The Ron Paul machine grinds through the republican establishment

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
you were the one who brought up debtor's prison, blame yourself for the topic switching.

hint: there is no penalty for non-payment. it's one of the best kept secrets about the bill. if you watched o'donnell you would know this.

The Joint Committee on Taxation's states:
The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.

All of this nonsense about you wanting people to read the bill and you haven't even read it, you just parrot what Lawrence says.

 

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
depends if it is a criminal or non-criminal penalty now, doesn't it?

why does NO ONE cite the legislation itself? why is everyone too chicken shit to cite the actual legislation?

jesus christ, what a bunch of pussies, all of you.


Want to stop whining now


"Beginning in 2014, most individuals will be required to maintain minimum
essential coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $350 in 2015, $750 in 2016 and indexed thereafter"

From the cover summary ^^^

Sec. 1501\5000A IRC
‘‘Sec. 5000A. Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.
‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
‘‘(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.—An applicable individual shall for each month beginning
after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.
‘‘(b) SHARED RESPONSIBILITY PAYMENT.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—øReplaced by section 10106(b)¿ If a taxpayer who is an applicable individual, or an applicable individual for whom the taxpayer is liable under paragraph (3),
fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more
months, then, except as provided in subsection (e), there is
hereby imposed on the taxpayer a penalty with respect to such
failures in the amount determined under subsection (c).
‘‘(2) INCLUSION WITH RETURN.—Any penalty imposed by
this section with respect to any month shall be included with
a taxpayer’s return under chapter 1 for the taxable year which
includes such month.
‘‘(3) PAYMENT OF PENALTY.—If an individual with respect
to whom a penalty is imposed by this section for any month—
‘‘(A) is a dependent (as defined in section 152) of another taxpayer for the other taxpayer’s taxable year including such month, such other taxpayer shall be liable for
such penalty, or
‘‘(B) files a joint return for the taxable year including
such month, such individual and the spouse of such individual shall be jointly liable for such penalty.
‘‘(c) AMOUNT OF PENALTY.—øParagraphs (1) and (2) were revised in their entirety by section 10106(b)(2)¿

Sec. 1501 PPACA (Consolidated) 146

‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The amount of the penalty imposed by
this section on any taxpayer for any taxable year with respect
to failures described in subsection (b)(1) shall be equal to the
lesser of—

‘‘(A) the sum of the monthly penalty amounts determined under paragraph (2) for months in the taxable year
during which 1 or more such failures occurred, or

‘‘(B) an amount equal to the national average premium
for qualified health plans which have a bronze level of coverage, provide coverage for the applicable family size involved, and are offered through Exchanges for plan years
beginning in the calendar year with or within which the
taxable year ends.

‘‘(2) MONTHLY PENALTY AMOUNTS.—For purposes of paragraph (1)(A), the monthly penalty amount with respect to any
taxpayer for any month during which any failure described in
subsection (b)(1) occurred is an amount equal to
1⁄12 of the greater of the following amounts:

‘‘(A) FLAT DOLLAR AMOUNT.—An amount equal to the
lesser of—
‘‘(i) the sum of the applicable dollar amounts for
all individuals with respect to whom such failure occurred during such month, or
‘‘(ii) 300 percent of the applicable dollar amount
(determined without regard to paragraph (3)(C)) for
the calendar year with or within which the taxable
year ends.

‘‘(B) PERCENTAGE OF INCOME.—øAs revised by section
1002(a)(1) of HCERA¿ An amount equal to the following
percentage of the excess of the taxpayer’s household income for the taxable year over the amount of gross income
specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer
for the taxable year:
‘‘(i) 1.0 percent for taxable years beginning in
2014.
‘‘(ii) 2.0 percent for taxable years beginning in
2015.
‘‘(iii) 2.5 percent for taxable years beginning after
2015.

‘‘(3) APPLICABLE DOLLAR AMOUNT.—øAs revised by section
10106(b)(3) and by section 1002(a)(2) of HCERA¿ For purposes
of paragraph (1)—

‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C), the applicable dollar amount is $695.

‘‘(B) PHASE IN.—The applicable dollar amount is $95
for 2014 and $325 for 2015.


‘‘(C) SPECIAL RULE FOR INDIVIDUALS UNDER AGE 18.—
If an applicable individual has not attained the age of 18
as of the beginning of a month, the applicable dollar
amount with respect to such individual for the month shall
be equal to one-half of the applicable dollar amount for the
calendar year in which the month occurs.

