you have to pay $13.50 to vote in pennsylvania

[kelly4]

My grandmother
has a Drivers license
it expired 25 years ago and doesnt even have a picture
last time she was at the bank was probably 1995
All her checks go there They never ask for ID

She cannot get a state Id though
See her birth certificate has her listed as boy
And even though she has lived worked and raised a family here in teh USA for all her life

She cannot get what is needed to vote

She is one of thousands of people in the USA who are now disenfranchised
But the Republicans have done the math and since it affects a lot more Likely democrat voters than Republican ones
They are OK with it

That story gets lamer every time you tell it...

Oh, BTW, is this your crazy racist grandma?

 

[canndo]

That story gets lamer every time you tell it...

Oh, BTW, is this your crazy racist grandma?

The story is anecdotal, granted, but it illustrates the problem rather well. voter ID was never formulated to guarantee legitimate elections but to surpress Democrat's votes.


Simple and plain as can be. That statement is backed with enough evidence to convince anyone who does not operate according to a partisan agenda.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

The story is anecdotal, granted, but it illustrates the problem rather well. voter ID was never formulated to guarantee legitimate elections but to surpress Democrat's votes.Simple and plain as can be. That statement is backed with enough evidence to convince anyone who does not operate according to a partisan agenda.

Horseshit.

Most people that support ID requirements have ZERO interest in suppressing votes. There may be some people who believe the same horseshit you believe and welcome that outcome if it actually pans out, but they are an infinitesimal percentage of the supporters. The arguments I've seen on this thread against voter ID laws are laughable at best.

I could spend several paragraphs dissecting the stupidity and fallacies, but what's the point? It really doesn't matter, even if I laid out a tangible, lucid and incontrovertible argument, it would either be ignored, chalked up to underlying racist leanings or simply met with a poorly contrived jpeg with a flaccid message scrawled upon it.

Yeah, I think I'll just stick with...Horseshit.

 

[ChesusRice]

Horseshit.

Most people that support ID requirements have ZERO interest in suppressing votes. There may be some people who believe the same horseshit you believe and welcome that outcome if it actually pans out, but they are an infinitesimal percentage of the supporters. The arguments I've seen on this thread against voter ID laws are laughable at best.

I could spend several paragraphs dissecting the stupidity and fallacies, but what's the point? It really doesn't matter, even if I laid out a tangible, lucid and incontrovertible argument, it would either be ignored, chalked up to underlying racist leanings or simply met with a poorly contrived jpeg with a flaccid message scrawled upon it.

Yeah, I think I'll just stick with...Horseshit.

All the people who support Voter ID say it is to prevent Voter Fraud
Yet have no evidence that Voter Fraud is a problem

 

[haight]

so let me get this straight: according to you, when person A makes an assertion, it is not the duty of person A to support that assertion, but rather for person B to prove that assertion wrong?

OK, let's play that game.

when muyloco was 15 years old, his drunken father in law forced him to rape a kangaroo while on a trip to australia. muyloco magically impregnated that kangaroo and that child is now being locked in muyloco's basement like a gimp. muyloco also collects welfare and masturbates to images of retarded wombats on wednesday eveningsuntil you disprove that, it's ALL true.

Do you still beat your wife?

 

[SSHZ]

My general feeling is: If you can't afford the $13, you probably shouldn't be voting anyway. Either way, PA is making ID's available at no charge for people who can't afford them. They are working out the logistics.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

or request an absentee ballot and mail it in. that kind of destroys whatever you just said.

Not exactly. Just add absentee ballot to my last sentence. So it should read:

I guess the only way to avoid any poll tax is to be unemployed and walk to your polling location or request an absentee ballot.

How to request an absentee ballot in Texas:

Go online to the website. Shit! Gotta pay for Internet!


Never mind that one.


How to request an absentee ballot in tx:


fill out the form and mail it in with a stamp. Shit! Gotta buy the stamp!


Never mind that one too.




Seriously, that's what you gotta do here.


I will quit my job and walk across the street. That's all I can do to avoid these pesky poll taxes.

 

[beenthere]

how is it not a poll tax when you have to pay money to the government before you can vote?

No one is forcing any American citizen to vote, voting is 100% voluntary and there is no such tax levied on any citizen as a requirement to vote.
If democrats are so worried about poor people being disenfranchised, why doesn't the DNC pay for the IDs?
Hell, Obama and the democrats have raised hundreds of millions of dollars for his 2012 campaign, it would be a drop in the bucket for them.

 

[UncleBuck]

Do you still beat your wife?

you asked a loaded question which i reject.

 

[UncleBuck]

Not exactly. Just add absentee ballot to my last sentence. So it should read:

I guess the only way to avoid any poll tax is to be unemployed and walk to your polling location or request an absentee ballot.

How to request an absentee ballot in Texas:

Go online to the website. Shit! Gotta pay for Internet!


Never mind that one.


How to request an absentee ballot in tx:


fill out the form and mail it in with a stamp. Shit! Gotta buy the stamp!


Never mind that one too.




Seriously, that's what you gotta do here.


I will quit my job and walk across the street. That's all I can do to avoid these pesky poll taxes.

false equivalence.

in order to vote in PA, you have to pay a sum of money directly to the government in order to be able to vote. and a stamp does not cost $13.50. not to mention free internet at the library. or just call them.

you FAIL.

