True HP Aero For 2011

[PetFlora]

I have come to same conclusion (through trial and ERROR) as these guys. There is a tendency to want root hairs from the get go, and so I, at least, was cutting the mist cycle back too soon. Until a ~ tennis/soft ball ball size root system is established, there simply is not sufficient root surface area to feed the plants with short mist cycles. I am finding even 3 seconds is too short. I hope this makes sense.

 

[r0m30]

chennemann - thanks for the tips.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Thanks TB .. I'm more then likely going to use the identical items that you have posted on page 3. Except for the chamber.. I think I will keep the reservoir in the separate chamber outside of the tent. I'm wondering would I still need a silk screen netting to prevent the roots from hitting the floor? If I do not use the silk screen netting would over saturation occur on the bottom side of the roots?

How do you feel about vegging in ebb and flow, then transferring to aero?

Sounds good- I am still on the fence regarding my chamber lol... The rootscreen helps the root bottoms to not get oversaturated, but don't know what this translates into in terms of actual plant performance. I was recently thinking I could just use some 1X strips of wood with some weed mat sandwiched between it. I don't know for sure if it would work, but seems like a quick/cheap way to try to keep the roots from soaking on the bottom.

The ebb/flow veg could work, but I read that the closer to aero your initial circumstances, the quicker the plants will not have to adjust to aero and take off. I'm likely just going to put cuttings directly in my chamber all at once and root them and then cut down the cycle times. Perhaps I will rethink this after I test it out, as it may initially use up alot of solution in DTW.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I'm in the process of trying riot cubes, as aero cloning alone seems to elude me. I plan to let roots show in the cubes, in my humidome, hand watered once per day... Then I plan to transfer to a small bubble rig, to establish some root mass, and finally to my hpa rig. Talk about a pain. I'm really hoping those cubes get the job done. Really, my whole plan is counting on it. If they root without flaw, I think I'll be able to ditch the idea of keeping a mother, and cut clones just before, or early into flower for the next go.

Atomizer told me to put the cuttings in a netpot with some cubed rockwool into the hp chamber. Hand water the rockwool until the roots show and slowly back off the watering till the roots get used to the mist. The rock wool will help the roots in the netpots for stability later. The small amount of rockwool should not make much a difference to anything beyond helping them to get started. It makes sense to me.

 

[r0m30]

The rootscreen helps the root bottoms to not get oversaturated, but don't know what this translates into in terms of actual plant performance. I was recently thinking I could just use some 1X strips of wood with some weed mat sandwiched between it. I don't know for sure if it would work, but seems like a quick/cheap way to try to keep the roots from soaking on the bottom.

I'm using weed mat sandwiched between two pieces of plastic. Don't know if it will work either, but like you I thought it would be a cheap way to keep the roots from soaking in the run off.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I'm using weed mat sandwiched between two pieces of plastic. Don't know if it will work either, but like you I thought it would be a cheap way to keep the roots from soaking in the run off.

That was literally the exact same idea I had to a T. Let me know how it goes will ya? I know the biggest issue is if the roots have any tiny space to curl under they will, but in absensce of that I don't see why the weed matting won't work. I also considered using a window screen frame- and re-screening it with weedmat, the way the rubber seal locks in- would help to pull the weedmat tight

I spent some time at Home depot this weekend trying to finalize the last details of this whole thing. I could not find a grey electrical box that the timer would fit in as the timer was just a pinch too long from top to bottom to fit in a regular size hole (what box did you use Mike, or anyone recall what Cavadge used for that matter?). I think I decided I will buy a second smaller deck bin such as the one I was planning to use for the root chamber, and inside I could put my reservoir, accumulator, pump etc, and just mount the gauges and stuff to a plywood panel, and in it cutout a rectangular hole for the timer to flush mount. I noticed a nice 10 gallon home depot insulated cooler (like the kind they make big batches of gatorade in for sports events and construction sites). I think where the water spout is on the bottom it can be unscrewed, and it can be easily retrofitted with one of the JG bulkheads for the pump's draw. That will keep my nutes a little cooler during the hotter days, and provide a nice white background to see the nutes with so I will notice any algea growth or impurities. The screw on lid should tighly keep out dust from winds and I guess lets just enough air in to allow the water to flow out the bottom without creating a vacuum. Was all set up to finally do a mist test as I bought a deep cycle battery at costco for only 70 bucks (90 amp-hours) - but I found another JG fitting I lacked the foresight to buy. It was the npt male threaded to JG adaptor that would fit the pump. I think I only got 1/4 threaded size, but my pump must have 3/8 or 1/2"... It really is a pain that these JG parts have to be mail ordered and can't easily be grabbed at my local hardware store. Once that comes- or I find a pvc adaptor that will work, I will do the mist test-lol...

