I honestly believed.

[abandonconflict]

i dont hide my political beliefs under a blanket and pretend im not a free market capitalist, and a supporter of our constitutional republic.

i openly confess,

I LOVE OUR CONSTITUTION!!

The constitution is completely compatible with socialism and does not favor either socialism or capitalism, in fact, it seems to lean toward socialism in many ways.

 

[abandonconflict]

so then who praytell manages the "means of production"? of course, a "democratically elected" bureaucracy of commissars, politburo members and apparatchiks.

or do you pretend it would be a "worker's collective" where the "employees" run the industry/business/farm as a commune? newsflash, you dont need a "revolucion de campesinos" to achieve that. theres already plenty of collectives, communes and other voluntary self governing industries who do it that way. nobody had to have their shit TAKEN from them to allow Blue Diamond Growers to form their collective, but you presume that capitalists should take the risks, build their business and then you swoop in and claim it for "the workers" and demand it become a "commons".

sounds like lazy thinking and theft to me, not a political theory.

Have their shit taken?

Politburo? You're crazy, I never said any of this shit.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The constitution is completely compatible with socialism and does not favor either socialism or capitalism, in fact, it seems to lean toward socialism in many ways.

our constitution protects the right to own your own shit, whether thats a small suburban house, or a small farm or even a big assw farm, with a mill, a whisky distellery and a hemp cordage factory on the pooroperty as well (zomg! industry and the means of production!)

this is fundamentally incompatible with socialism, and it's penchant for Takings, nationalization and installation of petty bureaucrats as commissars in charge of the new collective farm program.

if the farmer cannot own his land, but instead his land is TAKEN and it is now run by a commission of his former employees, how does this fit into the US constitution?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Have their shit taken?

Politburo? You're crazy, I never said any of this shit.

nope, you simply hinted at it, and pointed to wikipages which discuss siezure and "collectivization" (which is just weaselese for "nationalization) of the "means of production" which is of course a well known trope of marxism.

if i suggest that the farm owner "enjoin the collectivisation" of his "real property" and instead "rightsize" his "human resources" by employing "outsourced contract negotiators" who specialize in "bilateral facetime negotiation" technigues to "normalize" the "human resources paradigm", the smart money could deduce what i mean even if i dont say, "Hire Lawyers and Legbreakers to bust the union".

i dont have to say it, but when the Pinkertons start shooting up the strike line, my message becomes clear.

just as yours is.

 

[Harrekin]

We need a name for Socialists...Communists are Commies, what could Socialist be?Socialist Bastard just doesn't have the same ring as "Commie Bastard...".Ideas would be appreciated.

 

[althor]

i dont know why youre surprised. he did the same thing last time, ran as a reformer, and ruled as a More Of The Samer.

He is Bush 2.0 on steroids and the liberals refuse to see that because he put Dem in front of his title.
The worst president in history squared.

 

[Dr Kynes]

We need a name for Socialists...Communists are Commies, what could Socialist be?Socialist Bastard just doesn't have the same ring as "Commie Bastard...".Ideas would be appreciated.

the communist/socialist name game is based on the 19th and early 20th century language conventions.

at that time, when marxism was being drafted in the first communist international meetings, the word "social" was associated not with government, or politics, but "society" as in "High Society", including cotillions, debutante balls, opera openings and general well-to-do-ness, which was NOT considered evil at the time. in fact most of the world ASPIRED to well-to-do-ness. Waistcoats, gentleman's walking sticks, top hats, monocles, spats, and whatnot for the lads, and bustles, parasols and demure winks from behind a lace fan for the ladies. it just wasnt very scary.

when those who saw the coming wave of marxism needed to warn the populace of the approaching storm 9in the form of fascism, nazism, stalinism, etc etc etc... (all forms of Nationalist Socialism based in the theories of marx and the communist manifesto with all the good wholesome parts removed) they couldnt use the actuaal word preferred by marx "Socialism" due to it's positive connotations (which was why marx used it, instead of the more accurate "Forced Collectivism", or "Violent Overthrow of Government by the Rabble". so the pundits, journalists and intellectuals who saw, and understood the coming wave of violence by the disgruntled persons not part of "Society" at the time used the word Communism, with it's sinister hard consonants and relative obscurity in the english speaking world. The word "Communism" was a fat juicy plum, just waiting to be plucked by the anti-marxist faction, and ever since has been the Go-To word for describing ALL forms of marxism not just the parts which are actually communistic in nature.

