I honestly believed.

[cannabineer]

Sometimes people on drugs say crazy shit. He never minced words. I will say this about Stalinism though, it was a very right winged regime and the society it ruled was extremely stratified. It was an extreme example of right wing, passing itself off to the world as the epitome of left wing. France today, is the the furthest left any state has ever trod. The description that FDR used of his stance as 'slightly left of center' was accurate.

He might not have minced words, but he sure sautéed them with abandon. cn

 

[abandonconflict]

He might not have minced words, but he sure sautéed them with abandon. cn

You clearly march to your own drumbeat. I am curious as to who you consider to be an agreeable philosopher. Also, I don't agree with all of McKenna's views and I don't listen to his speeches for political insight, I listen for guidance on psychedelics. Clearly, you are rejecting his views based on political perspective and so now I am really curious, because you have only been rejecting philosophers. Ayn Rand wasn't a utopian imo, she was a dystopian. Marx was a Utopian but I agree his philosophy was based on his methodology which I agree was flawed. I name a philosopher who stayed out of politics (aside from how the drugs he loved were under unfavorable political status) and you reject him for political reasons.

I can name several other philosophers I have read who contributed to my world view and therefore my political views but who generally did not directly deal with politics and some who did very much (Marx is not one of those). Adam Smith actually affected me far more than Marx. Noam Chomsky is prominent in my list as is Thomas Jefferson but that is not to say I agree with every view of either of them. I avoid statements that narrow sources of knowledge. I would rather pick from every genre than to stick to one.

 

[abandonconflict]

Oh Iv expanded it to "breaking point" bro, trust me on that

I don't believe you. The most common effect of all psychedelics is oneness and harmony with nature and other people and you seem fearful of even thinking of oneness and harmony and would therefore have "bad trips".

 

[WeedPublican]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMH18WIuIQk

I supported, argued and clawed and scratched and fought. I thought this 2nd term would be progressive. Instead, we have been focused on Twinkies, Petraeus and he actually Mitt flopped on one of his stances I most respected, which was that he supported the people of Palestine.When will he be progressive? When will he reschedule? I regret defending him.

At the end of the day you can only vote for who is running. The candidates were Obama and Romney, would you have rather had Romney in office? Can you imagine the BACKWARDS progress we would be making if Romney was in office? I think you can thats why you voted Obama correct?

My point is you can only vote for the better of the two candidates, no matter who it is running. Obama's plan may be slow but it was the better of the two

 

[abandonconflict]

At the end of the day you can only vote for who is running. The candidates were Obama and Romney, would you have rather had Romney in office? Can you imagine the BACKWARDS progress we would be making if Romney was in office? I think you can thats why you voted Obama correct?

My point is you can only vote for the better of the two candidates, no matter who it is running. Obama's plan may be slow but it was the better of the two

I did support Obama and I am grateful that Rmoney did not win but I voted for Jill Stein.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Sometimes people on drugs say crazy shit. He never minced words. I will say this about Stalinism though, it was a very right winged regime and the society it ruled was extremely stratified. It was an extreme example of right wing, passing itself off to the world as the epitome of left wing. France today, is the the furthest left any state has ever trod. The description that FDR used of his stance as 'slightly left of center' was accurate.

you are once again redefining the left/right dichotomy as good/evil, or i suppose more accurately, favoured/not favoured

stalinism is not right wing, it is in fact the worst kind of left wing.

autocratic control of the entire state by madcap bureaucrats accountable to no-one but their liege lord and his politburo is NOT right wing.

stalin's government was still the same revolutionary marxist regime established by lenin trotsky and the other bolsheviks. stalin just took it to it's most perfect form, where the state controls every aspect of life from cradle to grave with their secret police and rat squads.

left economics are state control and state mandate
right economics are free enterprise and private capital

left social policy is control and mandate to ensure purity of purpose and furtherance of the state's agenda
right social policies are freedom, liberty, and independence of thought and action from state influence

left nationalism policy is the state above all, and individuals are only there to serve the needs of the state and it's agenda.
right nationalism policy is the individual before the state, and the state's responsibility to further the freedoms of the individual.

we can only discuss left and right from firmly established positions. or can we all redefine these categories to suit our own personal beliefs as well?

if you cannot adhere to the conventions of left vs right, then your use of the terms has no meaning.

