

 

[ginjawarrior]

Because today the money is in oil.

here in the uk energy companies are ready to build nuclear plants without subsides oil is starting to get to expensive

 

[canndo]

thats why i said "commitment" california from what i've surmised is one of the worst places when it comes down to population paranoia`

for this issue im more than happy for the government to not give a fuck about the NIMBY's and just get on with whats needed

Really? so the U.S. should sign Kyoto, it should levy a large energy tax and it should put the proceeds toward new energy technology - just get on with what's needed right?

In a case such as this, where large portions of the population can be endangered and large tracts of land rendered unuseable for decades if not longer, it would probably be wise to adhere to all government standards rather than any get it done quick philosophy.

 

[ginjawarrior]

I live in the world...

well done

now grow up for a second and look at the reality that this "world" faces

 

[ginjawarrior]

Really? so the U.S. should sign Kyoto, it should levy a large energy tax and it should put the proceeds toward new energy technology - just get on with what's needed right?

In a case such as this, where large portions of the population can be endangered and large tracts of land rendered unuseable for decades if not longer, it would probably be wise to adhere to all government standards rather than any get it done quick philosophy.

kyoto didnt go half as far

what case "such as this" are you talking about?

 

[abandonconflict]

well done

now grow up for a second and look at the reality that this "world" faces

Like I said, you're missing my point. Instead of putting it off as society's problem, which I agree with, realize that you contribute to the problem because you are part of society. I'm part of the solution, because I don't contribute to fossil fuel demand.

Since you are so confrontational and just want to "Win" debates, you ignored what I said a page back, that I agree with you, I am just saying that it should not over shadow the reality that the world faces, which is that as long as you put money into the energy grid, you are asking for fracking and condoning off shore drilling and the invasion of Iraq. At the core this problem is caused by a faulty economic model. The tech won't be developed because it isn't profitable. Sitting with your thumb up your ass blaming society because THEY don't build you a nuclear plant is not doing anything to face this reality. What I have done, by buying solar panels, has very much been action taken against this crisis that threatens our species.

Grow up and look at how YOU contribute to that crisis.

 

[canndo]

kyoto didnt go half as far




what case "such as this" are you talking about?

A case such as this, building and operating a facility that has the capacity of poisoning the air land and water for decades, killing tes or hundreds of thousands and rendering entire cities uninhabitable.

 

[mccumcumber]

A theory cannot be "proven" until all axioms governing the universe to which said theory is a subset of are known.

What does this mean?

Yes, evolution, flight, relativity... Etc are true and work with what we know. However, what we know about our universe makes up about 1x10^-google of it. So no, we cannot say we have proven anything about science, because shit could change. Relativity kicking Newtonian physics in the nuts applies here.

You can, nevertheless, make a proof if your universe is, for sake of example, the real numbers. There are plenty of cool proofs that you could look up regarding them, if you so choose.

 

[ginjawarrior]

A case such as this, building and operating a facility that has the capacity of poisoning the air land and water for decades, killing tes or hundreds of thousands and rendering entire cities uninhabitable.

and refer you back to my previous post rather than address that strawman

for clarification im suggesting gen 3 nuclear power that do not have the shortcoming of the BWR plant of archaic design

you might need to read up on nuclear power rather than making it the bogeyman that i said it was in my first post here

 

[ginjawarrior]

Like I said, you're missing my point. Instead of putting it off as society's problem, which I agree with, realize that you contribute to the problem because you are part of society. I'm part of the solution, because I don't contribute to fossil fuel demand.

Since you are so confrontational and just want to "Win" debates, you ignored what I said a page back, that I agree with you, I am just saying that it should not over shadow the reality that the world faces, which is that as long as you put money into the energy grid, you are asking for fracking and condoning off shore drilling and the invasion of Iraq. At the core this problem is caused by a faulty economic model. The tech won't be developed because it isn't profitable. Sitting with your thumb up your ass blaming society because THEY don't build you a nuclear plant is not doing anything to face this reality. What I have done, by buying solar panels, has very much been action taken against this crisis that threatens our species.

Grow up and look at how YOU contribute to that crisis.

lol idealism doent help anything but thanks for typing

 

[abandonconflict]

lol idealism doent help anything but thanks for typing

See what you did there? Idealism about Nuclear not being risky, but continuing with the idea that it is helping to do nothing and wait for the government to build you a nuclear plant

 

[abandonconflict]

While you're stuck in idealism, the third world is full of adults poised to pass us by.