care to go into detail as to why such strains are crap? i know GHS has a bad rep from the jump. Only reason why i consider them is because some of their strains do get great reviews (ie. SSH, SLH).
GHS Super Silver Haze is running on past glory from when it was the original from back when Scott Blakey (AKA Shantibaba) was part owner and Nevil was part owner in the Green House Seeds Coffee House and whatever they bred was marketed under the Green House Seeds name. But when Shantibaba sold out and left to open Mr. Nice Seeds he took his plants, his breeding stable, his genetics with him. Later when Nevil also got fed up with Arjan Nevil did the same. At that point Arjan had next to nothing. No breeders, no breeding stable worth mentioning. He, along with Franco, went on to make knockoffs and F2 versions of the famous strains that GHS no longer had ... but Arjan tries to market them as not only being the true originals but also that only Green House Seeds has them.
So GHS Super Silver Haze is not genetically the same as the Super Silver Haze that won the Cannabis Cup in 97, 98 and 99.
Super Lemon Haze is known to be hermie prone. Some also claim that is is a feminized F2 version of another breeder, whose name eludes me at the moment.
Im pretty surprised you had bad things to say about nirvana. care to explain? i ask because ive heard way more good reviews about nirvana than GHS. Im aware nirvana (and GHS) doesnt have the original genetics to many of the strains they sell (ie. SLH, SSH, white rhino, NL, super skunk etc) but ive heard good things none-the-less.
Nirvana has mostly knockoffs and F2s with a few crosses it made itself. Regardless of the breeder, if you want the original you have to go to the original breeder (or of course a seedbank that sells that breeder's gear) because one breeder does not supply another with seeds. If it's not from the original breeder of a strain, it's a fake a phoney a fugazi a knockoff or an F2.
Nirvana is what I call the AOL of breeders. Like how so many people new to the internet flock to AOL because it is so widely known, the same thing happens with new/newer growers. The Nirvana name is widely known and people wrongly assume that is due to quality. So all the newbies who don't know the first thing about genetics or about which breeders are order what they think is quality, but is actually about equal in quality to the cheap Chinese made stuff that Wal-Mart sells.
One problem is they use outside contractors to make their beans. It is not like only Nirvana does it, but their quality control over what is made is very low. An outside contractor making two types of beans, one they are paid more for, will mix in some of the beans they will be paid less for with the ones they are paid more for so they are paid more overall. Over the years, between people I have known, and people online I have seen cases where from one or two packs of beans there were plants that were so totally different, from seedlings to the high they gave, that it could not be explained away as being different phenotypes.
While I have not heard of it happening for about two years Nirvana has threatened to rat out unsatisfied customers to their local law if the unsatisfied customer did not stop complaining. It happened to one person I know, it happened about two years ago to a member here and I have read about it happening to a number of members of other grow sites.
I have mentioned this here before and the loyal Nirvana customers said it was bull. The last time I mentioned it someone contacted Nirvana and asked if it was true and was told that it was true but the employee who was doing it no longer works for them and that Nirvana was shocked to hear that people are still upset about it. But who would not be upset if you order beans and they never arrive or the order is completely wrong and when you complain you are told that they have your personal information and if you don't drop it they will send it to your local cop shop. A breeder, or an employee of a breeder, threatening to rat a grower out to the law is not forgivable and not something to be taken lightly regardless of what claims the breeder might later make. That is the lowest possible thing a seed company could ever do all so they could rip someone off for the price of an order that might never have been sent, was sent but lost or was sent but was a totally wrong order.
There is perception and there is reality and often times perception, which can be highly incorrect, will outweigh reality.
Another reason Nirvava is used by so many and is loved by so many it in part it's pricing. People who never grew before or grew from mid-level bagseed many times never experienced professional breeder genetics. They do not know genetics, they see a certain strain priced at say $100.00 for 5 seeds and then they see the same stain name from Nirvana for far, FAR less. They are newbies, they do not know that while the strains carry the same name they are genetically different. They think it is like finding a Sony TV someplace for $100.00 less than the same Sony from another store. They think they lucked into a great deal, so they order the knockoff or F2 for way less than the price of the original genetics, so they think they got a super deal on the genetically exact same strain.
They grow it and while it is not top notch it is still better than the low to mid-grade commercial they are used to smoking so that further reinforces their belief that they did get the original genetic and got them at bargain basement prices, or if not the originals they got something almost as good and well worth the price. They are pleased with what they received and see no reason to pay twice as much, three times as much or four or more times as much. They cannot imagine that others will be so much better that it will justify the increase in price, so they stick with Wal-Mart quality genetics.
An example of perception and reality differing, but using a different breeder, is a while back I suggested someone purchase Mr. Nice strains. Scott Blakey/Shantibaba along with Neville have produced some of the greatest most famous stains of all time. There are no better breeders in the world and many breeders are not worthy to breath the same air as Shantibaba and Nevil. I received a reply about my suggestion where the person said Mr. Nice Seeds sucks and is a crummy seed company because they do not even know how to make feminized seeds.
Shantibaba knows how to make feminized seeds, but he also knows that feminizing seeds makes them hermie prone and he is all about quality, so he doesn't make them. Be the person responding held the inaccurate perception that feminized seeds are best and that it takes a better more skilled breeder to make feminized seeds than regular seeds so, to him, that meant Shantibaba is a crummy unskilled breeder.
That is an example of how inaccurate perception outweighs reality. That's why some people believe that Nirvana is great and why some believe that Green House Seeds is great and why any number of other low to mid-grade breeders are seen by some as being great. And at the same time some of the most skilled breeders are not perceived by many as being top breeders with true skills.
Another misconception is that newer strains are always better than older strains, that anything newer has to be an improvement over anything older. It led to what I call 'The Flavor of the Month Club' with it's 'Flavor of the Month Strain.'
Example: When Green House Seeds released The Church this site, and several others, were all abuzz over it. Most everyone wanted it, many grew it, there was thread after thread dedicated to The Church grows. When people smoked it they went all Lady Gaga over it and made it out to be the closest thing to The Holy Grail yet.
For what you get in return for what you pay for The Church it is not a bad value. It is easy to grow and it produces fairly well and it is average or slightly better than average in quality. But because it was a new release, and only because it was a new release, it became a Flavor of the Month Club Strain and it sold like hotcakes. But it is nothing like it was portrayed as being by members of The Flavor of the Month Club.
A breeder doesn't really have to be all that good to do well as a breeder. If they pick a catchy name and if they market themselves well and advertise in a few good locations, as long as their gear is decent or slightly better people will buy it. Some might be disappointed enough to not buy it again, but others will think it's the cat's meow and then there is always the tsunami of newbies that hits almost daily and you will get a portion of them, even if only a small portion.
A relatively small number of growers actually know true quality when it comes to breeders and strains so what is often called quality is not called quality because it earned the right to be called quality. Instead the descriptive word quality was simply arbitrarily attributed to it because someone or some people did not know any better or needed to feel that the penny sale genetics they purchase is quality just as the hundred dollar or several hundred dollar genetics they cannot afford is. They cannot accept that they purchase crap, their egos will not allow them to do so. So they claim it is quality and then they tell others it's quality and say buy it too, you won't be disappointed. But they tell others that because they want others to validate their purchases by purchasing from the same breeder, plus they don't want someone else enjoying something they cannot afford.
As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