 

[abandonconflict]

if you cannot adhere to the conventions of left vs right, then your use of the terms has no meaning.

right back at ya

 

[abandonconflict]

The Left vs Right paradigm is a metaphor originating in the French Revolution. It refers to the seating arrangement of the parliamentary hall. On the left sat those in favor of change ranging from progress to revolution opposed to old power structures (monarchy, socioeconomic stratification) and on the right, sat those conservatives who wished to preserve the old power structure and "let them eat cake".

Therefore any statist regime with a dictator wielding absolute power resembles more the aims of those sitting on the right than those of the left.

What you fail to see is that I oppose Marxist revolution probably more than you do, even if I agree with a few of his views. This is called open-mindedness.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I don't believe you. The most common effect of all psychedelics is oneness and harmony with nature and other people and you seem fearful of even thinking of oneness and harmony and would therefore have "bad trips".

the most common effect of hallucinatory substances is freakouts, madness and unreasoning terror.

thats why ergot poisoning is the suspected cause of the salem witch trials as well as a few other similar actions in history.

hallucinatory substances do not create a "oneness with nature" or "peace love and understanding" or "harmony" unless you fully expect them to do so, and intended to have the experience. those who have been dosed without their consent never have a good time.

my hallucinogenic substance rides were generally pleasant and delightfully wacky, they were not deep spiritual awakenings, any more then a 3 day whiskey bender is a religious experience.
getting plastered is getting plastered, and dressing it up in preistly robes doesnt add legitimacy to it. in fact it robs the experience of its personal nature and places it in the same category as snake handling, speaking in tongues or religious conniption fits in the aisle.

your statement above is the same sort of crap pentecostals use when their prayer hankies didnt cure the sucker's cancer, "YOU just didnt have enough faith. YOU just need to pray harder and but a new prayer hankie"

you are using the same arguments that religious leaders through the ages have used.

might wanna meditate on that, before whoever cast the bait into your pond decides to set the hook.

 

[abandonconflict]

the most common effect of hallucinatory substances is freakouts, madness and unreasoning terror.

hallucinatory substances do not create a "oneness with nature" or "peace love and understanding" or "harmony" unless you fully expect them to do so.

I exclude your rant about pentacostal faith as another of your strawboys. These two statements are gleaned only from your experience and not from what is considered common and even so, I think you know you're lying in both.

 

[cannabineer]

the most common effect of hallucinatory substances is freakouts, madness and unreasoning terror.

thats why ergot poisoning is the suspected cause of the salem witch trials as well as a few other similar actions in history.

hallucinatory substances do not create a "oneness with nature" or "peace love and understanding" or "harmony" unless you fully expect them to do so, and intended to have the experience. those who have been dosed without their consent never have a good time.

my hallucinogenic substance rides were generally pleasant and delightfully wacky, they were not deep spiritual awakenings, any more then a 3 day whiskey bender is a religious experience.
getting plastered is getting plastered, and dressing it up in preistly robes doesnt add legitimacy to it. in fact it robs the experience of its personal nature and places it in the same category as snake handling, speaking in tongues or religious conniption fits in the aisle.

your statement above is the same sort of crap pentecostals use when their prayer hankies didnt cure the sucker's cancer, "YOU just didnt have enough faith. YOU just need to pray harder and but a new prayer hankie"

you are using the same arguments that religious leaders through the ages have used.

might wanna meditate on that, before whoever cast the bait into your pond decides to set the hook.

My psychedelic experiences otoh have been
1) hard work, and
2) almost frankly animistic. I have no trouble believing that psychedelics tickle the same circuitry we use when contemplating (experiencing) soul. cn

 

[abandonconflict]

My psychedelic experiences otoh have been
1) hard work, and
2) almost frankly animistic. I have no trouble believing that psychedelics tickle the same circuitry we use when contemplating (experiencing) soul. cn

The catch, is that they are personal experiences that cannot be proven or measured by anyone other than the person experiencing them.

