what is it that convinces you ?

[diesel15]

What makes you think we haven't done this? You have to understand that what you are saying is essentially meaningless, in that it doesn't explain anything to me. I understand that you've had profound moments while under the influence that you attribute to your faith, but to me these things can all be explained. The more you know, the less there is to guess about. You are being too vague and ambiguous in your explanation. I'm still not getting it.

"go out into nature and just experience life" doesn't tell me anything because I have done that, as have many others, and yet we still don't believe like you do.

There has to be a way to explain the process to someone who doesn't believe. I've gone out into nature, it's beautiful but there is nothing, absolutely nothing, from the animals to the plants to the mountains to the rocks to the water to the very Earth I stand on that can't be explained through naturalistic means. None of this is the trademark of a creator if you understand what you're looking at. Furthermore, if nature was the standard in which we observed divinity, how would you explain things we see in nature that are completely inconsistent with human survival? Sure we see patterns and human faces when there are none, but what do you make of those patterns or faces when they're observed in things like storm clouds, hurricanes, volcano explosions, the HIV virus, Cancer, etc? How do you account for all the things in nature that exist that could kill us in seconds? Is that God's creation too?

yeah man, ijust can't describe the feeling in words to where its completely understandable. it was like a complete eye opener to how beautiful life is. to what life is... iwish icould give you the feeling, because it truly is wonderful. herbs reveal to you things which you didn't notice sober because you experienced it for so many years, you overlook it now. you gotta let go of worldly tings and live your life God gave. you see were just temporarily here(alive), so you can't get too attached to livin in this earth because it'll corrupt you. we came in the world with nothin, we leavin out with nothin. but livin the way the Holy Bible says is good in God's sight and God will look out for you. ive seen it, and ive never seen God abandon a righteous man/woman or his child beggin on the streets for food. but look, some preachers are wolves in sheeps clothing and will fool people, so be careful. im sorry, ijust can't explain it right. burn herbs and listen to David Jeremiah, hes a pretty good preacher and will say things that'll open your eyes on it bit by bit. im out of juice completely so ill get to any replys asap.

 

[sen.c]

If you need me to explain any of my big words I can. Meanwhile how about you offer an actual rebuttal instead of abuse. I point out mistakes, you point out personal dislike

No my friend all you do is point out your opinion and try and verbally beat someone who doesn't think like you into submission. That doesn't work on all people.

My statement pertained to the religious ideology and practice of process; in it's inability to self-correct and embrace critical analysis as compared to science. Science prepares us for and propels us into the future. Science fosters progress. Religion keeps us anchored in past mythology and hinders, indeed outright discourages, advancement.

More BS as usual, there are many Scientists that are Christians.

The standards of debate were decided independent of me. Many websites outline the proper way to debate, and also list common invalid debate tactics and logical fallacies. No need for me to write a book; the need seems to lie in your lack of awareness. There is nothing wrong with demanding your points carry intelectual merit beyond manipulation. If you don't want your assertions criticized, don't bring them to the table.

I am very aware that you are affraid of the possibility you may not understand something and it is evident in your prideful statements. You don't bother me in the least, am I supposed to cowar at your big words. I know what they mean but I don't feel it is necessary to use them to make me feel educated. By the way, you have been asked many questions in these past few debates that you have done no better of a job providing proof for. You see it is a two way street, for everything you bring up I can bring up something you can't prove and the same here but you like to call people out because "Science says" but like I said that's not always the case.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Trust me sen.c, from an outside observer, between you and Heis, Heis is clearly winning the debate. It's not about using big words or feeling superior, and this is what you miss every time you reply. Language is just a tool, just like science, those well versed in language, just like science, will have a better understanding of the way to use it.

Science has evidence, faith doesn't, which is the point.

 

[sen.c]

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro, you aren't rocking my boat. Oh, by the way you still can't prove what you have been asked by a few of us but that's o.k. we already know the answer.
PRIDE is a tough thing to swallow, just hope that nobody makes you.
I know what convinces me and it's not you guys.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro, you aren't rocking my boat. Oh, by the way you still can't prove what you have been asked by a few of us but that's o.k. we already know the answer.
PRIDE is a tough thing to swallow, just hope that nobody makes you.
I know what convinces me and it's not you guys.

What have I been asked that I "can't prove"?

 

[gfreeman]

this argument will be around until the end of time. its been around since the begginning of time, only, back then you were killed for questioning.

