Could Kelp extracts be a waste of money?

[legallyflying]

Here is a comprehensive discussion of kelp and the mechanisms behind it's benefits: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/seaweed.html

Feel free to ignore it but to be honest, most of the info is stacking up in favor of kelp. Especially the micrOnutrient content which is critical to maintain the ionic processes of photosynthesis

 

[Afka]

Get kelp from sea.
Wash.
Dry, crush and package or apply immediately to garden.
If you must, purchase powdered or liquid kelp. No fancy brews, no extras, just kelp. Use it for potassium, micronutrients and organic matter. Foliarly to correct a deficiency.

The end.

 

[Uncle Ben]

......Where do you think the nitrogen in soil comes from?

If you don't know, sure as hell aint gonna tell you. Certainly doesn't come from the sea.

Boils down to this....

If you think Kelp or some other snake oil is crucial to growing plants, then you don't know squat about plant culture.

UB

 

[gudkarma]

hmmmm...

kelp has a NPK of about 1-0-8

kelp is known to contain 70 trace minerals & micronuterients useful to gardeners.

kelp is a known bioactivator.

kelp is a sustainable souce of fertilizer.

& my favorite, kelp contains enzymes & growth hormones. kelp has very high amounts of the particular hormone, cytokinin, which are responsible for cell division, cell enlargement, differentiation of cells, development of chloroplasts as well as a delay in aging

damn UB you stooooopid arrogant & there is plenty of research on kelp & gardening.

 

[legallyflying]

If you don't know, sure as hell aint gonna tell you. Certainly doesn't come from the sea.

Boils down to this....

If you think Kelp or some other snake oil is crucial to growing plants, then you don't know squat about plant culture.

UB

nice selective quote. I guess at this point you can't admit that kelp actually DOES contain nutrients for plant growth..something you said it did not. And actually, most of the initial nutrient content in the soil DID come from the sea in the form of decomposing diatoms, feces, and to a smaller degree, plant matter.

I used to think that you knew your shit but you were just a cantankerous old man. It is apparent to me know that you are still a cantankerous old man, but also one that is pig headed enough not to admit when he is wrong.

 

[Uncle Ben]

nice selective quote. I guess at this point you can't admit that kelp actually DOES contain nutrients for plant growth..something you said it did not. And actually, most of the initial nutrient content in the soil DID come from the sea in the form of decomposing diatoms, feces, and to a smaller degree, plant matter.

I used to think that you knew your shit but you were just a cantankerous old man. It is apparent to me know that you are still a cantankerous old man, but also one that is pig headed enough not to admit when he is wrong.

Hey shit-fer-brains, I said (or meant) kelp does not naturally contain enough NPK, in the proper chemical salt form, to provide plant nutrition. That was after you made this ridiculous statement regarding some crap anecdotal evidence - "Anyways, all he ever uses to fertilize his plants is foliar application of kelp."

It's another additive for MJ nerds and greenies like yourself, including the partisan alternative greenie website you linked me to. For starts, you nor any one posting to this website has a clue as to the amounts or the salts form the elements found in kelp extracts or in. Strontium nitrate? I think not. You don't have any way of measuring the effects, if any, so as usual the vendor is relying on your need for feel-good placebos to make a sale (see my sig).

If you FEEL that your plants need a dose of barium, lead, cadmium, strontium, sodium and such then knock yourself out.

And since we're spewing sticks and stones, you're just another TrollItUp gullible marijuana nerdy kid who will believe just anything posted in these forums.

UB

 

[legallyflying]

LOL, you better go back to google old man. Strontium is a rare earth mineral that actually ignites in the presence of oxygen. Strontium nitrate? There is no fucking stontium nitrate in kelp? Where did you even get led down that road? Those nitrate forms are chemically produced and used in fireworks if memory serves me correctly. Yeah, I took organic chemistry, 2 years of it.

But anyways.. you made your point clear, which is always your point.. Additives have no place in the garden. That's fine, that's your view of things, others have had other experience.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Hey shit-fer-brains, I said (or meant) kelp does not naturally contain enough NPK, in the proper chemical salt form, to provide plant nutrition. That was after you made this ridiculous statement regarding some crap anecdotal evidence - "Anyways, all he ever uses to fertilize his plants is foliar application of kelp."

It's another additive for MJ nerds and greenies like yourself, including the partisan alternative greenie website you linked me to. For starts, you nor any one posting to this website has a clue as to the amounts or the salts form the elements found in kelp extracts or in. Strontium nitrate? I think not. You don't have any way of measuring the effects, if any, so as usual the vendor is relying on your need for feel-good placebos to make a sale (see my sig).

If you FEEL that your plants need a dose of barium, lead, cadmium, strontium, sodium and such then knock yourself out.

And since we're spewing sticks and stones, you're just another TrollItUp gullible marijuana nerdy kid who will believe just anything posted in these forums.

UB

Dude, it helps . . . . . . we all know that

and it never comes down to one nutrient to make or break your set up, its always been the combined nutrients, whether they are sown in your soil or top feet , or diluted into solutions

if your going to shit over peoples sources I think you should provide your own evidence or facts about kelp . . . .. . . that means actually explaining what "proper chemical salt form is" i love how poeple attack the idea and their thoughts but the person but can never say anything constructive to convey their point

barium, lead, cadmium, strontium, sodium?

 

[legallyflying]

Uncle Ben never provides links to support his point of view.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

If you don't know, sure as hell aint gonna tell you. Certainly doesn't come from the sea.

Boils down to this....

If you think Kelp or some other snake oil is crucial to growing plants, then you don't know squat about plant culture.

