r0m30’s first grow, HP Aero cabinet

[Atomizer]

Rom,
Dont use a solid rockwool cube, cut it into small 3/8" cubes and pack those loosely around the stem in the netpot until its full. Handwater from the top occasionally to keep it damp. I did a side by side with netpots filled with a solid r/w cube, r/w chunks, hydroton and one with no media that used a neoprene collar. The plants with the solid r/w cube were slow as the roots have to push through the cube, it`s hard to judge how wet or dry the cube is too. The hydroton plants are very susceptible to wilting unless you handwater often or set up a drip to prevent it from drying out. The large gaps between pebbles dont help as they increase the evaporative water loss and that in turn causes a local chilling effect on the roots. With no media in the netpot you`ll have no choice but to mist the hell out of them to keep them upright, at least until the roots are big enough to capture sufficient mist. By then, they`ll look just like lp aero roots so its not ideal.
The r/w chunks are much easier to deal with and do a better job all round. If you can do a side by side, you`ll be able see the differences first hand.

 

[r0m30]

Rom,
Dont use a solid rockwool cube, cut it into small 3/8" cubes and pack those loosely around the stem in the netpot until its full. Handwater from the top occasionally to keep it damp. I did a side by side with netpots filled with a solid r/w cube, r/w chunks, hydroton and one with no media that used a neoprene collar. The plants with the solid r/w cube were slow as the roots have to push through the cube, it`s hard to judge how wet or dry the cube is too. The hydroton plants are very susceptible to wilting unless you handwater often or set up a drip to prevent it from drying out. The large gaps between pebbles dont help as they increase the evaporative water loss and that in turn causes a local chilling effect on the roots. With no media in the netpot you`ll have no choice but to mist the hell out of them to keep them upright, at least until the roots are big enough to capture sufficient mist. By then, they`ll look just like lp aero roots so its not ideal.
The r/w chunks are much easier to deal with and do a better job all round. If you can do a side by side, you`ll be able see the differences first hand.

What I did was cut some 1" rockwool cubes into quarters and then halved them depthwise. Then I placed them around the outside of the net pot leaving a space in the center for the stem to slide into. I put a neoprene cover on the top of the net pot to keep the light out, do you leave that off so you can hand water? I'm trying to do a side by side with just neoprene but I think the new light is to much for them when they are fresh cut. I'm going to go back to the brooder until they are over the initial shock.

 

[Atomizer]

Sounds alright as long as the central hole isn`t too big. I put the stem in first, center it in mid air and push dry cubes in around it. The initial watering consists of plain r/o via a 60ml syringe.
You wont need the neoprene if you fill the netpot to the top with r/w chunks, its a bind to remove them without disturbing the plant when you handwater.

 

[r0m30]

Sounds alright as long as the central hole isn`t too big. I put the stem in first, center it in mid air and push dry cubes in around it. The initial watering consists of plain r/o via a 60ml syringe.
You wont need the neoprene if you fill the netpot to the top with r/w chunks, its a bind to remove them without disturbing the plant when you handwater.

So you don't soak them in PH'd water first? What is your misting cycle?

 

[Atomizer]

The r/o ph is around 6 so i dont bother but the type of rockwool might have a bearing. I use cultilene brand which doesnt break up and turn into mush when wet, you can buy it pre-chopped...for a price.
The misting cycle is set to stay below the chamber saturation point, the timing depends on the number of nozzles, tested flowrate and chamber volume. Having said that, in the early stages, you only need sufficient mist to encourage the roots to venture out..the rockwool is providing the wilt protection.
Its difficult to find a good balance if you run without media and rely on mist timing to do both jobs. Overmisting will prevent wilting but you`ll oversaturate the chamber. Maintaining low levels of mist to encourage the roots isnt too useful if the plants are wilting
When it comes to settings, the important thing is to understand what you`re trying to achieve and why, it makes it easier to figure if you`re on the right track or not.

 

[PetFlora]

Hey A! I am cloning this time using a DIY bubbler. I have one clone in Sunleaves Super Starter cubes for 4 days; two others in rw starter cube cut in half inside a small net pot, but the cube is not pushed to the bottom. I have also done this using one layer of small hydroton, which works well to keep moisture close to the tap root, without soaking.

I like your idea of chunks better! It is doing quite well, but I do not know whether the cube will hold up in my HPA (sans accum). I have 5 more clones taken 2 days ago that are soaking in RO with <1% H2O2. They look great. Thinking to split them between SSS cubes and just hanging them inside the bubbler using a neoprene puck. Any thoughts?

