you have to pay $13.50 to vote in pennsylvania

[ChesusRice]

LOL its required both ways Mexican government is a lot more serious about illegals than we are same with Canada. Strange huh?

Strange
It is almost impossible to be a illegal immigrant in Mexico
SInce you can live and work there while applying for citizenship
and can even buy into their universal health care system as a non citizen
I dont need nothing but a credit card to get INTO mexico
That is to buy the Tourist card that is mandatory now

 

[canndo]

Stop trying to convince the Fright wingers about vote fraud
They already know it doesnt exist and the only reason they support it is that it disenfranchises more democrats than republicans by a wide margin

It is far more insidious than that Ches. What we are observing is the mechanism of the right. The right claims to love this country and it's customs and liberties. Only a select few in the upper ranks are calous enough to be willing to do anything, including limiting the vote in order to place their "candidate" (I put that word in quotes because candidate has elements of choice inherent) into office.

The rest are fed something that on the surface seems reasonable, after all ID is a way of verification, and we can't have voter fraud now, can we? After all, we use ID for everything else. Reasonable. But the right, as we so clearly see from my discussion with Beenthere, will swallow what they are fed and think no further on it. Beenthere creates some lame reasoning for why Tuvaris says what he says. for, you see, once the right is instructed, even outright blunders by their leaders will not alter their beliefs.

These are honest people, intelligent folk, they believe themselves not only to be reasonable but posess "common sense", and yet as I say, once they have been indoctrinated they will cling to falsehood in the very face of reality. they cannot stand to realize that they are in support of American citizens being deprived of their right to vote, that would be too harsh a confronatation with their own morality and so they erect a series of mental blocks.

You can see those blocks with your own eyes if you review the discussion on this thread. It is quite literaly impossible for Beenthere to see the truth, let alone acknowlege that he is in support of the immoral.

I even asked Beenthere what it would take for him to change his mind, and he has no answer because the reality is that there is no proof, evidence, logic or reason that will cause that to happen. He is very well indoctrinated.





He, as others, will cling to theory and avert his thoughts. ID is protecting My right, ID is normal, everyone is like me and I have ID. This is how the right behaves, this is the mechanism and this is the machine at work. Anyone who thinks I am an alarmist or my observations are extreme need only look at the posts and realize what is at stake. Why would anyone vote for any member of a party that is reduced to this?

 

[UncleBuck]

LOL its required both ways Mexican government is a lot more serious about illegals than we are same with Canada. Strange huh?

sock puppet fails again.

last time i went to mexico, i brought my passport card but did not need it to get in. getting back out of mexico though was a different story.

so are we done talking about how much righties love being forced by the government to pay the government money in order to vote?

 

[canndo]

Sure it is and it should be protected as so. They only way we can protect everyone vote is to make sure its the person placing it, end of story.

Protected from what non? show me where there is a problem? Furthermore, can you show me where the problem is equal to the results of the solution? In other words, is it ok with you that 5 million people are dissallowed from voting so that your vote is protected from 20 cases of voter fraud?

 

[ChesusRice]

The rest are fed something that on the surface seems reasonable, after all ID is a way of verification, and we can't have voter fraud now, can we? After all, we use ID for everything else. Reasonable. But the right, as we so clearly see from my discussion with Beenthere, will swallow what they are fed and think no further on it. Beenthere creates some lame reasoning for why Tuvaris says what he says. for, you see, once the right is instructed, even outright blunders by their leaders will not alter their beliefs.

Different theory
These people know the reason for the Voter id LAWS
It is to disenfranchise likely democratic voters
They Know organisations like ACORN and Unions are not harmful But they support democrats
So must be destroyed

You really think these fright wingers believe the bullshit they spew?

They know what the game is
and no matter how immorral it is
They are OK with it

 

[UncleBuck]

I even asked Beenthere what it would take for him to change his mind, and he has no answer because the reality is that there is no proof, evidence, logic or reason that will cause that to happen. He is very well indoctrinated.

cognitive dissonance is a real bitch.

you're asking beennowhere to reconcile two thoughts.

thought #1: "i am a smart person"

thought #2: "i believe in falsehoods"

smart people don't believe in falsehoods, hence the dissonance.

he's dug the hole to deep by now, he'll just keep digging until he's buried.

 

[nontheist]

Strange
It is almost impossible to be a illegal immigrant in Mexico
SInce you can live and work there while applying for citizenship
and can even buy into their universal health care system as a non citizen
I dont need nothing but a credit card to get INTO mexico
That is to buy the Tourist card that is mandatory now

You can't just fly your Visa card and step across the border. You ill informed. You get the rage and start posting shit that isnt true hoping no one will look into it. To get into Mexico you need....

