Business told to either give up their religion or give up their business

[canndo]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/doj-colorado-family-give-your-religion-or-your-business


DAMN that Obama anyway, he wants these poor hardworking people to give up their business because they don't want to pay for those evil birth control pills.

(CNSNews.com) - The Justice Department last week presented the Newland family of Colorado--who own Hercules Industries, a heating, ventilation and air-conditioning business--with what amounted to an ultimatum: Give up your religion or your business.
“Hercules Industries has ‘made no showing of a religious belief which requires that [it] engage in the [HVAC] business,” the Justice Department said in a formal filing in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado.
In response to the Justice Department’s argument that the Newlands can either give up practicing their religion or give up owning their business, the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is representing the family, said in a reply brief: "[T]o the extent the government is arguing that its mandate does not really burden the Newlands because they are free to abandon their jobs, their livelihoods, and their property so that others can take over Hercules and comply, this expulsion from business would be an extreme form of government burden.”

 

[Johnny Retro]

So the government would rather kill jobs than having jobs that do not comply with their heath care mandate? In your mind this is a good thing?

 

[canndo]

So the government would rather kill jobs than having jobs that do not comply with their heath care mandate? In your mind this is a good thing?

It isn't the government's call as to which thing the owner opts to do. If jobs are "killed" it will be the owner who does the slaying.

 

[Johnny Retro]

It isn't the government's call as to which thing the owner opts to do. If jobs are "killed" it will be the owner who does the slaying.

Yes and the owner does not believe in contraceptives. So the government is forcing its ideals on the people. The exact opposite of what this country was founded on.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I just love government policy: throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[canndo]

Yes and the owner does not believe in contraceptives. So the government is forcing its ideals on the people. The exact opposite of what this country was founded on.

It doesn't work that way. In the arena of religion he has his full complement of rights but once he extends his religion into the realm of commerce, he is subject to all of the rules that every other busines is subject to.

This is not a difficult concept. All of commerce is expected to adhere to certain regulations, no matter what the owner of that business believes or what his religion is.

The fact is that "his money" is actually a payment of sorts to his employees, he is paying his employees by way of offering them insurance.


Yet you would not agree if that employer objected to paying his employees because some of them are going to go out and purchase birth control pills with the wages he paid them.

there is little difference here.

 

[Gyroscope]

More government nonsense. I guess they won't be happy till they get it all.

 

[canndo]

I just love government policy: throw the baby out with the bath water.

How so? The government is expecting this employer to act exactly as all other employers are expected to act, why should this one get special treatment? Why should this one be allowed to decide that the rules don't apply to him, just because he claims his religion is against such things?

 

[canndo]

More government nonsense. I guess they won't be happy till they get it all.

I fail to see the "nonsense" here. The Catholics in his employ will not use the birth control will they?

 

[Gyroscope]

I fail to see the "nonsense" here. The Catholics in his employ will not use the birth control will they?

No.
So why should they have to pay for them ?

 

[Ringsixty]

I just love government policy: throw the baby out with the bath water.

Insert baby into blender and turn on high.

 

[ChesusRice]

Worked at a machine shop owned by some really wonderful christians
Problem was
Although it wasnt mandatory to attend
Those that didnt attent the before work prayer Didnt get promoted
Didnt get fired
But didnt get promoted either

 

[canndo]

I still don't get it - these folk "just want to be left alone" and they believe in personal responsibility. So they offer something they don't agree with in an insurance policy - but they don't believe that people should have a choice, they don't really believe in personal responsibility at all do they? and they don't really just want to be left alone, they want to enforce their religion on others.

Now what is the difference between this and company run by a group who are hard core dominionists - who believe that we have dominion over the earth and so we can if we wish pollute the air and water. This company produced electricity and they burn coal but they refuse to put scrubbers in their stacks because it is against their religion - is that ok? Is it ok to grant them an advantage in the marketplace because their religion exempts them from protecting the commons?

 

[ginwilly]

I can't believe people support this. Fuck Freedom, right in the Ass!!

Nobody is forcing anyone to work there, nobody is preventing them from getting an insurance policy that covers what they want, nobody is preventing them from paying a 10 dollar copay like they do on nearly EVERY OTHER PRESCRIPTION DRUG.

A construction company that employs all men now has premiums going up because they are forced to cover the pill. This is cheered? why? I mean, I know why insurance companies and big pharma are happy, but why is anyone else?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

How so? The government is expecting this employer to act exactly as all other employers are expected to act, why should this one get special treatment? Why should this one be allowed to decide that the rules don't apply to him, just because he claims his religion is against such things?

Let's assume the business is in the wrong. We are in a fuckin' recession where jobs are already scarce. So we get rid of more jobs to pay back companies over not allowing people to get their dick off? If it's really medical for BC pills, like a hormone imbalance, you can get an exception. If it's just not wanting a pregnancy, it's entertainment. I could use a $2,000 blu-ray player. My $400 player just isn't good enough. Takes 12 seconds to boot. That's just unacceptable and government needs to fix that for me.

 

[canndo]

I can't believe people support this. Fuck Freedom, right in the Ass!!

Nobody is forcing anyone to work there, nobody is preventing them from getting an insurance policy that covers what they want, nobody is preventing them from paying a 10 dollar copay like they do on nearly EVERY OTHER PRESCRIPTION DRUG.

A construction company that employs all men now has premiums going up because they are forced to cover the pill. This is cheered? why? I mean, I know why insurance companies and big pharma are happy, but why is anyone else?

Government makes birth control coverage manditory, they cannot get an insurance policy that does not have that inclusion. This is not about insurance company or pharma profits, it is about and strictly about commerce.

 

[canndo]

Let's assume the business is in the wrong. We are in a fuckin' recession where jobs are already scarce. So we get rid of more jobs to pay back companies over not allowing people to get their dick off? If it's really medical for BC pills, like a hormone imbalance, you can get an exception. If it's just not wanting a pregnancy, it's entertainment. I could use a $2,000 blu-ray player. My $400 player just isn't good enough. Takes 12 seconds to boot. That's just unacceptable and government needs to fix that for me.

No comparison. If the regulations apply differenlty between those with religious reasons for not doing a thing and other companies then government is not being fair to all. The only way they might be is if they insisted that no business is to provide birth control for anyone.

 

[ginwilly]

Government makes birth control coverage manditory, they cannot get an insurance policy that does not have that inclusion. This is not about insurance company or pharma profits, it is about and strictly about commerce.

keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Our leadership is in the pocket of these 2 industries as well the hospital conglomerates. Both sides are, just in case you thought that was a slam on your team.

 

[ginwilly]

No comparison. If the regulations apply differenlty between those with religious reasons for not doing a thing and other companies then government is not being fair to all. The only way they might be is if they insisted that no business is to provide birth control for anyone.

or, that birth control is treated like all other prescription drugs that are also for health reasons. That might be even more fair to everyone.

 

[canndo]

keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Our leadership is in the pocket of these 2 industries as well the hospital conglomerates. Both sides are, just in case you thought that was a slam on your team.

I can't disagree. If it is a given then we have to work with it don't we? How about we start by limiting the power of those industries, maybe by not letting them contribute money to political action groups or not being able to do it quietly?

Beyond that, the point I am trying to make is that conservatives are claiming that this is an infringement on our 1st Amendment rights when it is no such thing.