 

[r0m30]

The r/o ph is around 6 so i dont bother but the type of rockwool might have a bearing. I use cultilene brand which doesnt break up and turn into mush when wet, you can buy it pre-chopped...for a price.
The misting cycle is set to stay below the chamber saturation point, the timing depends on the number of nozzles, tested flowrate and chamber volume. Having said that, in the early stages, you only need sufficient mist to encourage the roots to venture out..the rockwool is providing the wilt protection.
Its difficult to find a good balance if you run without media and rely on mist timing to do both jobs. Overmisting will prevent wilting but you`ll oversaturate the chamber. Maintaining low levels of mist to encourage the roots isnt too useful if the plants are wilting
When it comes to settings, the important thing is to understand what you`re trying to achieve and why, it makes it easier to figure if you`re on the right track or not.

Ahh, you're not talking about the typical mist 'em until they root cloning. You're using the rockwool to keep them from dying until they can take nutrients in a HPA environment. My side by side is in the cloner, no HPA environment, guess that's not going to work out well.

 

[PetFlora]

FYI: As all my growing lessons, this one was learned the hard way. Let's begin with this: For an expensive timer it sorely lacks a status button so you can check timing for all events.

As most of you know, for several grows I have been struggling with wilted plants every morning, and little to no runoff. This I was blaming on the small DMfit filter clogging with a micro-colony (which it was), but I resolved that last week, by adding the irrigation filter inside the rez, but still awoke to extreme wilted plants. Clearly, the roots were not getting fed during lights off. Checked both filters, they were clean. WTF?

3/4 plants have 'recovered' but the roots are mostly dried out, and totally dry every morning, meaning the roots have lost most of their ability to feed the plants. The promise of HPA was not happening. I salvaged some of the prior crop and moved them to both Air Pots and F & D. Both those methods are doing really well. All 3 methods are under the same lights, so I have been pulling my hair out.

Looking back, I sent my previous MDT 1 back for repair. I never thought to check the on/off light settings, thinking it was automatically 24/7. WRONG!

It occurred to me to review the directions, and there it is: It has 3 different on/off light cycle choices, none of which displays (and again no status button to display/check all events). Well the timer can be set for DAY, NIGHT or 24 HOURS. It was set for DAY, meaning the plants were not getting fed during lights off. BINGO!

This problem severely sets plant growth back. However, most of the wilted plants that I moved to the Air Pot and F & D recovered pretty quickly, so I have my fingers crossed. That said, I will need the space in a couple weeks as I took 7 clones off the large F & D plant.

Hopefully, this is the last of the major HPA issues, that has ruined 2 grows. hth

 

[r0m30]

It’s been two weeks since my last update. Last week I was busy and then this week was “interesting”. I thought I was still seeing nute burn so I lowered the PPM to 350 and almost immediately she started to show me I was wrong by turning her lower leaves yellow So I upped the nutes back up to 415 and went on a hunt to see what deficiency I was misreading. I decided it was probably N so I upped the N (and the Ca because the B part of Jacks is CaN) the roots almost immediately showed new growth and she started to put on some height as well. Murphy was not going to let this go without a fight. Now that she’s growing she started to show another deficiency, it looks like Mg this time. I went back and reread some of the threads on Jacks and found that supplementing with Epsom is common so now I’m doing that and we will see how she is in a few days.
On top of the nute see-saw I woke up Friday to that unique smell of failed electronics, open up the cabinet and only the red LEDs were still working.

Great…. Not…

I had just bought a 90W bloomboss for the cloner so I did a swap out using that for the failed light and put the brooder back in the cloning area. The loss of light with the UFO was amazing it appeared like a lot more than 50% as indicated by the wattage.
I called Haight left a message to inquire about their warranty procedures on their voice mail, about an hour and a half later Kiran from Haight called back. She told me they would ship me a new light that day with a return label for the failed light and then apologized for the problems several times. They shipped the light Friday night and it arrived today so I’m back to full light. I like a company that stands behind their products and is concerned about the customer – Haight is on my recommended list. It’s early but it looks like this light is running cooler, the temperature delta in the cabinet is only 3 degrees with the new light and it was 7-8 with the old light.
I hope that the reduced lighting hasn’t set me back too far, this grow has already taken to long. Now that the lighting is back I tucked and hope that I can flip next week.
Here are a few pics:

The cloner has been running now for 8 days now and I’m a believer in cloning compounds. One of the bare clones is showing great roots and the other is showing about a half dozen nubs. I can’t really see what the rockwool ones are doing but no roots have broken through yet. I misunderstood what Atomizer was saying so I’m not optimistic for their success. I’d like to have this test complete by the time I flip so I can take a few cuttings before I flip the lights and see if they are healthier than my experimental SIP mother.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I wish I had any advice, but I'm at a loss for the nute issue. I suppose it could be something less obvious like need for longer mist times (since you're having to go the non-fuzzy route) or even ph, or your ph meter needing calibrating. Glad to hear the led company is doing right by you, although it would be even better if the light worked properly from the start. Do you have an airstone in the res, or do you figure the act of misting keeps the saturation up enough? If it makes you feel any better, the first grow with a new system is usually tough, but it's a learning curve and the next grow will be a different story

I am trying to not set my expectations too high with my system on it's first run either, but I can't help hoping ...