• Valid proof of citizenship (passport or birth certificate)
  In the case of dual citizenship, the solicitant must present his or her Mexican passport or proof of Mexican nationality.
• The appropiate immigration form (FMT or "tourist card")
• The valid vehicle registration certificate, or a document, such as the original title that certifies the legal ownership of the vehicle. It must be in the driver's name.
• The leasing contract (if the vehicle is leased or rented), which must be in the name of the person importing the car. If the vehicle belongs to a company, present the document that certifies the employee works for the company.
• A valid driver's license, issued outside Mexico.
• If the documentation shows the vehicle is registered in the name of the spouse, the importation can be done as long as the marriage certificate (and ne copy) is presented.
• An international credit or debit card, also issued outside Mexico (American Express, Mastercard or Visa), in the name of the driver of the vehicle.

Note: If you do not possess an international credit card, you will be asked to post a bond, payable to the Federal Treasury, issued by an authorized bonding company in Mexico.



Mexican law says that illegal entry is a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Foreigners are expelled from Mexico without due process and re-entry after expulsion means 10 years of imprisonment. According to American Free Press columnist Vince Ryan, a national population registry tracks all Mexican citizens and they must carry identity cards. Pro-illegal alien speeches by outsiders is prohibited and cause for arrest. We need to do likewise.

 

[ChesusRice]

You can't just fly your Visa card and step across the border. You ill informed. You get the rage and start posting shit that isnt true hoping no one will look into it. To get into Mexico you need....

• Valid proof of citizenship (passport or birth certificate)
  In the case of dual citizenship, the solicitant must present his or her Mexican passport or proof of Mexican nationality.
• The appropiate immigration form (FMT or "tourist card")
• The valid vehicle registration certificate, or a document, such as the original title that certifies the legal ownership of the vehicle. It must be in the driver's name.
• The leasing contract (if the vehicle is leased or rented), which must be in the name of the person importing the car. If the vehicle belongs to a company, present the document that certifies the employee works for the company.
• A valid driver's license, issued outside Mexico.
• If the documentation shows the vehicle is registered in the name of the spouse, the importation can be done as long as the marriage certificate (and ne copy) is presented.
• An international credit or debit card, also issued outside Mexico (American Express, Mastercard or Visa), in the name of the driver of the vehicle.

Note: If you do not possess an international credit card, you will be asked to post a bond, payable to the Federal Treasury, issued by an authorized bonding company in Mexico.



Mexican law says that illegal entry is a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Foreigners are expelled from Mexico without due process and re-entry after expulsion means 10 years of imprisonment. According to American Free Press columnist Vince Ryan, a national population registry tracks all Mexican citizens and they must carry identity cards. Pro-illegal alien speeches by outsiders is prohibited and cause for arrest. We need to do likewise.

Dude you can walk into mexico with nothing but a credit card
You need a passport to get back into the USA

 

[ChesusRice]

Oh and here is another thing
If you plan on staying less than 72 hours
You dont even need a tourist card

 

[desert dude]

well, then the burden would be on you to find over 105,000 cases of in person voter fraud each and every election cycle across the entire united states, because that is about the number of people who will die every four years from citizen gun violence.

and even if you did find 105,000 cases of in person voter fraud across the entire united states in each and every election, that number would be dwarfed by the amount of legitimate voters who would be disenfranchised in PA alone this year.

the number we have is 10: 10 cases of in person voter fraud in the last 10 years in the entire united states. i guess we should disenfranchise 700k pennsylvanians to prevent that, eh?

awesome GOP logic. rightarded.

Half of those disenfranchised would be Republicans, and half would be Democrats. Net result would be no effect. Who cares?

 

[ChesusRice]

mexico border


Photo: The international boundary is made by a
diagonal, yellow and white line, and a marker, to the right of the photo, marks
the line as well. The guy with the backpack is poised to step into Mexico.
Note the updated green-white-red pedestrian arch.

As you cross to the Mexican side of the line, you'll
note that Mexican customs is to your immediate left. (Prior to 2007, customs
used to be to the right, the building is still there, but customs are now
located in the first building to the left.) If you're venturing south of the
border zone, this is where you'll need to pick up your tourist card. The bank
is next door as well, and most of the folks speak enough English to be very
helpful. If you're just visiting Tijuana, continue walking straight ahead,
under the covered walkway, known as "corredor turistico,"

 

[ChesusRice]

Half of those disenfranchised would be Republicans, and half would be Democrats. Net result would be no effect. Who cares?

If that was the case

ALEC wouldnt have pushed the laws

 

[canndo]

Different theory
These people know the reason for the Voter id LAWS
It is to disenfranchise likely democratic voters
They Know organisations like ACORN and Unions are not harmful But they support democrats
So must be destroyed

You really think these fright wingers believe the bullshit they spew?

They know what the game is
and no matter how immorral it is
They are OK with it

I cannot allow myself to believe that the majority of Republicans actually want to subvert our elections. I do believe that if they are told afterward that their candidate won that way they would be ok with it, after all, their guy won, and the monster Obama is out, even if it took screwing the American people, it was for their own good after all, but I have trouble knowing that all the fundamentaly good people I know who are conservatives actually want voters to be kept from the polls.

