Business told to either give up their religion or give up their business

[MellowFarmer]

And that's where PPACA runs up against the first amendment. Some religions consider contraception a mortal sin. This is not a new concept that the Catholics invented just to cause Obama problems; Catholics have considered contraception a mortal sin for as long as there has been contraception. Obama obligingly stepped on his own dick when he started this war on religion.

That doesn't give them the right to discriminate against woman who practice what they consider a mortal sin.

 

[Antidisestablishmentarian]

You narrowed it down to "not a house wife"

Yes, yes I did lol.

I live in Texas. I'd prefer to be vague here.

 

[ginwilly]

That doesn't give them the right to discriminate against woman who practice what they consider a mortal sin.

Mellow this is a very sensitive subject, that's exactly why it was chosen.

If they were denying women who take contraception employment, if they were denying women the right to add a supplemental insurance plan, if they were denying women the right to get on their husbands plans instead, if they were denying women the right purchase pills otc, I'd make the signs when we picket.

What they are doing (as a private business) is offering an insurance plan that doesn't cover birth control.

The outrage was very fabricated and highly contagious.

 

[MellowFarmer]

Mellow this is a very sensitive subject, that's exactly why it was chosen.

If they were denying women who take contraception employment, if they were denying women the right to add a supplemental insurance plan, if they were denying women the right to get on their husbands plans instead, if they were denying women the right purchase pills otc, I'd make the signs when we picket.

What they are doing (as a private business) is offering an insurance plan that doesn't cover birth control.

The outrage was very fabricated and highly contagious.

I think what you are saying is that those who think business owners should cover birth control should picket owners that don't like you would picket my company for not covering pregnancy?

 

[ginwilly]

I think what you are saying is that those who think business owners should cover birth control should picket owners that don't like you would picket my company for not covering pregnancy?

I think a privately owned company should operate the best they see fit. If I disagree with those practices it is within my right not use that company or practice my first amendment and convince others to the do the same.

Different example would be something I see occurring on my job. I see what we call "old stroke" people that didn't receive proper rehab and could regain function if I could treat them. The government has outdated studies that says most function is gained back in the first 6 months and what they have after a year is all they'll ever get. For this reason they deny rehab for CVAs older than a year unless there has been a decline in condition. In the governments eyes you are only allowed to get worse, not better. They'll pay for a cane, a walker, a wheelchair in that order. If you get the wheelchair first, they won't pay for the rest.

It's not right, I don't agree with it, but it's well within their idiotic right to deny this coverage. For this reason I encourage people to get a supplemental insurance policy to their medicare.

The government, the biggest denier of existing conditions, is still allowed to practice this in spite of the health care bill. They are very good at diversion tactics.

 

[Mr Neutron]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/doj-colorado-family-give-your-religion-or-your-business


DAMN that Obama anyway, he wants these poor hardworking people to give up their business because they don't want to pay for those evil birth control pills.

(CNSNews.com) - The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.
“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.
In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

Yeah, who the hell do they think they are? Just because they started and own the business, they actually think they should be able to run it as they see fit?
Don't they realize that Obama knows what is better for everybody because he has so much experience? Come on people, open your eyes, Obama os the best thing that has ever happened to this country. Why, if it wasn't for him, we would all be slaves to whitey​.

 

[desert dude]

That doesn't give them the right to discriminate against woman who practice what they consider a mortal sin.

Disagree. The Church, as an employer, has the right to hire only practicing Catholics and to fire any employee who violates a basic precept of the church. This has been litigated before the Supreme Court, I think, and upheld. The Catholic church's first amendment rights guarantee that they do not have to provide contraception or abortion services.

 

[ChesusRice]

Disagree. The Church, as an employer, has the right to hire only practicing Catholics and to fire any employee who violates a basic precept of the church. This has been litigated before the Supreme Court, I think, and upheld. The Catholic church's first amendment rights guarantee that they do not have to provide contraception or abortion services.

Actually if they accept federal funds for anything
They have to

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Worked at a machine shop owned by some really wonderful christians
Problem was
Although it wasnt mandatory to attend
Those that didnt attent the before work prayer Didnt get promoted
Didnt get fired
But didnt get promoted either

OMFG, how terrible! Did Jesus come inside them afterwards? That's fucking rape, those assholes. I mean, if someone hates green colored walls, has to work next to some crackah as a black man, etc. Imagine having to listen to that bitch Shania Twain if your boss plays that music, rather than some good Snoop Dog. That's music torture! I've thought really hard. The only fair thing to do is just mail a check every week and for them not to do any work. Think of the mental anguish people go through.

