polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
play with the coral waves fonz.... if your after True amt. of IR put a 70w hps in there vs. the halogen....
A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain
- Thread starter PetFlora
- Start date
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Well, I already purchased 4 of the Halogens. They were only $7 each so it's not much of a loss. If anything else I can use them in my home lighting. LOL I'm actually after the deep red 660-700nm mainly. The added IR is a bonus. I think that they will increase yield with all the added red in them. Guess we'll find out in a couple months! I tossed a Coral Wave in my 2ft T5 HO fixture to give it a whirl.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Has anyone ever used the black and white plastic rolls for building a rooting chamber? I was thinking how lightweight, cheap, easy, disposable and how it would be easier to build a deeper chamber with the stuff. I think it's 10 ft wide so you could fairly easily build a chamber with minimal seems kind of like a shower curtain or something. Then for the lid I would use a sturdy piece of 1/4" black HD poly E with 3" holes for the net cups. I'm going to try the STG Hail for a starting base. The chamber depth is what is making it so difficult for people to achieve the fluffy roots since they can't get the sprayers far enough away from the roots. I'm going to try making a spray manifold with 3 misters and have it sit on the bottom (on a stand off the floor) and keep them at least 2 ft away from the roots. I like this shower curtain idea at least for a trial run. The plastic is white on one side and black on the other so it would really keep the heat and light out of the root zone. For the base I'm thinking of just using the tupperware that I've been using or a F and D hydro tray to catch any left over water(hopefully there will be minimal). I've always recycled the water before, but I'm thinking of trying a "mist to waste" now. Comments/suggestions?
Kite High
Well-Known Member
tried ir supplementation and found no detectable benefit but lots of temp problems...good luck
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
This was done years ago, but I think a better option would be polystyrene 4 X 8 sheets, sided with reflective material. It comes in various thicknesses. Available at Lowes/HD. Build a frame with 2 x2s, cut sheets (the store will cut to your size free). Affix to frame...
I still cannot get in the zone for explosive root hairs. Running 7 seconds wet (more than 7 sec gets too wet with 4 heads) was up to 19 minutes dry for a few days, but roots looked dried out; dropped to 18 for a few days, still dry, yesterday I dropped to 17. For 4 days I have been placing a 1g jug of frozen water inside the pod to deal with the heat/humidity. It lasts all day
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Cool, so do you put the reflective material on the inside of the chamber or outside? I'm pretty sure I've seen that stuff before and it would definitely make it easier to cut.
I think TB's advice with the extremely short mist times and then shorter off times is the way to go. My timer doesn't do the ultra short mist times so I have never been able to try it, but it makes sense to have a constant thinned out fine mist environment. It really depends on the size of your chamber, external humidity and temp/etc. like you said before. Just do what works best for you. Remember, as your plants grow and the root zone becomes larger, the roots are going to require more frequent waterings. You have extremely good help here. These guys are already pros, just listen to them.
I've always done the SOG method with aero so the mist/off times are going to be different than when you are growing bigger bushes.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I have improved my DIY 21st Century Flood & Drain
Where I was letting the holes in the pvc that water the top of the Air Pot flood the lava rock, I decided to see how low pressure mist heads would work. I have 3-4 different types... I made a ~ 6" pvc square around the main stalk with one mist head on each side, aimed down onto the lava rock
Anyway, not only does this work great, it requires ~ 1/16th nutes. I was using 5g of nutes in a 5g kitty litter pail. I placed the pail inside a thick wall Styrofoam cooler. Additionally, I was replacing a 1/2g jug of frozen water twice a day to keep temps down.
But really, each .9g AP filled with lava rock only needs ~ 1 quart of nutes per each 30-60 minute feed cycle to feed the roots and saturate the lava rock sufficiently until the next feed cycle. And I only have one AP/ 2 x 2 grow area with this strain Big Girl F1, my first cross
5g was ~16xs what I use now per feed cycle!, but I needed that much head room due to the volume of nutes coming out of the holes in the pvc: in just 23 seconds the rez was nearly dry. The holes that were already in the pvc (from when I first tried low pressure aero) provided the inspiration, so all I had to do was screw the lp mist heads in, and I already had them.
Since I am changing the nutes out a minimum of once a week during mid flower on, I now save considerable $$$ on nutes, plus needing only 5% of the RO water.
I was in Wally World lookin for automotive stuff , and found a 2g insulated Coleman cooler for $8.88! It's wide enough to hold the pump + Oxystone (cylinder) + quart of frozen water. PLUS, the lip is ~ 4" lower than the pail, making it easier to drain back into
Where I was only running the on cycle for the minimum setting- 23 seconds and draining ~ 4.5g from the rez, I now run a full minute to achieve ~ 1 quart of nutes cascading down through the lava rock- I think this slower trickle is beneficial to saturate all the nooks and crannies in the lava rock.