 

[ChesusRice]

The catch, is that they are personal experiences that cannot be proven or measured by anyone other than the person experiencing them.

Mescaline is a experience only for those who have nothing to do for 18 hours

 

[abandonconflict]

Mescaline is a experience only for those who have nothing to do for 18 hours

I relived repressed memories on peyote, I would say that trip presented to me how I became who I am and therefore offered me a way to rethink how I grew intellectually and, well, spiritually.

I got an even better experience of similar type from Ibogaine and I feel I benefited more from a single experience from it also.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The Left vs Right paradigm is a metaphor originating in the French Revolution. It refers to the seating arrangement of the parliamentary hall. On the left sat those in favor of change ranging from progress to revolution opposed to old power structures (monarchy, socioeconomic stratification) and on the right, sat those conservatives who wished to preserve the old power structure and "let them eat cake".

Therefore any statist regime with a dictator wielding absolute power resembles more the aims of those sitting on the right than those of the left.

What you fail to see is that I oppose Marxist revolution probably more than you do, even if I agree with a few of his views. This is called open-mindedness.

the right is defined as those supporting the current power structure, and the traditional ways (which in the USA is exactly what i described) and the left is the opposition which wants to go the other direction, which in the US would be marxism socialism communism statism autocracy etc..

the french left wing was the party of Robespierre and Le Grand Terror, while the conservative and right party was the one dedicated to the old ways, which were at the time, the values of the enlightenment if not liberalism.

as the US Constitution represents the most Classically Liberal governing system on earth, conservatism seeks to protect that 'tradition" while the left seeks to Change it blindly in the Hope that whatever comes next will be better.

your tired old argument that "Left" = everything good all the time and "Right" = everything bad and oppressive does not work.

some aspects of leftism are good, but the general result of rampant leftism is NOT.

some actual Far Left governments:

Nazi Germany: Hitler won the chancellorship on promises of "income equality" and "fairness" as well as restoring state prestige and nationalism
Fascist Italy: Mussolin won on "Third Way Socialism" based on classic marxist socialism and just a twist of free market down at the bottom for the Plebs
North Korea: Kim won on the good old marxist bait and switch communist promise hiding the socialist barbed hook.
Leninist Soviet Russia: Bolshevik revolution, for the proletariat! yay! communism is almost within reach!
Stalinist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: And Stalin gave a little tug on the line to set the hook. the rest is leftist history
Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge: Marxist bait and switch plus mass murder of anyone who wears glasses... ?! i dont know why.
Idi Amin's Uganda: marxist bait and switch plus cannibalism Om Nom Nom
Syria: marxist bait and switch, with islamic theocratic elements, which of course evaporated once the military junta had control
Iran: theoctatic islamic socialism that actually delivered on it's promises of islamic theocracy and not too heavy handed socialism.
Cuba: "communist" revolution evolves into socialist military junta once fidel got that annoying true believer che guevarra out of the way...
etc etc etc

the far right has a few real stinkers in the bank too, but the far right rarely racks up the sheer bodycount of the left.

Actual Far Right governments:

Saddam Hussein's Bathist Kleptocracy: look everybody! we are islamic theocratic socialists.... and then off comes the mask and he is just a grasping thieving plutocrat with a real flair for rape rooms.
The Wiemar Republic: how to bankrupt a nation and get rich doing it.
The British East India Company: Lol! The first Corporate Raiders in history!
Batista's Cuba: Hispaniola just cant catch a break! first held in serfdom by this twat then held in chains by castro. next i guess theyll be taken over by zombies or some shit.

 

[cannabineer]

The catch, is that they are personal experiences that cannot be proven or measured by anyone other than the person experiencing them.

Just so. That is the barrier so far keeping psychedelic studies (a sort of cultural anthropology and thus essentially a literary pursuit) from becoming science.

