st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to seeing that.
I use my bulbs for 12 months before replacing them and don't notice any difference in yield or quality.
Anyone using CMH bulbs?!?
- Thread starter Trichyn9ne
- Start date
I use my bulbs for 12 months before replacing them and don't notice any difference in yield or quality.
mipainpatient
Active Member
brand? I have posted some interesting stuff on PAR meters in the past, if I can find something related to your unit I will share it. PAR meters dont perform consistently with differing light output types so you can have two meters differ on the same sunlight reading, and you would expect them to differ on artificial light source but the discrepancy will not be consistent with how they differed on the sunlight. Meaning there are certain limitations to spectral range detection which cannot be overcome by putting a PAR filter on a lux meter but most "affordable" PAR meters are just that. Not knocking or trolling, just interested in seeing how your tests go and want to contribute if i can.
mpp
also are you testing with sealed hoods or no? if so glass or quartz? (saw you said glass, happen to have repeated that test with a UV meter???)
Taking different readings at different distances/angles?
doing the tests inside of a reflective room/tent or open?
Cory and trevor
Well-Known Member
How long you been holed up in the lab? LOL. I can tell you have done some serious scientific protocol writing.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
interesting findings today.
first off, this is the meter I used http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14301-par-meter-with-integrated-or-remote-sensor.aspx
this is the set up I used
melonhead air cooled reflector
tested 2 bulbs today, usuio and new lumatek, findings are as follows
using a magnetic ballast
max output for ushio 2000nm it fluctuated around 1990
max output for lumatek 2080nm it fluctuated around 2055
using a new air cooled lumatek ballast
max output for lumatek 2470 fluctuation 2460
max output for ushio 2500 fluctuation is all over the place
on super lumens setting
lumatek 2520
ushio 2606, but it still has a lot of fluctuation compared to the lumatek.
more bulbs to come
first off, this is the meter I used http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14301-par-meter-with-integrated-or-remote-sensor.aspx
this is the set up I used
melonhead air cooled reflector
tested 2 bulbs today, usuio and new lumatek, findings are as follows
using a magnetic ballast
max output for ushio 2000nm it fluctuated around 1990
max output for lumatek 2080nm it fluctuated around 2055
using a new air cooled lumatek ballast
max output for lumatek 2470 fluctuation 2460
max output for ushio 2500 fluctuation is all over the place
on super lumens setting
lumatek 2520
ushio 2606, but it still has a lot of fluctuation compared to the lumatek.
more bulbs to come
mipainpatient
Active Member
touche
We all have our hoops to jump through and wheels to run on, no?
hoping to start my own lab actually.
Huel Perkins
Well-Known Member
First of all thanks for taking the time to do these tests and share the info.interesting findings today.
first off, this is the meter I used http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14301-par-meter-with-integrated-or-remote-sensor.aspx
this is the set up I used
melonhead air cooled reflector
tested 2 bulbs today, usuio and new lumatek, findings are as follows
using a magnetic ballast
max output for ushio 2000nm it fluctuated around 1990
max output for lumatek 2080nm it fluctuated around 2055
using a new air cooled lumatek ballast
max output for lumatek 2470 fluctuation 2460
max output for ushio 2500 fluctuation is all over the place
on super lumens setting
lumatek 2520
ushio 2606, but it still has a lot of fluctuation compared to the lumatek.
more bulbs to come
What was the brand of the magnetic ballast? I don't have much knowledge or experience with light meters, what is the unit of light it is measuring, in other words what does "nm" stand for?
Looking forward to more bulbs being tested, especially Hortilux Super HPS.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
Photosynthesis is driven by the number of photons between 400 and 700 nanometers (nm). This is called the Photosynthetic Photon
Flux (PPF) and is measured in micromoles (µmol) per meters
squared per second. PPF meters are commonly called quantum
meters because a quantum refers to the amount of energy carried
by a photon.