UB

he is rigth, by the way

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]For the EU as a whole, the main source of nitrogen input to agricultural land is mineral fertilizer, with livestock manure a close second.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/envir/report/en/nitro_en/report.htm

doesnt change the fact that kelp floating around in the sea is a source of micro nutrients and minerals and also a great source of hormones and other bennies that aid in the growth and structure and potency of MJ , its no snake oil, First Nation peoples have been usign it for centuries as a fertilizer so have most people near the ocean in the rest of the world, you can grow WEED in a ditch with tire dust. doesnt mean we shouldnt give our ladies the best possible outcome and chance

of course it doesnt need it, as a stand alone fert, duh, but if you have supper amended soils and just use a very good kelp

they are trying to make the product better stop trying to fucking up our WEED
[/FONT]

 

[Uncle Ben]

Are they a salt? Of course they are, if they indeed exist as touted. What form, chemically, are the elements in and what are the percentages required for proper nutrition?

 

[Uncle Ben]

Speaking of other's experiences.....the only credibility I can give to "other's experiences" is a scientific study done by a non partisan, not for profit organization like a university.

Uncle Ben never provides links to support his point of view.

That's a lie. Let's just go back to the one you posted part of that I quote in a previous post (are you blind too?) and read what the good Doc has to say, eh?

The Myth of Curative Kelp:
"Seaweed extracts reduce disease, improve production, and increase stress resistance in landscape plants"

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Seaweed%20extracts.pdf

4) Fruit size, yield and/or quality
Many studies have examined SE efficacy in improving fruit production. The most positive results appear to be in citrus production, where some trials revealed slight increases in fruit yield. Other work on oranges reported no effect on either sprouting or fruit set, however. Peaches gained firmness in response to one SE product, but neither they nor apricots exhibited any response to another SE product. Some apple varieties developed better fruit color after SE treatment, but none of the tested varieties showed improvements in yield, weight, or mineral composition. Likewise, SE treatment had no effect on grain
yield in wheat, persimmon production, strawberry or pepper yields, pear fruit set, or tomato yield or quality.

Kinda iffy, ya reckon?

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Are they a salt? Of course they are, if they indeed exist as touted. What form, chemically, are the elements in and what are the percentages required for proper nutrition?

once agian you are very vague, if you know technical or chemical data that can easily be referenced go ahead and throw down?

WHAT DOES "THEY" mean , the subject of your statement is vague please elaborate

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

That's a lie. Let's just go back to the one you posted and read what the good Doc has to say, eh?

The Myth of Curative Kelp:
"Seaweed extracts reduce disease, improve production, and increase stress resistance in landscape plants"

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Seaweed%20extracts.pdf



Kinda iffy, ya reckon?

ok first of all the author hype-anted her name . .. . . .. . and is a associate professor

teachers teach cause they cant do, at least the majority . . .

also she shows her conclusions with topic lines like " THE BOTTOM LINE" provides zero sources and "I'm trained as a woody plant physiologist and I apply this knowledge to understanding how trees and shrubs function in urban environments." her words

not fruiting plants that are seasonal and are to be smoked not eaten, dude a little word called CONTEXt will help your credibility

if your going to site sources you should know them

 

[Uncle Ben]

once agian you are very vague, if you know technical or chemical data that can easily be referenced go ahead and throw down?

WHAT DOES "THEY" mean , the subject of your statement is vague please elaborate

Is stupidity just way too common in this forum? The topic of this discussion is the active ingredients commonly termed "elements", and referred by me as "they".

Sheesh, fuckin' tards!!!!!!!

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

Usually cold processed, liquid kelp will have higher levels of growth hormones
than extracts. Some may also be enzymatically digested, making the growth
hormones even more available to the plants.

do you know what hormones do within a cell or to specific cells or in general, im sure you do, and it took me five min to find info on the benifits of kelp

and the chemical compounats of kelp help enable and encourage, development, growth, nutirent uptake and it should be obvious to anyone that you need more than just kelp extract thats why they call it an additive

that being said i mainly use it for root development, Rhizotonic is exspensive but works great. . .

 

[legallyflying]

Hey Sam, you bring up a good point on the credibility of MY initial link. I was suspect at first as the author represents the docuemnt as a summary of findings, yet has no literature cited section. I checked her wesite and she also has a couple other papers that I find a little hard to swallow, chiefly the caim that compost tea does not reduce root diease, anyone using compost tea in DWC can tell you that it does a fantastic job of keeping rot and non-benificial bacteria at bay.

So I googled SE and agriculture. one of the first hits links was a journal articlle that found a positive increase in yield with foliar kelp application, actuallly the more they applied the higher the recorded yield.
here is the link:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0254629908003153

I wouldn't engage Ben, as you can see, he is just resorting to name calling and non-substantiated claims...as is typical,just hit the ignore button.

 

[legallyflying]

Not quite sure which study she was referring to in her "paper" but research did show an inccrease in lettuce and cauliflower crops:
http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/botm.1983.26.10.487

and spinach yield:
http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/botm.1992.35.5.437

and higher levels of chlloraphyl were recorded across many different species after soil application:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v71265414617955w/

and in increase in tissue production in corn:
http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/botm.1991.34.6.469

AND it was found to reduce grey mold by 40%
http://www.publish.csiro.au/?paper=EA98164

helll it even made kiwi fruit grow bigger:
http://www.actahort.org/books/444/444_74.htm

Now how someone can actually read those papers I linked to and then come back and say that it kelp users are just victoms of hydroponic store salesmen or that kelp has no merrits is beyond me, but you just wait....

 

[legallyflying]

So ummm, does that mean your a fan of kelp?

 

[Dankster4Life]

I.................................like.................................................................................................nevermind.