‘‘(D) INDEXING OF AMOUNT.—In the case of any calendar year beginning after 2016, the applicable dollaramount shall be equal to $695, increased by an amount equal to—
‘‘(i) $695, multiplied by
‘‘(ii) the cost-of-living adjustment determined
under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year, determined
by substituting ‘calendar year 2015’ for ‘calendar year
1992’ in subparagraph (B) thereof.
If the amount of any increase under clause (i) is not a multiple of $50, such increase shall be rounded to the next
lowest multiple of $50.
‘‘(4) TERMS RELATING TO INCOME AND FAMILIES.—For purposes of this section—
‘‘(A) FAMILY SIZE.—The family size involved with respect to any taxpayer shall be equal to the number of individuals for whom the taxpayer is allowed a deduction
under section 151 (relating to allowance of deduction for
personal exemptions) for the taxable year.
‘‘(B) HOUSEHOLD INCOME.—The term ‘household income’ means, with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable
year, an amount equal to the sum of—øshown to reflect
probable amendment made by section 1004(a)(1)(C) of
HCERA¿
‘‘(i) the modified adjusted gross income of the taxpayer, plus
‘‘(ii) the aggregate modified adjusted gross incomes of all other individuals who—
‘‘(I) were taken into account in determining
the taxpayer’s family size under paragraph (1),
and
‘‘(II) were required to file a return of tax imposed by section 1 for the taxable year.
‘‘(C) MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME.—øReplaced
by section 1004(a)(2)(B)¿ The term ‘modified adjusted gross
income’ means adjusted gross income increased by—
‘‘(i) any amount excluded from gross income under
section 911, and
‘‘(ii) any amount of interest received or accrued by
the taxpayer during the taxable year which is exempt
from tax.
‘‘(d) APPLICABLE INDIVIDUAL.—For purposes of this section—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘applicable individual’ means,
with respect to any month, an individual other than an individual described in paragraph (2), (3), or (4).
‘‘(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.—
‘‘(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION.—øReplaced
by section 10106(c)¿ Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is—
‘‘(i) a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof which is described in section 1402(g)(1),
and ‘‘(ii) an adherent of established tenets or teachings
of such sect or division as described in such section.
‘‘(B) HEALTH CARE SHARING MINISTRY.—
‘‘(i) IN GENERAL.—Such term shall not include any
individual for any month if such individual is a member of a health care sharing ministry for the month.
‘‘(ii) HEALTH CARE SHARING MINISTRY.—The term
‘health care sharing ministry’ means an organization—
‘‘(I) which is described in section 501(c)(3) and
is exempt from taxation under section 501(a),
‘‘(II) members of which share a common set of
ethical or religious beliefs and share medical expenses among members in accordance with those
beliefs and without regard to the State in which
a member resides or is employed,
‘‘(III) members of which retain membership
even after they develop a medical condition,
‘‘(IV) which (or a predecessor of which) has
been in existence at all times since December 31,
1999, and medical expenses of its members have
been shared continuously and without interruption since at least December 31, 1999, and
‘‘(V) which conducts an annual audit which is
performed by an independent certified public accounting firm in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles and which is made available to the public upon request.
‘‘(3) INDIVIDUALS NOT LAWFULLY PRESENT.—Such term
shall not include an individual for any month if for the month
the individual is not a citizen or national of the United States
or an alien lawfully present in the United States.
‘‘(4) INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS.—Such term shall not include an individual for any month if for the month the individual is incarcerated, other than incarceration pending the
disposition of charges.
‘‘(e) EXEMPTIONS.—No penalty shall be imposed under subsection (a) with respect to—
‘‘(1) INDIVIDUALS WHO CANNOT AFFORD COVERAGE.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Any applicable individual for any
month if the applicable individual’s required contribution
(determined on an annual basis) for coverage for the
month exceeds 8 percent of such individual’s household income for the taxable year described in section 1412(b)(1)(B)
of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. For purposes of applying this subparagraph, the taxpayer’s household income shall be increased by any exclusion from gross
income for any portion of the required contribution made
through a salary reduction arrangement.
‘‘(B) REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION.—For purposes of this
paragraph, the term ‘required contribution’ means—
‘‘(i) in the case of an individual eligible to purchase minimum essential coverage consisting of coverage through an eligible-employer-sponsored plan, the
portion of the annual premium which would be paid
by the individual (without regard to whether paid
through salary reduction or otherwise) for self-only
coverage, or
‘‘(ii) in the case of an individual eligible only to
purchase minimum essential coverage described in
subsection (f)(1)(C), the annual premium for the lowest