The other big cavil imo is ... even within the unbroken bounds of self ... how to tell if a psychedelic experience is true? By this I don't mean factual but wise, morally sound. cn

 

[cannabineer]

the right is defined as those supporting the current power structure, and the traditional ways (which in the USA is exactly what i described) and the left is the opposition which wants to go the other direction, which in the US would be marxism socialism communism statism autocracy etc..

the french left wing was the party of Robespierre and Le Grand Terror, while the conservative and right party was the one dedicated to the old ways, which were at the time, the values of the enlightenment if not liberalism.

as the US Constitution represents the most Classically Liberal governing system on earth, conservatism seeks to protect that 'tradition" while the left seeks to Change it blindly in the Hope that whatever comes next will be better.

your tired old argument that "Left" = everything good all the time and "Right" = everything bad and oppressive does not work.

some aspects of leftism are good, but the general result of rampant leftism is NOT.

some actual Far Left governments:

Nazi Germany: Hitler won the chancellorship on promises of "income equality" and "fairness" as well as restoring state prestige and nationalism
Fascist Italy: Mussolin won on "Third Way Socialism" based on classic marxist socialism and just a twist of free market down at the bottom for the Plebs
North Korea: Kim won on the good old marxist bait and switch communist promise hiding the socialist barbed hook.
Leninist Soviet Russia: Bolshevik revolution, for the proletariat! yay! communism is almost within reach!
Stalinist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: And Stalin gave a little tug on the line to set the hook. the rest is leftist history
Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge: Marxist bait and switch plus mass murder of anyone who wears glasses... ?! i dont know why.
Idi Amin's Uganda: marxist bait and switch plus cannibalism Om Nom Nom
Syria: marxist bait and switch, with islamic theocratic elements, which of course evaporated once the military junta had control
Iran: theoctatic islamic socialism that actually delivered on it's promises of islamic theocracy and not too heavy handed socialism.
Cuba: "communist" revolution evolves into socialist military junta once fidel got that annoying true believer che guevarra out of the way...
etc etc etc

the far right has a few real stinkers in the bank too, but the far right rarely racks up the sheer bodycount of the left.

Actual Far Right governments:

Saddam Hussein's Bathist Kleptocracy: look everybody! we are islamic theocratic socialists.... and then off comes the mask and he is just a grasping thieving plutocrat with a real flair for rape rooms.
The Wiemar Republic: how to bankrupt a nation and get rich doing it.
The British East India Company: Lol! The first Corporate Raiders in history!
Batista's Cuba: Hispaniola just cant catch a break! first held in serfdom by this twat then held in chains by castro. next i guess theyll be taken over by zombies or some shit.

To the highlighted: My read of history is in direct contradiction. The French Revolutionaries were exemplars the Enlightenment on meth. cn

 

[abandonconflict]

the right is defined as those supporting the current power structure, and the traditional ways (which in the USA is exactly what i described) and the left is the opposition which wants to go the other direction, which in the US would be marxism socialism communism statism autocracy etc..

I stopped reading after this. You are interpreting things in a way that suits you and not based on any factual understanding.

I remind you again, the cold war is long gone buddy, moving on...

 

[abandonconflict]

To the highlighted: My read of history is in direct contradiction. The French Revolutionaries were exemplars the Enlightenment on meth. cn

The reign of terror and guillotine indeed, but some of those men, like Voltaire for example were not so barbaric.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I exclude your rant about pentacostal faith as another of your strawboys. These two statements are gleaned only from your experience and not from what is considered common and even so, I think you know you're lying in both.

and again you refuse to examine your own statements.

you told harrekin that he just wasnt shamanistic enough to experience the "Holy Spirit" of LSD

then you told me im a liar for not believing the "Good Word" about peyote.

next youll offer me some literature and tell me to drop some shrooms and listen for that "still small voice"

it doesnt take much squinting to see the religious overtones in your statements regarding hallucinogenics.

im not joking, or trolling, im saying you sound like a jehovahs witness for acid

i didnt expect that kind of high handed holier than thou attitude from you.