Quantum M
Cory and trevor
Well-Known Member
I was a lab rat for almost 11 years in the pharma/animal research field. I thought I heard a familiar dialect in your questions. LOL. You can take the rat out of the lab but you can't take the lab out of the rat. The sun is nice out here....but the feds force me back inside
I'm destined to live off artificail light I guess LOL
missnu
Well-Known Member
I use a 400w MH in veg, and a 400w CMH in flower. I like it...
I have flowered with nothing but MH and loved it...so I figured why not get a CMH so I have some of the red that people say you have to have...but I have found that it doesn't really matter...because like I said I can get the same harvest off of a MH as I can a CMH...as far as I can tell...Then again my yield has been larger since getting the CMH, but I am not so sure it isn't just because before I was using one tent, and now I have the 2 separate areas...Anyway I wish I had of just got a 1000w MH, as opposed to the 400w CMH, and they cost about the same...And any HPS ballast can run CMH bulbs...You just can't run a CMH on a digital ballast...
So the markup on the CMH lights is ridiculous. So, if you already have a magnetic HPS ballast, then just get a CMH bulb and see how you like it...the bulbs aren't terribly expensive.
I have flowered with nothing but MH and loved it...so I figured why not get a CMH so I have some of the red that people say you have to have...but I have found that it doesn't really matter...because like I said I can get the same harvest off of a MH as I can a CMH...as far as I can tell...Then again my yield has been larger since getting the CMH, but I am not so sure it isn't just because before I was using one tent, and now I have the 2 separate areas...Anyway I wish I had of just got a 1000w MH, as opposed to the 400w CMH, and they cost about the same...And any HPS ballast can run CMH bulbs...You just can't run a CMH on a digital ballast...
So the markup on the CMH lights is ridiculous. So, if you already have a magnetic HPS ballast, then just get a CMH bulb and see how you like it...the bulbs aren't terribly expensive.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
Hey Marty, would you mind translating for some of us? lmao.
For the record, I go online and buy all Eye Hortilux bulbs for about $80 apiece. I also go online and buy all Lumatek ballasts at aobut $250. I haven't been tempted to stray from either brand. I have always heard both are the best and always hear people argue about what is 2nd best. I take it you don't agree with the rumors I have always heard.
I do own a LUmatek 600w HPS, and a Bad Boy 1000MH, but neither of them are hooked up.
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
He's saying that most of those cheap light meters are not that accurate and that if we knew more we would want more.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
Haven't tested the eye yet. The new lumatek ballast is awesome. My quantums are super loud, you can't even tell the lumy is running. I am assuming the hortilux bulb will test high, the test will tell for sure. BUT. what if a $35 ultrasun puts out the same as a $80 hortilux. That's good info to have. I am also discovering other useful info thru these tests. I really want to know how much a bulb decreases over time.
FatMarty
Well-Known Member
Use an SLR, (or whatever it's called), camera for light level readings if you got one.
Most new digital cams have light meters of some sort that can be used for comparison tests if nothing else.
When I was researching building my T-8 fixture, (that beats T-5 HO bulbs lumens using less power than either T-5's or the original T-8's consume at the ballasts),
This guy had posted online in an aquarium forum about his test with some sort of handheld light meter.
Anyway he was able to get the factory rating of the lamp with original wiring in place to show on the meter he had.
So then he set it up wired 2X 'overdrive' and ran the same test with the meter in same spot, etc. and he was able to show the expected increase in lumens on the meter.
Was some sort of digital thing with probes, and maybe I could find it if you want more info, coupled with the photos of the testing it was a very impressive and reliable test.
I love my veg light - I got at least $200 into it - it wasn't one of those make it yourself and save things.
It works great and puts out only 80* F to a thermostat sitting on top of the 95% reflective aluminum reflector.
Most new digital cams have light meters of some sort that can be used for comparison tests if nothing else.