cost bronze plan available in the individual market
through the Exchange in the State in the rating area
in which the individual resides (without regard to
whether the individual purchased a qualified health
plan through the Exchange), reduced by the amount of
the credit allowable under section 36B for the taxable
year (determined as if the individual was covered by
a qualified health plan offered through the Exchange
for the entire taxable year).
‘‘(C) SPECIAL RULES FOR INDIVIDUALS RELATED TO EMPLOYEES.—øReplaced by section 10106(d)¿ For purposes of
subparagraph (B)(i), if an applicable individual is eligible
for minimum essential coverage through an employer by
reason of a relationship to an employee, the determination
under subparagraph (A) shall be made by reference to required contribution of the employee.
‘‘(D) INDEXING.—In the case of plan years beginning in
any calendar year after 2014, subparagraph (A) shall be
applied by substituting for ‘8 percent’ the percentage the
Secretary of Health and Human Services determines reflects the excess of the rate of premium growth between
the preceding calendar year and 2013 over the rate of income growth for such period.
‘‘(2) TAXPAYERS WITH INCOME BELOW FILING THRESHOLD.—
øAs revised by section 1002(b)(2) of HCERA¿ Any applicable individual for any month during a calendar year if the individual’s household income for the taxable year described in section
1412(b)(1)(B) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
is less than the amount of gross income specified in section
6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘‘(3) MEMBERS OF INDIAN TRIBES.—Any applicable individual for any month during which the individual is a member
of an Indian tribe (as defined in section 45A(c)(6)).
‘‘(4) MONTHS DURING SHORT COVERAGE GAPS.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Any month the last day of which
occurred during a period in which the applicable individual
was not covered by minimum essential coverage for a continuous period of less than 3 months.
‘‘(B) SPECIAL RULES.—For purposes of applying this
paragraph—
‘‘(i) the length of a continuous period shall be determined without regard to the calendar years in
which months in such period occur,
‘‘(ii) if a continuous period is greater than the period allowed under subparagraph (A), no exception
shall be provided under this paragraph for any month
in the period, and‘‘(iii) if there is more than 1 continuous period described in subparagraph (A) covering months in a calendar year, the exception provided by this paragraph
shall only apply to months in the first of such periods.
The Secretary shall prescribe rules for the collection of the
penalty imposed by this section in cases where continuous
periods include months in more than 1 taxable year.
‘‘(5) HARDSHIPS.—Any applicable individual who for any
month is determined by the Secretary of Health and Human
Services under section 1311(d)(4)(H) to have suffered a hardship with respect to the capability to obtain coverage under a
qualified health plan.
‘‘(f) MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.—For purposes of this section—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘minimum essential coverage’
means any of the following:
‘‘(A) GOVERNMENT SPONSORED PROGRAMS.—Coverage
under—
‘‘(i) the Medicare program under part A of title
XVIII of the Social Security Act,
‘‘(ii) the Medicaid program under title XIX of the
Social Security Act,
‘‘(iii) the CHIP program under title XXI of the Social Security Act,
‘‘(iv) the TRICARE for Life program,
‘‘(v) the veteran’s health care program under chapter 17 of title 38, United States Code, or
‘‘(vi) a health plan under section 2504(e) of title
22, United States Code (relating to Peace Corps volunteers).
‘‘(B) EMPLOYER-SPONSORED PLAN.—Coverage under an
eligible employer-sponsored plan.
‘‘(C) PLANS IN THE INDIVIDUAL MARKET.—Coverage
under a health plan offered in the individual market within a State.
‘‘(D) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH PLAN.—Coverage under
a grandfathered health plan.
‘‘(E) OTHER COVERAGE.—Such other health benefits
coverage, such as a State health benefits risk pool, as the
Secretary of Health and Human Services, in coordination
with the Secretary, recognizes for purposes of this subsection.
‘‘(2) ELIGIBLE EMPLOYER-SPONSORED PLAN.—The term ‘eligible employer-sponsored plan’ means, with respect to any employee, a group health plan or group health insurance coverage
offered by an employer to the employee which is—
‘‘(A) a governmental plan (within the meaning of section 2791(d)(8) of the Public Health Service Act), or
‘‘(B) any other plan or coverage offered in the small or
large group market within a State.
Such term shall include a grandfathered health plan described
in paragraph (1)(D) offered in a group market.
‘‘(3) EXCEPTED BENEFITS NOT TREATED AS MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.—The term ‘minimum essential coverage’ shall
VerDate 0ct 09 2002 13:03 Jun 09, 2010 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00150 Fmt 9001 Sfmt 6601 F:\P11\NHI\COMP
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
or like germany, or switzerland, or japan, or hong kong...need i go on, ronbot kiddo? or should we start talking about how overwhelmingly satisfied massachusetts' residents are with their health care?
Massachusetts, a US state that passed individual mandates has the highest healthcare costs in the country