the irony is, Communism is the non-compulsory marxist utopia where everyone shares everything, and there is no Dizzyingly High Upper Crust, and no Downtrodden Oppressed Proletariat. only the creamy middle. Communism is the Dream, the Worker's Paradise of legend, and Socialism is the dreary ant colony where everybody slaves away for The State until eventually after much tribulation finally The State can be dissolved and paradise appears. the two words and the ideas behind them have switched in the popular consciousness, but anyone with an actual understanding of marxist theory cannot pretend to be unaware of the real meanings of these words.

if you read the communist manifesto and das capital, you would know them for what they are. pretending otherwise is folly, or a deliberate lie. thats the Name Game used by the New Left to confuse the marks, and distract them while they move the shells around, till hopefully the sucker wont be able to locate the pea, and get his $20 back.

 

[ChesusRice]

We need a name for Socialists...Communists are Commies, what could Socialist be?Socialist Bastard just doesn't have the same ring as "Commie Bastard...".Ideas would be appreciated.

IrishYou live in a socialist welfare state dont ya?

 

[Dr Kynes]

He is Bush 2.0 on Crack and the liberals refuse to see that because he put Dem in front of his title.
The worst president in history squared.

edited for accuracy.

roids actually IMPROVE performance before they shrink your nads and make your brain melt into jelly.

Crack however, causes twitchiness, irrational behavior, confusion, disorientation, and general instability, plus and insatiable desire for MORE, usually resulting in jacking car stereos, chain snatching at the bus stop, and burglary of anyone with anything worth stealing, and sometimes burglary of shit that is totally worthless. if you ever see a crackhead steal your empty laundry basket from beneath your clothesline, you know what i mean.

 

[Dr Kynes]

IrishYou live in a socialist welfare state dont ya?

ireland is a democratic socialist state, or in the words of Leonid Trotsky, a "Counter-Revolutionary, Reactionary Bourgeois Capitalist Attempt to Placate the Proletariat, and De-Radicalize Them". marx, lenin, trotsky and all the real communists hated democratic socialism like the plague. same for Nationalist Socialism of the nazis and the fascists. they just werent communists, and the real communists could see they would never surrender their power to the proletariat when it was time for communism's paradise to unfold it's wonders.

and they were right. thats why the socialists killed em off.

 

[desert dude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMH18WIuIQk

I supported, argued and clawed and scratched and fought. I thought this 2nd term would be progressive. Instead, we have been focused on Twinkies, Petraeus and he actually Mitt flopped on one of his stances I most respected, which was that he supported the people of Palestine.When will he be progressive? When will he reschedule? I regret defending him.

Bullshit. You're not getting the taste of the Obama-scrotum off your tongue this easily. I have read countless inane posts filled with Obama-love from you.

 

[cannabineer]

Libertarian socialism is not state socialism. If everyone cannot be equal, then there will always be kings. The more a society is stratified, the fewer peers one has. What I am arguing is that indeed mankind can get it's shit together, end the rat race and usher in a great paradigm shift from a consciousness of competition to one of cooperation. You apparently have not so much hope. There are only so many ultimate outcomes in the great ascent of man. We have the power now, as a species, to foster a better reality. We do this slowly by simply shifting the direction of progress. Like the buds in a scrog or a vine in a trellis, design can affect growth.

An argument directly counter to this, is that reality is objective. I find it amazing that particle theory is mounting evidence that reality is not objective but that perception and consciousness have a direct effect upon reality. Taken slightly out of that context, but not so far away as to lose sense of it, we really need only change our minds to change our world. We can all be equal my friend, we have only the monumental task of realizing that fact.

I also find it funny, that the arguments for objective reality and for the abandonment of collectivism are both to be found in the works of Ayn Rand.