When I was researching building my T-8 fixture, (that beats T-5 HO bulbs lumens using less power than either T-5's or the original T-8's consume at the ballasts),
This guy had posted online in an aquarium forum about his test with some sort of handheld light meter.
Anyway he was able to get the factory rating of the lamp with original wiring in place to show on the meter he had.
So then he set it up wired 2X 'overdrive' and ran the same test with the meter in same spot, etc. and he was able to show the expected increase in lumens on the meter.
Was some sort of digital thing with probes, and maybe I could find it if you want more info, coupled with the photos of the testing it was a very impressive and reliable test.
I love my veg light - I got at least $200 into it - it wasn't one of those make it yourself and save things.
It works great and puts out only 80* F to a thermostat sitting on top of the 95% reflective aluminum reflector.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
Thanks, But I could care less about lumens, I'm concerned with P.A.R
lumens is what your eye sees, Photosynthetic active radiation is what a plant sees and uses. If you notice all the bulbs coming out these days are high P.A.R and lumens will not be a form of measurement in the future
Brightness is a description of light output, which is measured in lumens
Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) is the amount of light available for photosynthesis, which is light in the 400 to 700 nanometer wavelength range. PAR changes seasonally and varies depending on the latitude and time of day.
Levels are greatest during the summer at mid-day. Factors that reduce the amount of PAR available to plants include anything that reduces sunlight, such as cloud cover, shading by trees, and buildings. Air pollution also affects PAR by filtering out the amount of sunlight that can reach plants.
[h=5]Why is Photosynthetically Active Radiation Important?[/h]Photosynthetically Active Radiation is needed for photosynthesis and plant growth. Higher PAR promotes plant growth, and monitoring monitoring PAR is important to ensure plants are receiving adequate light for this process.
PAR values range from 0 to 3,000 millimoles per square meter. At night, PAR is zero. During mid-day in the summer, PAR often reaches 2,000 to 3,000 millimoles per square meter.
[h=5]How is Photosynthetically Active Radiation measured?[/h]Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) is reported as millimoles of light energy per square meter.
[h=5]Photosynthetically Active Radiation Technology[/h]Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) is measured by a silicon photovoltaic detector. This detector measures light in the 400 nanometer to 700 nanometer range.
Some PAR sensors measure the PPFD of photosynthetically active radiation. PPFD stands for photosynthetic photon flux density and is used to quantify PAR. This is the most popular type of light sensor among plant biologists, horticulturists, ecologists, and other environmental scientists.
mipainpatient
Active Member
Top graph- PAR, how the range of the visible light is perceived by plants (via pigment absorption)
bottom- PUR, how the range of visible light is USED by plants (based on CO2 consumption tests)
View attachment 2296790
(link may be bigger)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Par_action_spectrum.gif
what we see:
luminosity as per the visible spectrum (we see certain light ranges, thus we cant measure grow lights w our eyes or a simple lumen/lux meter alone as these are designed to measure light AS WE SEE IT)
also just to establish some of the limitations even with the silicon PV detector:
different company but still. this one has settings to "optimize" the lower (under 500nm) response but comes nowhere near to the PUR graph response slope, which is the "photovoltaic" system in plants you are trying to evaluate light output for.
bottom- PUR, how the range of visible light is USED by plants (based on CO2 consumption tests)
View attachment 2296790
(link may be bigger)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Par_action_spectrum.gif
what we see:
luminosity as per the visible spectrum (we see certain light ranges, thus we cant measure grow lights w our eyes or a simple lumen/lux meter alone as these are designed to measure light AS WE SEE IT)
also just to establish some of the limitations even with the silicon PV detector:
different company but still. this one has settings to "optimize" the lower (under 500nm) response but comes nowhere near to the PUR graph response slope, which is the "photovoltaic" system in plants you are trying to evaluate light output for.
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
pic links are no good,please try again
mipainpatient
Active Member
they are good now RIU just toying with me apparently
Huel Perkins
Well-Known Member
Wow, great info in this thread!