Success?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
All of this nonsense about you wanting people to read the bill and you haven't even read it, you just parrot what Lawrence says.

actually, i'm parroting the joint committee on taxation, not o'donnell.

i merely knew what the penalty was via o'donnell.

if you can find me parroting o'donnell anywhere in this thread, i'll send you a free ounce, ronbot kiddo.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Want to stop whining now


"Beginning in 2014, most individuals will be required to maintain minimum
essential coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $350 in 2015, $750 in 2016 and indexed thereafter"

From the cover summary ^^^



Sec. 1501 PPACA (Consolidated) 146

‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The amount of the penalty imposed by
this section on any taxpayer for any taxable year with respect
to failures described in subsection (b)(1) shall be equal to the
lesser of—

‘‘(A) the sum of the monthly penalty amounts determined under paragraph (2) for months in the taxable year
during which 1 or more such failures occurred, or

‘‘(B) an amount equal to the national average premium
for qualified health plans which have a bronze level of coverage, provide coverage for the applicable family size involved, and are offered through Exchanges for plan years
beginning in the calendar year with or within which the
taxable year ends.

‘‘(2) MONTHLY PENALTY AMOUNTS.—For purposes of paragraph (1)(A), the monthly penalty amount with respect to any
taxpayer for any month during which any failure described in
subsection (b)(1) occurred is an amount equal to
1⁄12 of the greater of the following amounts:

‘‘(A) FLAT DOLLAR AMOUNT.—An amount equal to the
lesser of—
‘‘(i) the sum of the applicable dollar amounts for
all individuals with respect to whom such failure occurred during such month, or
‘‘(ii) 300 percent of the applicable dollar amount
(determined without regard to paragraph (3)(C)) for
the calendar year with or within which the taxable
year ends.

‘‘(B) PERCENTAGE OF INCOME.—øAs revised by section
1002(a)(1) of HCERA¿ An amount equal to the following
percentage of the excess of the taxpayer’s household income for the taxable year over the amount of gross income
specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer
for the taxable year:
‘‘(i) 1.0 percent for taxable years beginning in
2014.
‘‘(ii) 2.0 percent for taxable years beginning in
2015.
‘‘(iii) 2.5 percent for taxable years beginning after
2015.

‘‘(3) APPLICABLE DOLLAR AMOUNT.—øAs revised by section
10106(b)(3) and by section 1002(a)(2) of HCERA¿ For purposes
of paragraph (1)—

‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) and (C), the applicable dollar amount is $695.

‘‘(B) PHASE IN.—The applicable dollar amount is $95
for 2014 and $325 for 2015.


‘‘(C) SPECIAL RULE FOR INDIVIDUALS UNDER AGE 18.—
If an applicable individual has not attained the age of 18
as of the beginning of a month, the applicable dollar
amount with respect to such individual for the month shall
be equal to one-half of the applicable dollar amount for the
calendar year in which the month occurs.

‘‘(D) INDEXING OF AMOUNT.—In the case of any calendar year beginning after 2016, the applicable dollar
HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

LAWRENCE IS A LYING LIAR AND YOU BELIEVED HIM AND REPEATED WHAT HE SAID.

You are such a failure I am starting to feel bad for you.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Massachusetts, a US state that passed individual mandates has the highest healthcare costs in the country

Success?
a single stat does not an evaluation allow, get some real metrics that tell the whole story, including who has better care.

mississippi uses very few federal dollars, but how is their care? how many citizens uninsured?

give us the full picture, ronbot kiddo.
 

budlover13

King Tut
you were the one who brought up debtor's prison, blame yourself for the topic switching.

hint: there is no penalty for non-payment. it's one of the best kept secrets about the bill. if you watched o'donnell you would know this.

The Joint Committee on Taxation's states:
The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.


But again, what happens when one ignores a court summons?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

LAWRENCE IS A LYING LIAR AND YOU BELIEVED HIM AND REPEATED WHAT HE SAID.

You are such a failure I am starting to feel bad for you.
what are you blathering about? that says nothing about what the penalty for not paying the fine is, ronbot kiddo.

like i said, if you can find me repeating o'donnell at any point in this thread, you win a free ounce.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
a single stat does not an evaluation allow, get some real metrics that tell the whole story, including who has better care.

mississippi uses very few federal dollars, but how is their care?

give us the full picture, ronbot kiddo.
The full story is that Obamacare mimics Romneycare, which is an ever increasing failure.
 

budlover13

King Tut
what are you blathering about? that says nothing about what the penalty for not paying the fine is, ronbot kiddo.

like i said, if you can find me repeating o'donnell at any point in this thread, you win a free ounce.
Can i just meet up with you and exchange ounces?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
So then how is said "mandate" enforced? If there is no consequence for ignoring a mandate, then is it a mandate?
that's what makes it one of the best kept secrets about the bill.

the hope is that people do it because it's the law, which many will do.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
so you're not going to give us a full picture, you're just going to mouth fart your opinion all day.

not surprising for a ronbot kiddo.
[individual mandates= increased adverse selection + increased moral hazard + increased oversight costs + increased premium costs + possibility of shortages -freedom / failure]
 
Top