This will also work better in early veg as the low pressure mist heads will gently wet the delicate young plants, instead of heavy streams crashing into them. Will take a pic along with nug update Friday
Where I was letting the holes in the pvc that water the top of the Air Pot flood the lava rock, I decided to see how low pressure mist heads would work. I have 3-4 different types... I made a ~ 6" pvc square around the main stalk with one mist head on each side, aimed down onto the lava rock
Anyway, not only does this work great, it requires ~ 1/16th nutes. I was using 5g of nutes in a 5g kitty litter pail. I placed the pail inside a thick wall Styrofoam cooler. Additionally, I was replacing a 1/2g jug of frozen water twice a day to keep temps down.
But really, each .9g AP filled with lava rock only needs ~ 1 quart of nutes per each 30-60 minute feed cycle to feed the roots and saturate the lava rock sufficiently until the next feed cycle. And I only have one AP/ 2 x 2 grow area with this strain Big Girl F1, my first cross
5g was ~16xs what I use now per feed cycle!, but I needed that much head room due to the volume of nutes coming out of the holes in the pvc: in just 23 seconds the rez was nearly dry. The holes that were already in the pvc (from when I first tried low pressure aero) provided the inspiration, so all I had to do was screw the lp mist heads in, and I already had them.
Since I am changing the nutes out a minimum of once a week during mid flower on, I now save considerable $$$ on nutes, plus needing only 5% of the RO water.
I was in Wally World lookin for automotive stuff , and found a 2g insulated Coleman cooler for $8.88! It's wide enough to hold the pump + Oxystone (cylinder) + quart of frozen water. PLUS, the lip is ~ 4" lower than the pail, making it easier to drain back into
Where I was only running the on cycle for the minimum setting- 23 seconds and draining ~ 4.5g from the rez, I now run a full minute to achieve ~ 1 quart of nutes cascading down through the lava rock- I think this slower trickle is beneficial to saturate all the nooks and crannies in the lava rock.
This will also work better in early veg as the low pressure mist heads will gently wet the delicate young plants, instead of heavy streams crashing into them. Will take a pic along with nug update Friday
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Drain to waste is one of the best benefits of a proper hp aero grow imo... With your larger chamber you may be able to get good enough results to DTW economically. I guess it would be a good idea to try to minimize any air leaks in the chamber so the mist stays in without letting the roots dry unevenly in certain sections. Good luck and keep us posted.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Now this is interesting
The nuggz on the plants in my hpa rig are soft, airy, fluffy whereas the nuggz on the plant gorwing in my DIY 21st C kit (same strain, though expressing different genetics) are super dense, and tight.
At least one reason comes to mind, I did not have my feed cycle settings down pat, still working on them (but closer), but in the end I may need to add an accumulator in order to appreciate what true hpa can do. I don't see that happening when my DIY 21st Century Flood and Drain rocks, and is super easy to make and take care of
The nuggz on the plants in my hpa rig are soft, airy, fluffy whereas the nuggz on the plant gorwing in my DIY 21st C kit (same strain, though expressing different genetics) are super dense, and tight.
At least one reason comes to mind, I did not have my feed cycle settings down pat, still working on them (but closer), but in the end I may need to add an accumulator in order to appreciate what true hpa can do. I don't see that happening when my DIY 21st Century Flood and Drain rocks, and is super easy to make and take care of
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Don't expect to master the aero game the first time around. It's not an easy battle. It took me years to get something that actually worked rigged up. I have yet to see anything grow as fast and with as high of yield. I swear I was getting 3" of growth per day. Able to switch to 12/12 after only 1 week of veg. Makes harvesting quicker and the whole process is amazing.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
There has to be a little air leak or the chamber will explode over time. LOL. This was my first mistake I made having an airtight chamber. I came back to the room the next day only to see my tupperware chamber had turned into a basketball.
I did some testing with my misters yesterday to see how far away optimal would be with my pressures. It seems 2 ft is going to work fine. It's amazing how the mist just floats around the room. I had a flashlight to see the mist as it floated around and I noticed that at a certain point, the flashlight could be within the mist cloud and yet not accumulate moisture or get wet. This was at about 2 ft away from the mist nozzle. I'm having a hard time deciding where to place the nozzles this time. If I put them on the bottom, it seems like the roots will eventually find the water source and then drop. If I put them on the top, the roots will get a direct hit. It seems like the best way may be to put them off to the bottom corner and let the mist just fill the chamber on it's own. This would require a longer mist time however. I'm guessing at least 5 seconds to fill the chamber with just one mist nozzle. I may even start with just one to see how it goes. I'm not worried about clogging as I've never had one clog on me yet. I'm using a 200 micron in-line filter on the outlet side of the pump. It catches everything.
If I place the nozzles on the side it would require me to have a 2 ft space in between the roots and the walls which seems somewhat impractical.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
lol, I didn't mean that airtight, just reasonable enough to keep the moisture levels up between cycles
It's a little experimenting to find the proper mist, I concluded the "sweet spot" in my setup was when the roots got the peripheral of the spray radius, but not a direct head on spray. I'm not positive, but to completely indirectly mist with hydraulic nozzles may only get the smaller micron mist to the roots and may cause some issues there, although everyone's situation is different I guess. It would be good if you had a way to be able to move the misters around and experiment with placement as the plants grow until you find their most optimal permanent position.This is not Petflora's first rodeo... I'm glad to see him find a growing style that fits him and gives good results either way. -congrats pf!
