Iran's route to the Med

[Doer]

Remember when I said this must have a historically significant Military name, like Fulda Gap? Where the terrain is perfect to and needs to be watched very carefully? There are others in the world, for sure. The Plains of Marathon, is one. This one is called Gaugamela. Of course! 331 BCE, Alexander the Macodon, prevailed through superior tactics, and became The Great. His 50,000 against perhaps as many as 750,000 Persians in the main array. And, my forum mates, just look where this is. It is impossible to defend against tanks and that's why we wanted our 4th Armored Division there....for a while.Well, I can't get the attachment to work, but it is just northeast of Mosul.

 

[mccumcumber]

Alexander was killed by his own troops because he was a war mongering douche and wouldn't go back home. It is very possible to defend against tanks. They actually have weapons designed exactly for that purpose.

 

[ginjawarrior]

[youtube]P9O6pCYyelA[/youtube]

 

[Doer]

Alexander was killed by his own troops because he was a war mongering douche and wouldn't go back home. It is very possible to defend against tanks. They actually have weapons designed exactly for that purpose.

That is so far from the History it is embarrassing for you. He may have been poisoned, but that was long after they came back to Babylon. Saddam could defend it. The 4th Armor defended it. Who is defending it now? There are no ways to fight tanks without tanks or air cover. If you are talking about anti-tank crews, those have to be defended by tanks and infantry. This Gap can be crossed over night. There is no one there to stop it and plenty to allow it. Turkey and Syria, for sure. Think man. Or study, then think.

 

[Harrekin]

That is so far from the History it is embarrassing for you. He may have been poisoned, but that was long after they came back to Babylon. Saddam could defend it. The 4th Armor defended it. Who is defending it now? There are no ways to fight tanks without tanks or air cover. If you are talking about anti-tank crews, those have to be defended by tanks and infantry. This Gap can be crossed over night. There is no one there to stop it and plenty to allow it. Turkey and Syria, for sure. Think man. Or study, then think.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin

Beep...beep...beep....BEEEEEEEEEP!

I disagree, anti-tank crews are ridiculously well equipped now.

 

[ginjawarrior]

That is so far from the History it is embarrassing for you. He may have been poisoned, but that was long after they came back to Babylon. Saddam could defend it. The 4th Armor defended it. Who is defending it now? There are no ways to fight tanks without tanks or air cover. If you are talking about anti-tank crews, those have to be defended by tanks and infantry. This Gap can be crossed over night. There is no one there to stop it and plenty to allow it. Turkey and Syria, for sure. Think man. Or study, then think.

[youtube]P9O6pCYyelA[/youtube]

 

[mccumcumber]

That is so far from the History it is embarrassing for you. He may have been poisoned, but that was long after they came back to Babylon. Saddam could defend it. The 4th Armor defended it. Who is defending it now? There are no ways to fight tanks without tanks or air cover. If you are talking about anti-tank crews, those have to be defended by tanks and infantry. This Gap can be crossed over night. There is no one there to stop it and plenty to allow it. Turkey and Syria, for sure. Think man. Or study, then think.

It wasn't he may have been. He was. I never inferred he was poisoned at a specific point. I just said he was killed by his own troops because he was on a never ending war path. That is historically accurate. Edit: Also, javelins are pretty effective against tanks. Thank you Harrekin for pointing that out.

 

[cannabineer]

It wasn't he may have been. He was. I never inferred he was poisoned at a specific point. I just said he was killed by his own troops because he was on a never ending war path. That is historically accurate. Edit: Also, javelins are pretty effective against tanks. Thank you Harrekin for pointing that out.

They're pretty, but no. cn

 

[Harrekin]

They're pretty, but no. cn

If it had a molybdenum layer (like the missile) it probably would've lasted longer.

 

[cannabineer]

If it had a molybdenum layer (like the missile) it probably would've lasted longer.

You made me look it up. The molybdenum is actually part of the shaped charge. Why they used molybdenum I can't say ... probably a combo of ductility, very high melting point and useable density. An interesting and fairly exotic choice. Pure moly has few applications; the two i can recall is specialty crucibles and heat-resistant aerospace nosecones, e.g. on Dyna-Soar. cn

 

[Harrekin]

You made me look it up. The molybdenum is actually part of the shaped charge. Why they used molybdenum I can't say ... probably a combo of ductility, very high melting point and useable density. An interesting and fairly exotic choice. Pure moly has few applications; the two i can recall is specialty crucibles and heat-resistant aerospace nosecones, e.g. on Dyna-Soar. cn

It's for penetrating armour.

Basically just so it's not consumed by the explosion.

The missiles are like $20,000 each...so the car reference is particularly apt given it costs roughly the same

 

[cannabineer]

It's for penetrating armour.

Basically just so it's not consumed by the explosion.