 

[r0m30]

I wish I had any advice, but I'm at a loss for the nute issue. I suppose it could be something less obvious like need for longer mist times (since you're having to go the non-fuzzy route) or even ph, or your ph meter needing calibrating.

I think I'm working my way towards fixing the nute problem, I don't know why I didn't remember the Epsom, I remembered reading it once I started to re-read the threads on Jacks. Even if I can't get the fuzzies I'm going to try and keep the times low for now, she reacts to the changes withing hours so at least for now it seems to be working OK. I calibrate my PH meter once a month and so far when I test it before I recalibrate it's measured the calibration solution within a few hundredths.

Glad to hear the led company is doing right by you, although it would be even better if the light worked properly from the start.

Yes that's true but in today's world of low cost Chinese imports you pretty much have to expect a certain number of failures. My new camera failed out of the box and Canon is usually known for quality DSLRs. That's why I avoid 90 day electronics warranties and fly by night companies.

Do you have an airstone in the res, or do you figure the act of misting keeps the saturation up enough? If it makes you feel any better, the first grow with a new system is usually tough, but it's a learning curve and the next grow will be a different story

I am trying to not set my expectations too high with my system on it's first run either, but I can't help hoping ...

No airstone, I really don't see it as required if the roots aren't soaking in water unless you get gunk in the res because of how slow the nutes are used, but I'm hoping the bleach will thwart the nasties.

I know first grows are a huge learning curve, doubly so for me as I don't have any gardening experience at all. I too had high hopes, wishing you better luck for sure.

Are you going to get a mist test soon?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I'm hoping the bleach will thwart the nasties.

I wanna shirt with this saying

I don't have much gardening experience other than puting seeds in the ground and watching em grow lol... I did hydro for a year back when I was 16, so I'm not much ahead of you in that respect... I do remember reading having to add mag when I read about yor nutes too...

I did a mist test, but I felt I need to push through the accumulator to get the real idea- but I got enough to know the mist coverage so I could figure out my nozzle placement (they're already in).. My rig is almost done and should be operational by the weekend- will post as it happens..

 

[r0m30]

I wanna shirt with this saying

It would be funny to have a camera to film peoples reactions when they read it.

I did a mist test, but I felt I need to push through the accumulator to get the real idea- but I got enough to know the mist coverage so I could figure out my nozzle placement (they're already in).. My rig is almost done and should be operational by the weekend- will post as it happens..

I saw the mist test with the valve to regulate the pressure but not one with the whole system hooked up. Looking forward to seeing your rig in action!

 

[Trichy Bastard]

It would be funny to have a camera to film peoples reactions when they read it.

I saw the mist test with the valve to regulate the pressure but not one with the whole system hooked up. Looking forward to seeing your rig in action!

Yeah- the control center is sitting on my living room carpet. I need someone to help me carry it outside before I can test it. Trust me, I have used alot of self control to not test it there- but I'm worried if I have a leaky connection what might happen, lol..

 

[r0m30]

I’ve been upping the nutes to try and deal with the deficiencies I’ve been seeing and I think she is doing a lot better. I’m probably overfeeding her at the moment; we shall see. I’m going to start her on flower tomorrow. It will be difficult not to peak in there every few hours.


The cloner:
This is my second cloning test, this time with rooting hormones and a heater. I also tried to follow some of Atomizers advice but totally misunderstood what he was saying.
I got two clones that I could have grown into a transferable plant if I had started to feed them. All of the clones showed yellowing in the middle of the leaves, from what I’ve read this is the plant feeding on the leaves to generate roots but it’s the first time I’ve seen it.

There were two clones hanging bare in the mist and two surrounded by chopped rockwool
These are the bare root clones the larger one rooted in about 1 week; the other one was just beginning to root at two weeks.

Here are the rockwool clones the first one started showing roots at about a week and a half the second rockwool clone failed to root at the two week mark when I quit this round of testing.