 

[Dr Kynes]

How so? The government is expecting this employer to act exactly as all other employers are expected to act, why should this one get special treatment? Why should this one be allowed to decide that the rules don't apply to him, just because he claims his religion is against such things?

for the same reason the the government doesnt force yeshivah schools to feature fried pork sandwiches in the cafeteria, and does not require that moslem businesses stay open during ramadan.

the government has decided this "social good" is so important that next they will be telling us what kind of lightbulb we must buy, and who can and cannot grow and sell raw tobacco. oh wait sorry they already do that.

if you support government interference in the business affairs of catholics, then dont be surprised when your business is also targeted with some "social good" mandate that puts you in a position to compromise your morals and ethics, or shut down your business.

 

[Mr Neutron]

"When they came for the Communists, I said nothing, I was not a Communists. When they came for the Catholics, I said nothing because I was not a Catholic. When they came for the Jews, I said nothing because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and no one was left to speak up."

 

[Canna Sylvan]

That doesn't give them the right to discriminate against woman who practice what they consider a mortal sin.

If I had to listen to that drivel, I'd have mulched your plants too.

 

[MellowFarmer]

for the same reason the the government doesnt force yeshivah schools to feature fried pork sandwiches in the cafeteria, and does not require that moslem businesses stay open during ramadan.

the government has decided this "social good" is so important that next they will be telling us what kind of lightbulb we must buy, and who can and cannot grow and sell raw tobacco. oh wait sorry they already do that.

if you support government interference in the business affairs of catholics, then dont be surprised when your business is also targeted with some "social good" mandate that puts you in a position to compromise your morals and ethics, or shut down your business.

uh, my business is not recognized as a business under fed law supposedly for a "social good" however there is not a law saying all schools must serve pork or that a private business must be open certain days that's just silly.

 

[desert dude]

uh, my business is not recognized as a business under fed law supposedly for a "social good" however there is not a law saying all schools must serve pork or that a private business must be open certain days that's just silly.

MF, did you hear that whooshing sound? That was Kynes' point going right over your head.

 

[Dr Kynes]

uh, my business is not recognized as a business under fed law supposedly for a "social good" however there is not a law saying all schools must serve pork or that a private business must be open certain days that's just silly.

ok then, perhaps the vegan restaurant down the street might be required to include fish oil in their recipes where vegetable oil would be normally used, to ensure that their customers receive sufficient Omega 3 acids, for the good of their health.

or perhaps the vegetarian health food market will be required to stock beef pork and chicken to prevent discrimination against the people trapped in the "food deserts" we hear so much about these days?

does this begin to make sense now?

 

[MellowFarmer]

ok then, perhaps the vegan restaurant down the street might be required to include fish oil in their recipes where vegetable oil would be normally used, to ensure that their customers receive sufficient Omega 3 acids, for the good of their health.

or perhaps the vegetarian health food market will be required to stock beef pork and chicken to prevent discrimination against the people trapped in the "food deserts" we hear so much about these days?

does this begin to make sense now?

Nope! Not at all, let's rewind and see what I'm missing?

The Feds say All employers have to include certain prescription coverage or don't cover at all so Owner's who believe that birth control is a mortal sin are crying? The First Amendment ensures that church cannot interfere with state and as a concession the Founding Fathers through them some BS concessions which haven't changed, just ask anyone wanting to use cannabis instead of wine to worship or peyote or schrooms for a spiritual reason because white folks didn't know shit about any of them at that time. The State cannot be compelled to change the rules for Religion. Jefferson called it a Wall of Separation, keeping ignorant folks from making dumb ass laws based on myth.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Nope! Not at all, let's rewind and see what I'm missing?

The Feds say All employers have to include certain prescription coverage or don't cover at all so Owner's who believe that birth control is a mortal sin are crying? The First Amendment ensures that church cannot interfere with state and as a concession the Founding Fathers through them some BS concessions which haven't changed, just ask anyone wanting to use cannabis instead of wine to worship or peyote or schrooms for a spiritual reason because white folks didn't know shit about any of them at that time. The State cannot be compelled to change the rules for Religion. Jefferson called it a Wall of Separation, keeping ignorant folks from making dumb ass laws based on myth.