I noticed some of you guys worried about reynold's numbers and about 90 degree angles in the JG line. The misters themselves have a very low flow rate, and as long as the solenoids are near the mist heads, this really shouldn't be a worry unless someone is undertaking a system much larger than anyone here was talking about. Cavadge was worried about it mostly because he was feeding 40 misters with only a solenoid or two that was far away from the misters. We now know that even if the reynolds is not an issue, the mist run on would be in that case. I don't think worrying about 90's in the JG is necessary, and will have at least 4 elbows running outside the perimeter of my chamber. I guess we'll find out if it causes any problems, however- I have paid special attention to trying to make my mist cycles as crisp as possible (following Atomizer's advice) and can hardly wait to see how sharply I can control my mist cycles.

 

[Mike Young]

The box I mounted my timer in, I don't recommend, as I had to fudge it to make it work. Cavadge used a big 6x6" or so. He made it look good, I just wanted something smaller.

Well, I saw some roots poking through one of my cups this morning. Gonna transfer to the bubbler this eve. I really hope to stay mediumless aside from the riot cube. That also means no net cups. We'll see how it goes. If I've learned anything, it that if it can go wrong, it probably will.

 

[PetFlora]

MikeY: I heard that if it can it will, especially in HPA.

What I like about the net cup (keep in mind it is the small one), it's practically invisible once the roots clear, but it does help anchor the plant inside the PVC coupler. Why is that important? Well, once you start getting some weight on the girls, they get heavy and will fall through. Yep, learned this the hard way! The PVC couplers + pots+ neo pucks prevents this. Oh, and I forgot I recently bought a bag of RRs.

 

[Mike Young]

I designed my lids so that my puck cannot slip through. I don't want to restrict the roots in any way. My thoughts are that roots growing through small holes in netcups must restrict growth as plants mature. I think the plants are resilient, and easily overcome the obstacle. I know everybody grows in netpots, with great success, I am just gonna see if I can't get away from em.

 

[r0m30]

That was literally the exact same idea I had to a T. Let me know how it goes will ya? I know the biggest issue is if the roots have any tiny space to curl under they will, but in absensce of that I don't see why the weed matting won't work. I also considered using a window screen frame- and re-screening it with weedmat, the way the rubber seal locks in- would help to pull the weedmat tight

You'll probably be on your way before I have the final results but I'll keep you posted.

It really is a pain that these JG parts have to be mail ordered and can't easily be grabbed at my local hardware store.

You can pick up Watts brand connectors at HD and some other brand at Lowes here in Ca. The should work in a pinch but they aren't cheap either.

I noticed some of you guys worried about reynold's numbers and about 90 degree angles in the JG line. The misters themselves have a very low flow rate, and as long as the solenoids are near the mist heads, this really shouldn't be a worry unless someone is undertaking a system much larger than anyone here was talking about. Cavadge was worried about it mostly because he was feeding 40 misters with only a solenoid or two that was far away from the misters. We now know that even if the reynolds is not an issue, the mist run on would be in that case. I don't think worrying about 90's in the JG is necessary, and will have at least 4 elbows running outside the perimeter of my chamber. I guess we'll find out if it causes any problems, however- I have paid special attention to trying to make my mist cycles as crisp as possible (following Atomizer's advice) and can hardly wait to see how sharply I can control my mist cycles.

Generally I agree that we are small enough to get away without needing to get into a lot of fluid dynamics math but knowing the principles should help us design a better more balanced system.
I'm guessing the 90 degree elbows are at the corners of your chamber, it would probably give you a better pressure balance if you left those out and just bent the tubing around the corners. The 1/4" tubing is reasonably flexible.

Well, I saw some roots poking through one of my cups this morning. Gonna transfer to the bubbler this eve. I really hope to stay mediumless aside from the riot cube. That also means no net cups. We'll see how it goes. If I've learned anything, it that if it can go wrong, it probably will.

Good luck, and yea Murphy is always lurking.

I designed my lids so that my puck cannot slip through. I don't want to restrict the roots in any way. My thoughts are that roots growing through small holes in netcups must restrict growth as plants mature. I think the plants are resilient, and easily overcome the obstacle. I know everybody grows in netpots, with great success, I am just gonna see if I can't get away from em.