To the bolded 1:
I see every society larger than the village unit as being necessarily hierarchic. Humans have always had kings and have them now. Even the village unit has an executive. From this it stands to reason that everybody being (and holding his neighbor as) equal is not the human way. it is unnatural and thus a utopian sentiment.

To the bolded 2: I have never seen an experiment devised to test this. Every treatment of the quantum mind/body problem i have read is a hugely daring extrapolation from quantum locality/observability phenomena (the double slit is the classic example) over a long metaphysical bridge spun of a blend of "holographic universe" abstractions and sheer power of wish.
I have seen no signs of particle or other quantum theory itself moving to test the premises. I've done some reading in physics, and would have no clue in re how to design the experiment. And without a test mode, this "theory" drops down even past "hypothesis" (which is a serious "test me!" proposal in the vernacular of the scientific method) into outright reverie. My opinion. cn

 

[cannabineer]

so those first two sentences did not nationalize the "means of production"? you need to read that shit again.

They collectivized but didn't nationalize them. I wonder if there'd even be a nation, or a somewhat fantastic quiltwork of local authorities living like an endless herd without one wolf. cn

 

[Dr Kynes]

They collectivized but didn't nationalize them. I wonder if there'd even be a nation, or a somewhat fantastic quiltwork of local authorities living like an endless herd without one wolf. cn

i have to wonder how they will wrest controll of the farms, mills, factories and mines from the current owners without some form of organized militant action... which would invariably lead to a "government" since as mao said, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

certainly these bourgeois capitalist pigdogs will not simply turn over their property to the proletariat because they see the wisdom of submission to "scientific marxism" and anarcho-_______ism is the wave of the future.

sounds like we will need some radicalized armed revolutionaries to put some capitalist pigdogs up against the wall... for the good of the revolution.

now all we need is a leader.

one with a really cool beard.

like a goatee or maybe some HUGE muttonchops.

 

[hotrodharley]

progressive the new popular name for radical communist anti American scum!

Yeah your side sure did win big this last election. Obviously you have the wrong message, the wrong candidates and not enough superdumb jackasses that work for a wage but back the greedy to vote your sonsofbitches in.

 

[hotrodharley]

We need a name for Socialists...Communists are Commies, what could Socialist be?Socialist Bastard just doesn't have the same ring as "Commie Bastard...".Ideas would be appreciated.

Well let's see - "captialist fuck" is already taken. So is "lackey" and "meat puppet"

 

[Dr Kynes]

Well let's see - "captialist fuck" is already taken. So is "lackey" and "meat puppet"

thats a mighty fine psychotic episode you got goin on there bro.

 

[abandonconflict]

our constitution protects the right to own your own shit, whether thats a small suburban house, or a small farm or even a big assw farm, with a mill, a whisky distellery and a hemp cordage factory on the pooroperty as well (zomg! industry and the means of production!)

this is fundamentally incompatible with socialism, and it's penchant for Takings, nationalization and installation of petty bureaucrats as commissars in charge of the new collective farm program.

if the farmer cannot own his land, but instead his land is TAKEN and it is now run by a commission of his former employees, how does this fit into the US constitution?

Libertarian Socialism doesn't say you can't own you're own shit, actually it does clearly say you can. It just makes a distinction at private ownership of means of production.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Libertarian Socialism doesn't say you can't own you're own shit, actually it does clearly say you can. It just makes a distinction at private ownership of means of production.

which by definition dispossesses the farmer, the mill owner, the factory owner and the mine owner of their property.

you might as well say "You can be as rich as you want, but at some undisclosed level of wealth, we will take it all from you. Now go out there and be productive!"

even a small private garden can become the "means of production" or a small basement workshop where a solitary craftsman invents some new gadget ready to set the world on fire with it's innovative design. or a fellow who discovers a new way to refine petroleum that costs less and is much more efficient. those people LOSE their hard work and their property to the "collective" which is totally different from "The State"... somehow.

 

[abandonconflict]

which by definition dispossesses the farmer, the mill owner

No, you clearly did not read it.

Just shut up.