The Souths Succession

[Padawanbater2]

What are the actual implications..?

Should we have let them succeed from the Union during the American Civil War? Would the rest of America have been better off in retrospect in your opinion?

 

[Dr Kynes]

it's secession, not succession, but anyhow, ever since A Lincoln it has been tautology that the union is a suicide pact. nobody gets out of america alive.

the south cannot secede without winning their independence in a war, which already happened, and they lost in "The Late Unpleasantness Between The States"

 

[Rob Roy]

If you can't secede, you aren't free. The ability to peacefully disassociate is a logical component of a free society. Hmmm.

 

[Dr Kynes]

If you can't secede, you aren't free. The ability to peacefully disassociate is a logical component of a free society. Hmmm.

this however means that you want to bring back the shackles and re-institute slavery. after all, "states rights" is just code for racism, and thus all discussion of "rights", even personal rights, is racist.

also, Racist.

just in case you missed it.

i must say generally you are quite sensible, but where i disagree is the extent of the "consent" argument.

if i join a club, and that club's rules say "No Fapping In The Shitter" and i insist that jacking it in the dook hut is mandatory for my personal fulfillment, then i need to lobby to change the rules, find another club, or abide by the rules about jerking it in the crapper, and remain unfulfilled.

simply picking and choosing which rules one will or will not follow in a society is a recipe for collapse of the society, and will result in the destruction of civilization, just like masturbating in the toilet.

 

[cannabineer]

Actually I don't think Rob Roy's comment has anything at all to do with slavery or race, but is stated as a general principle. I'd rebut, but since I didn't but initially ... cn

 

[Dr Kynes]

Actually I don't think Rob Roy's comment has anything at all to do with slavery or race, but is stated as a general principle. I'd rebut, but since I didn't but initially ... cn

ohh pish! its ALWAYS racism when you disagree with the O-Man.

Barry Knows Best is the only way to live a happy life in the United States of Obama. i have finally seen the light and accepted the inevitable. submitting to barry's will early can make you one of the favoured elites who live in the future utopia instead of the wretched refuse who file obediently into the soylent green factories.

 

[Mr Neutron]

BTW, it was NOT a civil war. A civil war is two opposite factions from the same country, fighting over who will control that country. The War Between the States was not a fight about who would control the USA. The south seceded and started their own nation. The north defeated that effort and forced the south to stay in the union.

 

[Dr Kynes]

BTW, it was NOT a civil war. A civil war is two opposite factions from the same country, fighting over who will control that country. The War Between the States was not a fight about who would control the USA. The south seceded and started their own nation. The north defeated that effort and forced the south to stay in the union.

the "War of Northern Aggression" has ensured that future plotters of the treason of not wanting to serve washington will see the danger of opposing the mandarins. the "Late Unpleasantness" turned the union of states into a sweatshop for the federal massah. looks like slavery was never abolished, just spread out more equitably, and the shackles loosened a little.

 

[cannabineer]

BTW, it was NOT a civil war. A civil war is two opposite factions from the same country, fighting over who will control that country. The War Between the States was not a fight about who would control the USA. The south seceded and started their own nation. The north defeated that effort and forced the south to stay in the union.

It was contested within the former and future boundaries of the USA. It meets the criterion. cn

 

[abandonconflict]

What ever happened with Texas seceding?

 

[Dr Kynes]

What ever happened with Texas seceding?

turns out nobody tried to stop em so they just bandaged up their wrists, turned off the Morrissey record and went to taco bell.

 

[abandonconflict]

turns out nobody tried to stop em so they just bandaged up their wrists, turned off the Morrissey record and went to taco bell.

I had an odd lunch during a drive through Texas once, a "taco-burger". I know they have their own version of Mexican food, but it seemed an odd enough synchretization that maybe I should try, horrible.

 

[Mr Neutron]

I had an odd lunch during a drive through Texas once, a "taco-burger". I know they have their own version of Mexican food, but it seemed an odd enough synchretization that maybe I should try, horrible.