I'm planning on cutting the bottom out of my net cups but I'm hoping that a little something to grab on to will help stabilize the plant as she grows.

 

[Mike Young]

The watts fittings aren't any cheaper than JG, but I've had some issues with them not releasing. I'd try & use them in places where you don't intend on fiddling with as much.

 

[foresakenlion]

when lab technicians want to filter something, they usually use a cotton swab, it has the right qualities to make an excellent low micron filter, it's cheap and effective, I bring this up because you can also use it as a starting media for seeds, a lot cleaner when you're going long term aero than trying to transplant out of anything else.

 

[aerojunkie]

when lab technicians want to filter something, they usually use a cotton swab, it has the right qualities to make an excellent low micron filter, it's cheap and effective, I bring this up because you can also use it as a starting media for seeds, a lot cleaner when you're going long term aero than trying to transplant out of anything else.

Cotton swabs (or most other organic materials) decompose fairly quickly and are a magnet to algae and bacteria. It is also very difficult to remove from the pot after rooting, and has a tendency to clog filters and heads quickly if you recycle during cloning or germination. I don't recommend it.

 

[PetFlora]

I use both RW and S2G starter cubes for seeds. The S2G work if you make sure they are not too close to the bubbles. I put a layer of small hydroton in between and that worked, but this time I simply did not push the S2G all the way to the bottom of my small net pot; I left about 1/2". That said I bought a bag of Sunleaves Fast Starter Plugs.

FYI: Since increasing my wet cycle to 8 seconds (18G pod) and 3 minutes pause, the plants have made a nice comeback. Leaves have darkened and beginning to get bigger. Of course I ill lower as the root balls develop, but clearly I was starving my young plants. hth

 

[foresakenlion]

Junkie, you'd be hard pressed to fine another suitable seed starting medium, I've thought this over a lot, and seeds are a nagging issue. cottons about as good as you're going to get on this. No one has documented a way to start seeds without a media.

 

[foresakenlion]

Thank you r0m just went searching all over the net for how to quick connect to npt off a tee, found your post. So I'd run it from the solenoid, into the tee, over the base of the tee into that qc to npt, then I'd attach the npt mister?

 

[aerojunkie]

Junkie, you'd be hard pressed to fine another suitable seed starting medium, I've thought this over a lot, and seeds are a nagging issue. cottons about as good as you're going to get on this. No one has documented a way to start seeds without a media.

Have you kept cotton in a pot for over a week? Its messy as hell, just because its not "documented" its not to say a perfectly viable system for germination in Aero does not exist... If you want to explain your method in detail as to how much cotton you use, and when and if you remove it, I'd be inclined to listen. However if someone takes your info and fills a net pot with cotton swabs expecting no issues, they're gonna be "loading up a hair trigger double barrel shit-machine gun and the barrels pointed straight at their own heads." I'm not here to say it wont work at all, but you need no more than a pea sized piece of cotton to germinate successfully. Even then, removing that small amount of cotton (though highly recommended) is not easy considering the frail state a newly sprouted seedling is in.

 

[aerojunkie]

I designed my lids so that my puck cannot slip through. I don't want to restrict the roots in any way. My thoughts are that roots growing through small holes in netcups must restrict growth as plants mature. I think the plants are resilient, and easily overcome the obstacle. I know everybody grows in netpots, with great success, I am just gonna see if I can't get away from em.

Have you thought about trimming and widening the holes in the pots to prevent restriction? Most pots are fairly durable, you might be surprised how nonrestrictive you can make them. What size pot are you using?

 

[PetFlora]

I'm betting organic cotton is a bad idea, but synthetic might be good, or, S2G sells mats, but they are difficult to cut. In the mean time I solved my problem using either S2g/RW grow cubes or the Sunleaves Super Starters = small net pot + 1.5" PVC coupler

 

[Mike Young]

Have you thought about trimming and widening the holes in the pots to prevent restriction? Most pots are fairly durable, you might be surprised how nonrestrictive you can make them. What size pot are you using?

I don't plan on using pots at all. My homemade 3" neoprene pucks I cut are alot more dense than the ones you can buy. They are 1" thick, and fit very snug into the 2" thick styrofoam lids. The extra inch of styrofoam is what keeps it from slipping through. I demonstrated how well it held for petflora on another forum awhile back. I'll see if I can find the clip.