The missiles are like $20,000 each...so the car reference is particularly apt given it costs roughly the same

But the little guy has an even better zero-to-T60 ... ~giggity~
Most military shaped charges are quite content to use copper as the "slug". I am not certain of the benefit provided by the molybdenum, unless it has especial advantages in the "superplastic" temp/press regime of the exploding charge. I am tempted to go off a'Googlin', but this is where the diff between the Internet and a good university library becomes plain. Jmo. cn

 

[Harrekin]

But the little guy has an even better zero-to-T60 ... ~giggity~
Most military shaped charges are quite content to use copper as the "slug". I am not certain of the benefit provided by the molybdenum, unless it has especial advantages in the "superplastic" temp/press regime of the exploding charge. I am tempted to go off a'Googlin', but this is where the diff between the Internet and a good university library becomes plain. Jmo. cn

They didn't like my crowd, giggling with red eyes the whole time...

 

[cannabineer]

I found this
Material Al Ni Cu Mo Ta U W
Density
(g/cm3)
2.7 8.8 8.9 10.0 16.6 18.5 19.4
Bulk sound
(km/sec)
5.4 4.4 4.3 4.9 2.4 2.5 4.0
vj0,max
(km/sec)
12.3 10.1 9.8 11.3 5.4 5.7 9.2
ν j0,max . ρ j 20.2 30.0 29.2 35.7 22.0 22.0 40.5
Ranking 7 3 4 2 6 5 1

here ...

http://higherintellect.info/texts/terrorism_and_pyrotechnics/explosives/Shaped_Charges_Penetrators/Liners for Shaped Charges by Manfred Held (2001).pdf

(dang table won't format)

The features that make a good liner metal are ductility, density and a fine crystal structure. Pure tungsten is top-ranked, butpure tungsten is expensive and difficult to work. Molybdenum is "pretty good" and much more formable. cn

 

[mccumcumber]

But the little guy has an even better zero-to-T60 ... ~giggity~ Most military shaped charges are quite content to use copper as the "slug". I am not certain of the benefit provided by the molybdenum, unless it has especial advantages in the "superplastic" temp/press regime of the exploding charge. I am tempted to go off a'Googlin', but this is where the diff between the Internet and a good university library becomes plain. Jmo. cn

I personally like jaystor, however, since I'm no longer a student I cannot access it. It was like wikipedia, but accurate and credible.

 

[fb360]

I found this Material Al Ni Cu Mo Ta U W Density (g/cm3) 2.7 8.8 8.9 10.0 16.6 18.5 19.4 Bulk sound (km/sec) 5.4 4.4 4.3 4.9 2.4 2.5 4.0 vj0,max (km/sec) 12.3 10.1 9.8 11.3 5.4 5.7 9.2 ν j0,max . ρ j 20.2 30.0 29.2 35.7 22.0 22.0 40.5 Ranking 7 3 4 2 6 5 1 here ... http://higherintellect.info/texts/terrorism_and_pyrotechnics/explosives/Shaped_Charges_Penetrators/Liners for Shaped Charges by Manfred Held (2001).pdf (dang table won't format) The features that make a good liner metal are ductility, density and a fine crystal structure. Pure tungsten is top-ranked, butpure tungsten is expensive and difficult to work. Molybdenum is "pretty good" and much more formable. cn

Normally molybdenum is used in alloys to give high melting point benefits, as you mentioned with your aerospace example. Another good example is waspaloy. Waspaloy is a very expensive superalloy that is used in applications where the heat would be too great for a more ordinary nickle or titanium alloy. i.e. gas turbines.

 

[hotrodharley]

Alexander was killed by his own troops because he was a war mongering douche and wouldn't go back home. It is very possible to defend against tanks. They actually have weapons designed exactly for that purpose.

Yeah. One weapon is called "drone".

 

[cannabineer]

Normally molybdenum is used in alloys to give high melting point benefits, as you mentioned with your aerospace example. Another good example is waspaloy. Waspaloy is a very expensive superalloy that is used in applications where the heat would be too great for a more ordinary nickle or titanium alloy. i.e. gas turbines.

Chro-moly is also the commonest high-tensile steel, popular in bicycle frames. cn

 

[Doer]

It wasn't he may have been. He was. I never inferred he was poisoned at a specific point. I just said he was killed by his own troops because he was on a never ending war path. That is historically accurate. Edit: Also, javelins are pretty effective against tanks. Thank you Harrekin for pointing that out.

Infantry trumps Javelins, tanks support Infantry,. Who will position those Javelins now that the 4th Armor is not there? You need to read up on Rommel's doctrine of combined arms. No one element can exist long without the other. An overnight dash to set up the screen to protect that route will be very difficult to defeat. It will take a UN mandate. And if the time is right with other strategic considerations, the risk/reward could be well worth it. Like blocking Hormouz and Suez at the same time. Realism. Nations act for self interest. Nations don't have friends. Only mutual interests. Turkey and Brazil along with China, can mean the next step is the Panama is threatened with the China nukes already in place within the Zone in their COSTCO (no relation) warehouses. Quick, what to do, now? Pants are down, now what? Bend over. Sue for Peace and a new world order is in place. Same problem, same young minds.

 

[cannabineer]

Doer, I am reminded of your post #3 in which you tangentially mentioned air power. Air power can trump tanks, Javelins, infantry. it isn't a complete replacement, but as an interdiction tool it came of age in Desert Storm. cn