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Thanks TB. I dialed the dry time back to 13:15 with on of 7 seconds. It appears that the root hairs are coming back. In the end, had it not been for Fonz, I would never have raised the w/d times anywhere close to where they are now. So I think I will have hpa (sans accum) down to a point where I will give it one more shot using clones from Big Girl F1 in both systems. That will be a straight up A/B.
The airy hpa nuggz was remedied by turning the pet cock back on.
Now they still are not as tight as my F & D nuggz, but...
Yesterday I decided to use the thick Styrofoam box (that I replaced with the Coleman cooler to my F & D) to further insulate the hpa rez more than the several wraps of Reflectex. Well hours went by before I realized I neglected to turn the petcock back on, so the plants were feeding off their stored water. Fortunately, I caught the problem before they wilted
The airy hpa nuggz was remedied by turning the pet cock back on.
Now they still are not as tight as my F & D nuggz, but... Yesterday I decided to use the thick Styrofoam box (that I replaced with the Coleman cooler to my F & D) to further insulate the hpa rez more than the several wraps of Reflectex. Well hours went by before I realized I neglected to turn the petcock back on, so the plants were feeding off their stored water. Fortunately, I caught the problem before they wilted
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Petflora, I am concerned about your petcock... 
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
petcock?
the key to the pet cock is you have to sit on it to keep it warm or it will never hatch
no but really though i understand it is valve but how is it used? sometimes it so hard to keep up with you pet your writing is so formal i usually have to read it several times to understand everything.
the key to the pet cock is you have to sit on it to keep it warm or it will never hatch
no but really though i understand it is valve but how is it used? sometimes it so hard to keep up with you pet your writing is so formal i usually have to read it several times to understand everything.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Good to hearThanks TB. I dialed the dry time back to 13:15 with on of 7 seconds. It appears that the root hairs are coming back. In the end, had it not been for Fonz, I would never have raised the w/d times anywhere close to where they are now. So I think I will have hpa (sans accum) down to a point where I will give it one more shot using clones from Big Girl F1 in both systems. That will be a straight up A/B.
The airy hpa nuggz was remedied by turning the pet cock back on.
Yesterday I decided to use the thick Styrofoam box (that I replaced with the Coleman cooler to my F & D) to further insulate the hpa rez more than the several wraps of Reflectex. Well hours went by before I realized I neglected to turn the petcock back on, so the plants were feeding off their stored water. Fortunately, I caught the problem before they wilted
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I'm going to try something new. I've got this 20 gallon grey trash can by rubbermaid that has about 30" of depth to it. I will be putting only 1 spray nozzle on the bottom off to one side pointing upwards. In the lid I'm drilling 3 holes for the cuttings on the opposite side of the spray nozzle so they get only indirect mist. 2 of the plants will be closer to the direct mist while the one will be completely off to the side. It takes about 5 seconds to fill the whole trash can with a fine mist. Should be interesting to see how they react. I will post some photos when I get to the point of root growth.lol, I didn't mean that airtight, just reasonable enough to keep the moisture levels up between cycles
This is not Petflora's first rodeo... I'm glad to see him find a growing style that fits him and gives good results either way. -congrats pf!
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Interested to watch. Please start a thread.
You can move it to the center by simply cutting the length of tubing you need and couple it together from the connector mounted in the side. You can do the same with it to raise/lower the mist head.
Consider replacing that lid, or plugging those holes and put one in the middle. My 2 are off center, and the back sides of the roots don't fluff. (visualize big tits, flat ass). I think my mist is Fd up because of this
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Glad I was able to give you all a chuckle
Mine has a mind of his own. He's extremely picky, and if he ain't interested, I have no shot
Pet Cock : is an o/o valve with an in & out. I have them on my rezs with quick fittings. This simplifies changing out nutes in my 5g rezes. The ~ 50 pounds is manageable thanks to strong handles. I carry the bucket out and dump it in my garden.
This one is similar to the one on my motorcycle & lawnmower, both of which use carburetors. Not needed with fuel injection
http://maxpartslist.com/Inline-Fuel-Petcock-Valve-p438.html?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=organic
Mine has a mind of his own. He's extremely picky, and if he ain't interested, I have no shot
Pet Cock : is an o/o valve with an in & out. I have them on my rezs with quick fittings. This simplifies changing out nutes in my 5g rezes. The ~ 50 pounds is manageable thanks to strong handles. I carry the bucket out and dump it in my garden.
This one is similar to the one on my motorcycle & lawnmower, both of which use carburetors. Not needed with fuel injection
http://maxpartslist.com/Inline-Fuel-Petcock-Valve-p438.html?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=organic