Thomas Jefferson's famous "wall of separation" quote is not found in the constitution, the federalist papers or any other document relating to the US constitution nor it's resulting agencies.

the phrase was used by Jefferson in a PERSONAL LETTER sent to the Danbury Connecticut Baptists Association in January 1802. This phrase has been used by the supreme court to prohibit religious instruction in public schools since 1948, the rulings have generally ensured that government not be used to endorse, or repudiate any particular religious denomination, thus creating a hands-off situation that is intended to protect the federal government from religious influences, and protect religion from government influences.

every state in the union as well as the federal government have religious exceptions for most laws regarding alchohol consumption, as well as special laws exempting tribal authorities and religions from the prohibition of mescaline and in some rare cases cannabis. ritual use of cannabis is an affirmative defense in the case of rastafari and some east indian denominations, but membership in a mansion or a temple's rolls is required, and you must generally prove that you are actually an observant member of the religion in question.

thus we have several cases and several established laws which make substantial exemptions for religious observance, while Obamacare demands that all employers sever their religious and ethical views from their business practices.

all banks in the US are required to abide by federal and state banking laws and regulations, without exception. MOSTLY!

Sharia banks operate outside federal and state banking laws and regulations, they do not pay interest,, nor do they charge interest,, they dio not participate in the FDIC program, nor in the federal reserve program. their formation administration and membership is in the form of a credit union based on religious laws from a far off land. they operate under scrutiny from a commission of specialists and clergymen to ensure the bank does not violate the special position it is granted under federal and state laws. any non-religious organization who attempted to set up a financial organization along similar lines would be busted for money laundering and fraud.

meanwhile catholics, and moslems both are required by Obamacare to either submit, and sacrifice their beliefs morals ethics and religious tenets on the altar of Obama's hubris,or cease engaging in employment or business at all.

demanding that others act in a manner you insist is right despite their religious or ethical objections is not constitutional, nor is it rational.

it is authoritarian, doctrinaire and criminal.

 

[ChesusRice]

Nope! Not at all, let's rewind and see what I'm missing?

The Feds say All employers have to include certain prescription coverage or don't cover at all so Owner's who believe that birth control is a mortal sin are crying? The First Amendment ensures that church cannot interfere with state and as a concession the Founding Fathers through them some BS concessions which haven't changed, just ask anyone wanting to use cannabis instead of wine to worship or peyote or schrooms for a spiritual reason because white folks didn't know shit about any of them at that time. The State cannot be compelled to change the rules for Religion. Jefferson called it a Wall of Separation, keeping ignorant folks from making dumb ass laws based on myth.

Law states that any employer that is open to the public and accepts federal funding and provides insurance for their employees must provide welness and birth control for women
Simple solution as I see it is
they dont have to accept federal funding or provide insurance

 

[ChesusRice]

Yes and the owner does not believe in contraceptives. So the government is forcing its ideals on the people. The exact opposite of what this country was founded on.

So he makes sure that all his employees are denied coverage in their insurance plans for contraceptives

Of course they are not pushing their religion onto their employees
...right?

 

[Dr Kynes]

So he makes sure that all his employees are denied coverage in their insurance plans for contraceptives

Of course they are not pushing their religion onto their employees
...right?

if i were a practicing catholic i would choose the plan that has the catholic diocese stamp of approval. insurance companies prepare plans for many different groups, from jews (no pig heart valves or pig derived insulin) to moslems (ditto, plus other restrictions) to christian scientists (the no-plan plan). demanding that all plans be the same for all purchasers is bullshit.

some employers choose plans based on their own convictions, because they pay for it for fuck's sake. you also conveniently forget that they will be REQUIRED to provide insurance or pay the fines which for a small business will be crippling. if the cheapest plan doesnt cover birth control pills or "contraceptive abortions" then the purchaser may simply have a financial reason for buying that plan, would that also be forbidden?

i choose my auto insurance based on my choices (and the minimums demanded by the bullshit insurance mandate) if Obamacare demands i get comprehensive coverage and uninsured motorist coverage does this mean i get it for the same price? nope of course not. Obamacare demands many things, it does not provide anything.