Abortion, if you object does that mean you want to control women's uteri

[Red1966]

I know 2 women who had abortions and say they regretted it . 1 can't have any more children because of the procedure . Another woman I know had the child and gave it up . She has spent her life trying to contact her son and to establish a relationship , it really messed her up . I'm glad I don't have to ever be in that position , which is why I can't say other than let the individual decide what to do . After all they are the one it effects most .

The child is affected much more than the mother.

 

[UncleBuck]

A majority of women disagree with you on this issue. Odd that.

not the point.

you call yourself a "libertarian" but argue for your imposition of morality to override others' autonomy and liberty to exercise control over their own bodies.

do you think if all restrictions on abortions were lifted tonight that women would get knocked up and abort crowning babies tomorrow?

your argument is basically that women are stupid and need morality police like you to lord their laws over them. not only is it misogynistic, it flies in the face of your self-described political philosophy of liberty.

i don't understand how you're not getting this. but i am enjoying watching you make an ass out of yourself.

 

[timbo123]

so, your autonomy extends to other vaginas besides your own?

poor example there. maybe sit the next few rounds out.

These aren't "rounds" Buck. Everything isn't a fight.
What can I say? I likes me some vagina.

There are two bodies whose sanctity must be considered at some point along the way.

 

[UncleBuck]

So your wife can "abort" you, then?

you consistently display deep misunderstandings of how women's bodies work.

my wife did not gestate me.

and when my wife is already bleeding out of her vagina such that we can't have sex anyway, she is not using her menstrual pains as an excuse to not have sex. that's already precluded by the whole bleeding out of the vagina thing.

are you sure you're not a virgin?

 

[desert dude]

By strict adherence to the "yield autonomy of their bodies" line of thinking, don't all of us yield autonomy of our bodies at a certain point in a society that imposes laws on it's citizens? I can't say to the hottie in front of me in line at the supermarket "Sorry ma'am, you're gonna need to bend over. It's my body and my penis wants to be lodged inside you for a few minutes..." I can't use my body to impose an unwanted "mosh pit" situation in the lobby of my local bank or BMV lobby.
The 'sanctity of the body' shizz only goes so far.

True. Even if you rely on the sanctity of the body argument, doesn't a fully formed infant have a bit of sanctity?

 

[UncleBuck]

These aren't "rounds" Buck. Everything isn't a fight.
What can I say? I likes me some vagina.

There are two bodies whose sanctity must be considered at some point along the way.

i suppose it would be a horrible idea to give that decision to the person who gestates the other. better let the morality police like stormfront red and stormfront desert meth snorter impose their morals upon others by force of law.

because these killer women simply can not be trusted.

 

[cannabineer]

The child is affected much more than the mother.

What child? Imo this is a big part of the problem in debating this topic: begging the moral question by introducing terms like this. (It's reminiscent of the propaganda billboards calling it "a child, not a choice".) If a woman has an abortion at month 5 ... what child? cn

 

[Red1966]

idk, if a fetus can't survive outside of the mothers womb on it's own, it's kind of hard to call it a living thing imo.. anything like cannabineer said, third trimester or so is pretty bad as i believe you're killing something that could survive outside of the uterus ... but yah, i think it's trying to control a women's body for sure... most people who don't want to carry to term usually have some pretty solid reasons for doing so, ie, they're young, don't have good jobs, etc, or plain old don't won't a kid right now.. have you ever tried growing up knowing that your parents didn't want you? it's no good to say the least.. people always bitch about people on welfare and programs like wic et al, but then they at the same time don't want to allow abortions.. idk, i don't get it..

With those "solid" reasons, why is she having sex? Have you ever tried growing up after being diced into small pieces? It's no good to say the least..

 

[UncleBuck]

What child? Imo this is a big part of the problem in debating this topic: begging the moral question by introducing terms like this. (It's reminiscent of the propaganda billboards calling it "a child, not a choice".) If a woman has an abortion at month 5 ... what child? cn

let red have his loaded language, that way we know what he's thumping.

 

[cannabineer]

By strict adherence to the "yield autonomy of their bodies" line of thinking, don't all of us yield autonomy of our bodies at a certain point in a society that imposes laws on it's citizens? I can't say to the hottie in front of me in line at the supermarket "Sorry ma'am, you're gonna need to bend over. It's my body and my penis wants to be lodged inside you for a few minutes..." I can't use my body to impose an unwanted "mosh pit" situation in the lobby of my local bank or BMV lobby.
The 'sanctity of the body' shizz only goes so far.

It seems a logical contortion to me to dismiss the concept of having autonomy over one's own body ... by using examples of violating that/those of others. To develop this argument you need to make it apples/apples imo. cn

 

[UncleBuck]

why is she having sex?

asked every republican virgin ever.