 

[ChesusRice]

I cannot allow myself to believe that the majority of Republicans actually want to subvert our elections. I do believe that if they are told afterward that their candidate won that way they would be ok with it, after all, their guy won, and the monster Obama is out, even if it took screwing the American people, it was for their own good after all, but I have trouble knowing that all the fundamentaly good people I know who are conservatives actually want voters to be kept from the polls.

Allen Raymond is a former Republican political consultant in the United States who spent three months in federal prison for his role in the 2002 New Hampshire Senate election phone jamming scandal, for which he was convicted of making harassing phone calls across state lines, a felony.[SUP][1][/SUP] Raymond is the author of the book, How To Rig an Election: Confessions of a Republican Operative (200.

The closing paragraph of his book How To Rig an Election: Confessions of a Republican Operative ends with a line that reflects on a conversation with his wife just before he entered jail; "After ten full years inside the GOP, ninety days amongst honest criminals wasn't any great ordeal

 

[canndo]

Dude you can walk into mexico with nothing but a credit card
You need a passport to get back into the USA

It has been a while but I used to enter Mexico every other weekend, I can't recall ever being challenged and asked for anything at all when I entered. I can't remember ever not having to show ID in order to get back into the U.S.

 

[canndo]

Half of those disenfranchised would be Republicans, and half would be Democrats. Net result would be no effect. Who cares?

No. Those who are poor, old, students and minorities are the ones most likely to not have ID and most likely to need extended hours in order to vote. The poor, old, students and minorities are more likely to vote democrat. This is a well established fact.

 

[canndo]

If that was the case

ALEC wouldnt have pushed the laws

Nor would the PA guy Tuvaris or what ever his name is have said what he said. It is shocking to me, really, that his quote is absolutely ignored by the right.

 

[desert dude]

I would be interested in how canndo and Desert Dude interpret the militia clause. cn

Here is how I interpret the militia clause.

Suppose that, instead of weapons, 2A was referring to books and the amendment was written: "An educated populace being necessary to a prosperous society, the right of the people to own and read books shall not be infringed". I would not interpret that that to mean that only educated people have the right to own and read books. I would not interpret that to mean that I have to have a library card to own and read a book. I would not interpret that to mean that all of my books must be kept in the library only to be checked out when the governor allows it.

Similarly, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.", does not mean that you must belong to a militia to keep and bear arms. The militia clause simply gives a good reason why people should be allowed to keep and bear, so that the people are accomplished in the use of arms, that's what "well regulated" means, if the need ever arises for the people to defend the security of the free state.

 

[ChesusRice]

Remember, one of the GOP policymakers responsible for creating this mess said the law was approved to "allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." As of this morning, Republicans are one step closer to rigging democracy to make this goal a reality.
[HR][/HR]Also watch for widespread "chaos" in Pennsylvania voting. The state is somehow supposed to process the paperwork for hundreds of thousands of eligible voters who don't have the required ID over the course of a couple of months -- a task that's an unrealistic logistical nightmare.
All of this is necessary, state Republicans insist, to address a problem that doesn't exist. Welcome to GOP-brand democracy in the 21st century.

 

[nontheist]

mexico border
View attachment 2299834
View attachment 2299835
Photo: The international boundary is made by a
diagonal, yellow and white line, and a marker, to the right of the photo, marks
the line as well. The guy with the backpack is poised to step into Mexico.
Note the updated green-white-red pedestrian arch.
View attachment 2299836
As you cross to the Mexican side of the line, you'll
note that Mexican customs is to your immediate left. (Prior to 2007, customs
used to be to the right, the building is still there, but customs are now
located in the first building to the left.) If you're venturing south of the
border zone, this is where you'll need to pick up your tourist card. The bank
is next door as well, and most of the folks speak enough English to be very
helpful. If you're just visiting Tijuana, continue walking straight ahead,
under the covered walkway, known as "corredor turistico,"

Please show your source of information..... This is directly from the US GOV travel website

Since March 1, 2010, all U.S. citizens – including children – have been required to present a valid passport or passport card for travel into Mexico. While documents are not routinely checked along the land border, Mexican authorities at immigration checkpoints approximately 20 to 30 kilometers from the border with the U.S. will often conduct vehicle and document inspections and will require valid travel documents and an entry permit or Forma Migratoria Multiple (FMM). All U.S. citizens entering by land and traveling farther than 20 kilometers into Mexico should stop at an immigration checkpoint to obtain an FMM, even if not explicitly directed to do so by Mexican officials. Beyond the 20-30 kilometer border zone, all non-Mexican citizens must have valid immigration documents (FMM, FM2, FM3 or FME) regardless of the original place of entry. Failure to present an FMM when checking in for an international flight departing Mexico can result in delays or missed flights as airlines may insist that a valid FMM be obtained from Mexican immigration authorities (Instituto Nacional de Migración, INM) before issuing a boarding pass.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html