I’d have to say that the rooting hormone seemed to help a lot. This round was the clonex, the upcoming round will be with the Green Light (lot’s cheaper and available at big box stores).
Finally, Mech wanted to see my SIP mother experiment. Here she is:

She is in a 1.5l SIP, I was going to DIY the SIP but I found these at Walmart for $1.50 when I was buying the perlite so I didn’t bother. I used 70/30 Coir/Perlite; I fertilized her with 1 tsp. OC and 1 tsp. of gypsum. Since then I have only been watering her with RO water adding ½ tsp. Epsom salt per cup of water. I’m trying the bonsai mother route but haven’t really got the hang of trimming her. Currently I’m letting her grow out so I have more clones for my cloner tests.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

r0m- it seems like your already getting a better handle on things, good to see things get better. What about Atomizer's cloning advice did you misunderstand? The hand watering part? What's a sip- like a sippy-cup? lol

BTW- I'm about to announce my aero rig is gonna be done in an hour or 2- your the first to hear Now I can race you to kill plants that can easily grow on their own in soil without any intervention hahahha


I just gave your thread a 5 star rating

 

[r0m30]

r0m- it seems like your already getting a better handle on things, good to see things get better. What about Atomizer's cloning advice did you misunderstand? The hand watering part?

She seems to be doing better, not sure I've got the nutes right but they are a lot closer.

My cloner is the spray 'em until they root type, Atomizer was talking about cloning in a HPA environment. The rockwool was to wet in the test. I was surprised that I got any roots at all.

What's a sip- like a sippy-cup? lol

A SIP is a sub-irrigated planter. The earth box is one you may have heard of, also look at Earth Buckets. The planter sits in water and uses wicking action to keep the soil moist.

BTW- I'm about to announce my aero rig is gonna be done in an hour or 2- your the first to hear Now I can race you to kill plants that can easily grow on their own in soil without any intervention hahahha

Congrats. Yeah, it's kind of funny that the one weed I want to grow is the one I seem to be best at stunting and/or killing

I just gave your thread a 5 star rating

Thanks... I'll have to find the stars and do the same for your's

 

[Trichy Bastard]

She seems to be doing better, not sure I've got the nutes right but they are a lot closer. Good man, I know in short order you'll be blowin that little cabinet up!

My cloner is the spray 'em until they root type, Atomizer was talking about cloning in a HPA environment. The rockwool was to wet in the test. I was surprised that I got any roots at all.
Ahh, yes-got it. Wonder if you could try cloning one in the hpa unit, and see how it goes? If works, it won't take much to hook up the feed to a cloner tote.

A SIP is a sub-irrigated planter. The earth box is one you may have heard of, also look at Earth Buckets. The planter sits in water and uses wicking action to keep the soil moist. Gotcha- that's also a cheap/easy hydro method as well. I was watching a guy grow 30" plants in a 16oz plastic beer party cup- and the damn thing looked really healthy and bushy! LOL (I guess that on my mind made me think you were trying to grow in a cup too lol).

Congrats. Yeah, it's kind of funny that the one weed I want to grow is the one I seem to be best at stunting and/or killing It's just because we try to do advanced growing methods to try to get better results. Until they're dialed in, they can be tough, but we both know in a pot of soil with only watering, you'd do fine. Hell- the guy in the plastic cup is outgrowing alot of us! HAHAHAH
Thanks... I'll have to find the stars and do the same for your's

No need, but just for your info, it's at the top of the page near "thread tools" says "rate this thread"

 

[r0m30]

I’ve started my third cloning test. This one is all bare clones hanging in the mist. I’m using the Green Light rooting hormone that I talked about a few posts back. I’m also starting them under 52W of CFL in a brooder lamp for a few days to see if that helps them with the shock. To make it interesting I swapped out the tefen nozzles for the DIG EXL foggers that Mike Young found. I’ve got to say that I’m reasonably impressed, the mist looks fine and even with 4 of them in a 5 gallon bucket you can see the mist floating around for 20-30 seconds after the spray finishes. They don’t have a check valve so the aquatec primes without a bypass.

I really need to find a permanent home for the mother, she keeps getting stuck someplace and ignored.

No pictures cause they look just like the last batch from the top and there aren’t any roots to ooh and ahh over

 

[Mike Young]

I&#8217;ve started my third cloning test. This one is all bare clones hanging in the mist. I&#8217;m using the Green Light rooting hormone that I talked about a few posts back. I&#8217;m also starting them under 52W of CFL in a brooder lamp for a few days to see if that helps them with the shock. To make it interesting I swapped out the tefen nozzles for the DIG EXL foggers that Mike Young found. I&#8217;ve got to say that I&#8217;m reasonably impressed, the mist looks fine and even with 4 of them in a 5 gallon bucket you can see the mist floating around for 20-30 seconds after the spray finishes. They don&#8217;t have a check valve so the aquatec primes without a bypass.

I really need to find a permanent home for the mother, she keeps getting stuck someplace and ignored.

No pictures cause they look just like the last batch from the top and there aren&#8217;t any roots to ooh and ahh over

Damn, I feel like I'm in the same boat. I got two mothers not doin too well, and on my 3rd or 4th run at clones, with not great success. I'm thinking that I need to try feeding my clones some nutes, as they start yellowing by the time roots begin to show. My frustration has lead to neglect, which leads to more frustration. My first grow went so well.