 

[timbo123]

i suppose it would be a horrible idea to give that decision to the person who gestates the other. better let the morality police like stormfront red and stormfront desert meth snorter impose their morals upon others by force of law.

because these killer women simply can not be trusted.

Why are you hung up on bestowing certain privileges upon someone for the simple act of 'gestating'? Why not leave it up to the father? He has an equal chunk of DNA floating around inside there too? Your friend Red did have a point though about the 'war on poverty'... If an would-be unfit mother finds herself gestating, why should that be a legal reason to kill the baby? Who unlike the mother, may grow up and be "fit" to thrive in our society... why not kill the mother and have the kid take up her space?

 

[desert dude]

not the point.

you call yourself a "libertarian" but argue for your imposition of morality to override others' autonomy and liberty to exercise control over their own bodies.

do you think if all restrictions on abortions were lifted tonight that women would get knocked up and abort crowning babies tomorrow?

your argument is basically that women are stupid and need morality police like you to lord their laws over them. not only is it misogynistic, it flies in the face of your self-described political philosophy of liberty.

i don't understand how you're not getting this. but i am enjoying watching you make an ass out of yourself.

I am a libertarian yet I fully support laws against murder, armed robbery, assault, kidnapping... In that same vein of thought, I fully support laws against murdering infants. I don't understand how anybody could condone a late term abortion done for convenience.

I don't know what makes you think I believe women are stupid, especially when a majority of them agree with me on the issue of abortion, not to mention that I am married to a woman and have a 24 year old daughter and two grand daughters.

I don't understand what makes you think a libertarian would support murdering people. Just for clarification, libertarians do NOT support murder.

 

[cannabineer]

Why are you hung up on bestowing certain privileges upon someone for the simple act of 'gestating'? Why not leave it up to the father? He has an equal chunk of DNA floating around inside there too? Your friend Red did have a point though about the 'war on poverty'... If an would-be unfit mother finds herself gestating, why should that be a legal reason to kill the baby? Who unlike the mother, may grow up and be "fit" to thrive in our society... why not kill the mother and have the kid take up her space?

Who gets to rule that the mother is would-be-unfit? A grave moral watershed is buried in those words ... imo. cn

 

[timbo123]

It seems a logical contortion to me to dismiss the concept of having autonomy over one's own body ... by using examples of violating that/those of others. To develop this argument you need to make it apples/apples imo. cn

Apologies. I assumed that everyone would be able to make the correlation that the mother making a "choice" over a full term, unborn baby is akin to making a choice over SOMEONE else's body... such as me making a choice about the vag of the hottie in line... or the broken hips of the elderly bank patrons.

 

[UncleBuck]

the simple act of 'gestating'?

why not kill the mother and have the kid take up her space?

these statements betray quite the lack of biological understanding.

gestating would never be described as a "simple act" and the gestated depends on the gestater to survive.

but yes, playing morality police works well, so we should probably keep barking up that tree.

 

[UncleBuck]

I am a libertarian yet I fully support laws against murder, armed robbery, assault, kidnapping... In that same vein of thought, I fully support laws against murdering infants. I don't understand how anybody could condone a late term abortion done for convenience.

I don't know what makes you think I believe women are stupid, especially when a majority of them agree with me on the issue of abortion, not to mention that I am married to a woman and have a 24 year old daughter and two grand daughters.

I don't understand what makes you think a libertarian would support murdering people. Just for clarification, libertarians do NOT support murder.

if your daughters and granddaughters are not stupid, why do they need morality police to charge them with manslaughter if they violate your moral line in the sand?

don't you think that they'd be smart enough to exercise control over their bodies as responsibly as they could?

nice loaded language there, by the way.

 

[UncleBuck]

Apologies. I assumed that everyone would be able to make the correlation that the mother making a "choice" over a full term, unborn baby is akin to making a choice over SOMEONE else's body... such as me making a choice about the vag of the hottie in line... or the broken hips of the elderly bank patrons.

how did that analogy escape us?

the relationship between mother and fetus is completely akin to raping the girl in front of you at the supermarket.

 

[timbo123]

these statements betray quite the lack of biological understanding.

gestating would never be described as a "simple act" and the gestated depends on the gestater to survive.

but yes, playing morality police works well, so we should probably keep barking up that tree.

Gestating is as automatic as breathing or shitting. I never met a mom who couldn't master it. Simple.

 

[UncleBuck]

Gestating is as automatic as breathing or shitting. I never met a mom who couldn't master it. Simple.

i'm pretty good at breathing, and i've never had to regurgitate for weeks on end due to the practice. nor has breathing ever caused me much pain to stand and walk nor made me want to consume massive amounts of food.

unless i breathed in the devil's vapor.