368 watt CFL veg cab/600 watt HPS flower cab perpetual journal

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
ok im starting to get pissy. after modding the cabs the flower cab stays at 79 steady, but it seems like the claw is worsening! what the hell!?!?

the veg cab stays right around 68. its at 66 right now cause it turns on at 7am. but everything in there seems to be flourishing...although i guess i couldnt tell if there was some subtle deficiency of some kind...no idea what to look for.

anyways anyone have any ideas about what is causing this? is it bad? the plant LOOKS fine otherwise...i feed enough that a fair amount runs off, so it should be flushing it to proper ph and whatnot right? grrr
 

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
ok im starting to get pissy. after modding the cabs the flower cab stays at 79 steady, but it seems like the claw is worsening! what the hell!?!?

the veg cab stays right around 68. its at 66 right now cause it turns on at 7am. but everything in there seems to be flourishing...although i guess i couldnt tell if there was some subtle deficiency of some kind...no idea what to look for.

anyways anyone have any ideas about what is causing this? is it bad? the plant LOOKS fine otherwise...i feed enough that a fair amount runs off, so it should be flushing it to proper ph and whatnot right? grrr
I'm guessing too much water, or not enough circulation with fans....
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
ok im starting to get pissy. after modding the cabs the flower cab stays at 79 steady, but it seems like the claw is worsening! what the hell!?!?

the veg cab stays right around 68. its at 66 right now cause it turns on at 7am. but everything in there seems to be flourishing...although i guess i couldnt tell if there was some subtle deficiency of some kind...no idea what to look for.

anyways anyone have any ideas about what is causing this? is it bad? the plant LOOKS fine otherwise...i feed enough that a fair amount runs off, so it should be flushing it to proper ph and whatnot right? grrr
nothing changes overnight :)
 

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
30 percent humidity and 79 degrees. tons of air exchange. not blowing right on the plants. ph cant be too wrong as adding the salt based nutes to water adjusts its ph to the proper level...

my current guess is that the pots they are in are too small. 1.5 gallon or so. could this be it? i dont overwater. i wait until the plant can easily be picked up in one hand. i.e. completely dry.
 

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
30 percent humidity and 79 degrees. tons of air exchange. not blowing right on the plants. ph cant be too wrong as adding the salt based nutes to water adjusts its ph to the proper level...

my current guess is that the pots they are in are too small. 1.5 gallon or so. could this be it? i dont overwater. i wait until the plant can easily be picked up in one hand. i.e. completely dry.
you need a fan blowing on the plants now, sorry, i mean, i think you should ;) it can help with transpiration (sweating) maybe the leaves are holding to much because there isn't enough air passing over the leaves surface, that will help the air circulate further, and will prevent 'stale' air around the plant. i noticed a huuge improvement when i added 2 fans to my grow, at first when they are young, they dont like too much wind, but as they get older and tougher, i believe they can handle a gail!! think of outside, it can be windy all the time in some areas, it will also help with making stronger stems.
I say this, only because my theory in thinking is if you only have an air exchange happening between an extraction fan and an intake, the air is only circulating one way, and there will be 'dry' spots, and inconsistency....

hope that helps, i'm still learning, but do all my research based on logic and pictured help from others :)
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
get em in bigger pots, wont hurt thats for sure, mix in some garden lime with the new soil that should correct any PH issues that might be around. (lime buffers the soil to about 7.0)
 

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
i like this idea. might could. need more pro mix though. ugh. lol. i got 90 dollars of it for my garden! 9 68L bins...

flowa there are 3 fans in my flower cab. one duct fan pullin thru the hood, which is a tube, one duct fan pullin out the cab, 6 four inch intake holes, and one high velocity fan on the floor next to one of the intakes. i should instead of pointing the fan up towards the light to move air directly up (pointing at the hood disrupts the airflow to hopefully eliminate said dry spots or inconsistencies, lol hopefully) point this fan directly at the plants? lol i will def do this if u think it will help! i suppose i could get another of these fans, i like them - made of all metal and is pretty powerful...
 

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
i like this idea. might could. need more pro mix though. ugh. lol. i got 90 dollars of it for my garden! 9 68L bins...

flowa there are 3 fans in my flower cab. one duct fan pullin thru the hood, which is a tube, one duct fan pullin out the cab, 6 four inch intake holes, and one high velocity fan on the floor next to one of the intakes. i should instead of pointing the fan up towards the light to move air directly up (pointing at the hood disrupts the airflow to hopefully eliminate said dry spots or inconsistencies, lol hopefully) point this fan directly at the plants? lol i will def do this if u think it will help! i suppose i could get another of these fans, i like them - made of all metal and is pretty powerful...
the more air circulating the better :) and having those vents pumping in fresh air is ideal , good work, the plant won't get wind burn at this stage, you can blow a gail ;)

i myself had slight claw on the tips of my leaves last night, pumped the fans up to full speed, and the vigor improved maybe 20%, so i'm not saying it's the only thing that will help, but it can't hurt either. it's easy to have dry/stale spots in an enclosed area, if you imagine being outside in a corner somewhere, you will notice the wind will usually only go a certain direction, and if you have fans in 1 particular location, you may notice differences here and there...i alternate during veg, and turn the plant around now and then, there are soo many variables with growing indoors, but if you have the basics you will be fine
 