I miss my Tex-Mex.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I had an odd lunch during a drive through Texas once, a "taco-burger". I know they have their own version of Mexican food, but it seemed an odd enough synchretization that maybe I should try, horrible.

stay clear of any taco-fusions.

a poblano burger is bad ass though.

fire roasted poblano peppers layered over sizzling rare beef pattties with queso fresco and pepper jack cheese wreathed in a halo of fresh green leaf lettuces and ripe tomato slices topped off with your choice of chiplotle pepper catsup or spicy grilled mushroom and sweet pepper relish.

 

[Rob Roy]

this however means that you want to bring back the shackles and re-institute slavery. after all, "states rights" is just code for racism, and thus all discussion of "rights", even personal rights, is racist.

also, Racist.

just in case you missed it.

i must say generally you are quite sensible, but where i disagree is the extent of the "consent" argument.

if i join a club, and that club's rules say "No Fapping In The Shitter" and i insist that jacking it in the dook hut is mandatory for my personal fulfillment, then i need to lobby to change the rules, find another club, or abide by the rules about jerking it in the crapper, and remain unfulfilled.

simply picking and choosing which rules one will or will not follow in a society is a recipe for collapse of the society, and will result in the destruction of civilization, just like masturbating in the toilet.

Nope I don't want to bring back the shackles of slavery....ever. When I say secession, I mean "secession" less in a sense of a state secession, the state being just a smaller daddy than the feds, I mean secession of individuals. Which of course would mean that holding people in slavery against their will would be verboten.

In other words I endorse the secession of states, but don't endorse states that defend slavery or are simply a microcosm of the feds in regards to an authoritarian model. State secession is only the beginning, the real measure is the ability of every person to have peaceful self determination.



I appreciate your nod to my general sensibility. Thanks.

 

[billybob420]

the "War of Northern Aggression" has ensured that future plotters of the treason of not wanting to serve washington will see the danger of opposing the mandarins. the "Late Unpleasantness" turned the union of states into a sweatshop for the federal massah. looks like slavery was never abolished, just spread out more equitably, and the shackles loosened a little.

The South attacked first.

The problem is there's no "legal" avenue to secede, so when states began to secede it was easy for the Federal government to claim it to be criminal. When the South began to attack federal property within those states, it just gave the North a good reason, not to mention the whole "preserving the union" nonsense.

Anyways, I think they should had been able to secede. Not a fan of slavery (don't think many people are any more), but I like to think it would had worked itself out somehow, probably a bit naive.

 

[cannabineer]

I cannot imagine any way for permitting secession (in general; no special reference to US doings) that doesn't gut the concept of nation. It stands to reason that the only way to make secession work is to present the former host country with no option if winning the inevitable contest. The Confederation came close ... but. The rest, as they say, is history. cn

 

[Geronimo420]

Imagine the implication for WWII for example the racist south would have been very friendly with Uncle Adolph and is regime, most likely a few concentration camps would have appears in the south… Europe without America’s help would have lost its war resulting in the Nazi coming to America to help their friends….Today the capital of the world would be Germania ( Berlin renamed) & everybody left would speak German. There would be no Jews, Black, Gays, Jehovah witness & everybody else the Nazi hated. Civics liberties wouldn’t exist anymore & the SS would have kidded your door long ago for frequenting ROLLITUP . So not a good idea I think.

 

[billybob420]

I cannot imagine any way for permitting secession (in general; no special reference to US doings) that doesn't gut the concept of nation. It stands to reason that the only way to make secession work is to present the former host country with no option if winning the inevitable contest. The Confederation came close ... but. The rest, as they say, is history. cn

The closest thing that comes to mind is the fall of the USSR. It wasn't peaceful but you couldn't call it all out war either.

 

[cannabineer]

The closest thing that comes to mind is the fall of the USSR. It wasn't peaceful but you couldn't call it all out war either.

That wasn't secession so much as a crumbling. The host nation simply stopped existing. Yugoslavia flew apart similarly. Recent successful secessions from host nations that retained continuity (East Timor, Eritrea) involved much fighting. Unsuccessful ones (Tamil Eelam) as well. cn