 

[UncleBuck]

No one is forcing any American citizen to vote, voting is 100% voluntary and there is no such tax levied on any citizen as a requirement to vote.
If democrats are so worried about poor people being disenfranchised, why doesn't the DNC pay for the IDs?
Hell, Obama and the democrats have raised hundreds of millions of dollars for his 2012 campaign, it would be a drop in the bucket for them.

have you ever heard of the 24th amendment, or is that amendment on the list along with nitrogen?

if you want to vote in PA, you have to pay a sum of money to the government.

should i post the definition of what a tax is for you?

 

[beenthere]

how is it not a poll tax when you have to pay money to the government before you can vote?

A poll tax is a tax (which is illegal) levied on citizens in order to vote, the voter ID law is a FEE imposed to prove identification, big difference Sparky.

 

[UncleBuck]

A poll tax is a tax (which is illegal) levied on citizens in order to vote, the voter ID law is a FEE imposed to prove identification, big difference Sparky.

no offense, but you righties vacillate pretty heavy on the whole tax versus fee thing, as we just witnessed when the SCOTUS rules in favor of obamacare.

but let's see what the definition of a tax is:
[h=2]tax[/h]   [taks] Show IPA
noun 1. a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc.



we've finally a tax the righties love!

 

[beenthere]

no offense, but you righties vacillate pretty heavy on the whole tax versus fee thing, as we just witnessed when the SCOTUS rules in favor of obamacare.

but let's see what the definition of a tax is:
tax

   [taks] Show IPA
noun 1. a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc.

That's funny because here in liberal lala land, the democrats tell us business owners that fees are different than taxes. I guess if you live by the sword ya got to die by the sword, right amigo! LOL



Fees vs. Taxes - what’s the difference?
A fee is a charge for use of a service or amenity - the amount of which is related to the cost of providing that service or amenity. Thus, licensing fees for hunting and fishing help fund game wardens, forestry service personnel, equipment, and property, etc. while fees for visiting state parks similarly help provide for personnel, property, upkeep, and the like. The key feature of fees is that the user of a given good or service pays, and the funds collected are related to the purpose of providing the good or service.
A tax, on the other hand, while it may be applied to a particular good or service or more generally to the population at large, is collected to raise general purpose revenues.

 

[UncleBuck]

That's funny because here in liberal lala land, the democrats tell us business owners that fees are different than taxes. I guess if you live by the sword ya got to die by the sword, right amigo! LOL



Fees vs. Taxes - what’s the difference?
A fee is a charge for use of a service or amenity - the amount of which is related to the cost of providing that service or amenity. Thus, licensing fees for hunting and fishing help fund game wardens, forestry service personnel, equipment, and property, etc. while fees for visiting state parks similarly help provide for personnel, property, upkeep, and the like. The key feature of fees is that the user of a given good or service pays, and the funds collected are related to the purpose of providing the good or service.
A tax, on the other hand, while it may be applied to a particular good or service or more generally to the population at large, is collected to raise general purpose revenues.

you're right, fees and taxes seem to have differences.

fees are for a specific service or amenity, voting is not a service or amenity.

taxes are more generally for the population at large.

you could even try to argue that this is a poll penalty rather than a tax, but that would make you sound even more absurd than you currently sound arguing that it is a good idea to force citizens to pay money to the government in order to vote, despite what the 24th says.

i hope these links help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Amendment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

 

[beenthere]

you're right, fees and taxes seem to have differences.

fees are for a specific service or amenity, voting is not a service or amenity.

taxes are more generally for the population at large.

you could even try to argue that this is a poll penalty rather than a tax, but that would make you sound even more absurd than you currently sound arguing that it is a good idea to force citizens to pay money to the government in order to vote, despite what the 24th says.

i hope these links help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24th_Amendment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen

Hey Sparky, maybe you should personally email all this discovery of yours to Eric Holder, I'm sure if he has all this information at his disposal, he'll file a federal a lawsuit to fight it!

 

[UncleBuck]

Hey Sparky, maybe you should personally email all this discovery of yours to Eric Holder, I'm sure if he has all this information at his disposal, he'll file a federal a lawsuit to fight it!

there already is a lawsuit smarty.

 

[beenthere]

there already is a lawsuit smarty.

Then it's a win win for me. If fees are declared taxes then California will have to legislate all regulations fees (taxes) which will take it out of the hands of bureaucrats!

 

[slipstar059]

Can you please list all the voting fraud cases in the last 2 decades?

Isn't that how Bush was elected the second time around? Some odd 53,000 dead people voted for him in Florida, I was living in Florida, and I never once saw people gathered in mass to support Bush, but Kerry supporters were all over the place. I wonder if Jeb had anything to do with the outcome, and before you go label me as a conspiriacy theorist, don't forget senior was the head of the C.I.A. (and they know how to rig an election).

Also why are our votes being tallied by a Spanish company?

I'm proud to be Socially liberal, and Economically conservative (Libertarian).

 

[canndo]

A poll tax is a tax (which is illegal) levied on citizens in order to vote, the voter ID law is a FEE imposed to prove identification, big difference Sparky.

Unfortunately UB has gotten folks off on the wrong horse here. Poll tax, no poll tax, the point really has nothing to do with the cost. Beenthere, how about a direct exclaimation.

do you support PA voter ID that inhibits hundreds of thousands of legitimate voters from casting their ballots while a the same time stopping perhaps one or two instances of voter fraud?