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
welp. after lengthy discussions with myself, the internet, and the local hydro guy, i am and have been overfeeding. and feeding crap too. now i knew that, but didnt think it would be so...idk subtle. also havent checked the waters pH but its a solid bet that the water is around 7. WHO KNOWS what pH my nutes turn the water...so all my claw is from some sort of feeding problem. time to pick up real nutrients. the local hydro shop has, well everything. im thinking of just going with the classic fox farm loadout. there are a couple brands they carry that are completely organic as well, but im not sold on buying liquid organics when it sounds like i could make my own. and other reasons, but whatever. i will be buying nutes today or tomorrow, soon. feeding time soon. going to start at recommended dosage for the stage they are at, both in flower and in veg cause they do need food but the right kind of food, dont want to strip the soil of nutes by doing a serious water only with lots of runoff, although maybe i WILL do that let them dry half a day, then feed with the correct amount of correct nutes...at the correct pH as well. going to have to get some pH up and down too...damn...looking at 50 for the 3 pack of FF nutes and 12 each for pH up and down...that seem reasonable to everyone?

i took 4 clones last night. trimmed off my mother, which means these 4 clones are the first to come from a plant thats in the vegetative stage of growth. meaning faster rooting. hopefully. they are in a jiffy humidity dome in 2" rockwool cubes, within the 2by cab. there are 8 - 23 watt cfls in there right now. this is probably too much yes? need one or 2 bulbs for clones? would LOVE SOME CLARIFICATION HERE. i put more bulbs on actually to raise the temp in there, down around 68 or so with only 2 bulbs running, is this ok?

anyways i am researching/planning how i will be doing hydro. i have come up with a hybrid aeroponics/bubbleponics/dwc plan that i am hoping will work. i plan to start with 3 gallon black buckets with the larger sized net pots. what i will do is this: i will plant the rooted clone in hydroton in the net pot, fill the bucket to maybe quarter to half an inch above the level of the bottom of the net pot, and then run an airstone down thru the hydroton and net pot so i dont have to drill any holes and run the airstone all the time. this way the system is modular and i can add to it as i need to. also, i will have 5 gallon buckets in the flower cab to transfer the net pot over to when its time to flower. so the idea is you check the nutrient solution's pH and ppms and top it off as needed while slowly letting the level of the nutrient solution in the bucket decrease as the root mass increases. i believe this is a hybrid bubbleponics/hempys style hydro. it should be relatively cheap, easy, and simple. which is a GREAT way to start something you know nothing about. lol. anyways the roots should be able to be immersed completely in the solution if the solution is extremely aerated. i hear that you dont necessarily want to reach supersaturation levels, but somewhere approaching, thats what the bubbleponics website says about their research and studies have shown...

excited to try it out. MORE excited about my plants coming back to full vigorous health. new nutes, here i come!
 

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
my thoughts on lighting for clones, is use minimal really, as you don't want them to be stretchy clones, i think 2 lights would be plenty for 4 clones....clones are easily happy with minimal lighting in my experience....If you are worried about temps, get a little cheap heating pad for underneath, the roots will love it i grew my clones in a cold bedroom under a flouro without any dome :) they all were 100% perfect 8 out of 8 from 1 plant, no heating pad, nothing. just a bed of perlite and a desk lamp :)
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
heres my thoughts, ifirst off the PH up and down will be needed for the hydro but not the soil grows, wasted money if your dumping it into soil.

second, organic nutrients (generally) do not have much for available nutrition for the plants, if you want to grow with organic nutes (true organic nutes) then you will need to develop a good ecosystem in your soil to break down the organic matter into something the plants can use. just a FYI before you go dumping a ton of money opn organic nutrients and find them not doing what you expect.

from what i understand the fox farm trio is pretty decent, not sure if they are a soil or hydrpo nute and really dont know enough obout organic hydro to put my 2¢ in there.

good luck cant wait to see them
 

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
good call matty-oh! just did a bunch of research on pro mix. probably dont have to worry about the pH. more just what im feeding. fox farm is NOT organic although it has organics added, but as you mentioned this doesnt necessarily do all that much without the proper enzymes and bios and whatnot...which i do NOT have.

WILL be trying out hydro soon as these clones root. any ideas when they should be transplanted into their net pot/buckets? bout an inch of taproot showing? bout a week? lol...jus looking for generals..
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
first of all clones don't have a taproot ( don't think) that's a seed.

i would just wait until the rock wool cube is nice and full of roots then give it a go.
 

monster.green.thumb

Well-Known Member
allright guys heres the latest calamity. i picked up the fox farm trio. it says to feed every other watering. reading things on the innerwebs that say, well you know everything. i have now flushed all the plants. i am thinking i will let them go through what didnt wash out, and then start them on nutes next time, at a reduced dosage. willing to take suggestions lol. the ladies look nice and green, just wicked curling.
 

roofwayne

Well-Known Member
Always start with less and see how it goes. It easier to add more nutes, than to get them out after. That is what I do. Plants look good!!:bigjoint:...rw
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Wait, what is your question? Start nutes now or wait till next time? Probably doesn't matter too much but I would advise against re-wetting the soil if it is already drenched from your flush. With bottled lines I would suggest following the provided feed schedule, but like roof said start on the lower side and build up versus the other way around.
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
yeah man just let em be for a bit, the claw is "supposedly" from over ferting so just let em go a week, use up them nutes in soil then give em a 1/4 str feeding, watch for lime green leaves.
 
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