 

[Padawanbater2]

That's progress baby

 

[diesel15]

let me say this, i've recently discovered this in my burnin journeys not too long ago. afew weeks maybe. but look, ive read a thread of Padawanbater and i've noticed that we don't give God the title he really has. imean, we see God above us, but we don't see God as infinite above us.... He's God Almighty. Alpha and Omega(beginning and end). He been here infinite time, which is hard to grasp. He knows all, he see's all, because He made all, because He made all. He's in control. its His world, its His rules, He's the boss. unbelievers say, man that's impossible, believers are crazy. right? but stop going by what you see, and go by what you feel in your heart.... stealing, killing, fornication, lying & others is frawned upon by anybody with sense. these are things God doesn't like. its foul to Him, so its foul to us. it's like this, when someone gets a gift or hears about someone else's gift... an amazing gift. they say no, no, ''its too good to be true''. the same, hearing about God. no, no, ''its too good to be true'' ''idont/cant believe it/you'', is it not the same principle?... well, you say ''inever seen God, where's the proof?'', ''your lying to me if you can't show me proof''. itold you about it.. now, if you wanna see it firsthand, just open your eyes and look at it. if you don't see proof of God, then your looking too hard because its clearly in everyone's faces.... like isaid before, life is too complex and in extremely great detail for it too just happen ''naturally'' without a master plan to be in place from the very beginning.

another thing also, anybody can see something somewhere, point to it and describe it to show others, and some still won't see it when its right there in their faces, and that's the truth.

 

[olylifter420]

totally biased opinion... if you were a believer would you side with heis or sen.c?

Trust me sen.c, from an outside observer, between you and Heis, Heis is clearly winning the debate. It's not about using big words or feeling superior, and this is what you miss every time you reply. Language is just a tool, just like science, those well versed in language, just like science, will have a better understanding of the way to use it.

Science has evidence, faith doesn't, which is the point.

 

[olylifter420]

i think it should still be done, lol

this argument will be around until the end of time. its been around since the begginning of time, only, back then you were killed for questioning.

 

[Heisenberg]

Whatever helps you sleep at night bro, you aren't rocking my boat. Oh, by the way you still can't prove what you have been asked by a few of us but that's o.k. we already know the answer.
PRIDE is a tough thing to swallow, just hope that nobody makes you.
I know what convinces me and it's not you guys.

What makes you think we care about your boat?

I am appealing to logical coherence, of which you seem to possess little. I am suggesting you take responsibility when you spread absurdity by vetting your claims. I am asking, when we examine your logic and exclude manipulation, inconsistency and non-sense, is there really anything left?

I have pointed out your double standard, intentional bias and posturing. You respond by telling me I use big words and pretending my goal is to coward you. Just because cowardice and incompetence can be found in your words there is no reason to blame me for pointing it out. Your response is to simply act like you did none of those things and then allude to me dodging questions and purposely being conceited. You can not defend your moronic statements so your only recourse is to pretend like you don't have to and then attack me on a personal level. Of course you can claim these things, but offer no support, which seems to be a theme with you. You have not progressed past high-school mentality. Chicanery may fool your brain, it does not fool ours.

If you continue to portray science as a religion, to unfairly attack science and skepticism, and to assert half-witted allegations about atheists, you will continue to be corrected and called out as the asinine excuse for an intellectual you depict.

 

[tyler.durden]

let me say this, i've recently discovered this in my burnin journeys not too long ago. afew weeks maybe. but look, ive read a thread of Padawanbater and i've noticed that we don't give God the title he really has. imean, we see God above us, but we don't see God as infinite above us.... He's God Almighty. Alpha and Omega(beginning and end). He been here infinite time, which is hard to grasp. He knows all, he see's all, because He made all, because He made all. He's in control. its His world, its His rules, He's the boss. unbelievers say, man that's impossible, believers are crazy. right? but stop going by what you see, and go by what you feel in your heart.... stealing, killing, fornication, lying & others is frawned upon by anybody with sense. these are things God doesn't like. its foul to Him, so its foul to us. it's like this, when someone gets a gift or hears about someone else's gift... an amazing gift. they say no, no, ''its too good to be true''. the same, hearing about God. no, no, ''its too good to be true'' ''idont/cant believe it/you'', is it not the same principle?... well, you say ''inever seen God, where's the proof?'', ''your lying to me if you can't show me proof''. itold you about it.. now, if you wanna see it firsthand, just open your eyes and look at it. if you don't see proof of God, then your looking too hard because its clearly in everyone's faces.... like isaid before, life is too complex and in extremely great detail for it too just happen ''naturally'' without a master plan to be in place from the very beginning.

another thing also, anybody can see something somewhere, point to it and describe it to show others, and some still won't see it when its right there in their faces, and that's the truth.

I think that you're confusing your subjective experience with objective truth. Do you know the difference between subjective and objective? Have you ever studied any cosmology, evolution, biology, cognitive science? You may believe what you do because you don't know anything else. Just because you don't have the understanding of how the things around you came to be doesn't mean others don't. The topics I listed above explain everything in your outlook that you ascribe to your god. You obviously do not take the time to read others posts and really attempt to understand what they are saying. Either that, or you willfully overlook the knowledge, put your fingers in your ears and stick with what you know. You are stating that god is axiomatic, he has always been. The same could be stated about the universe without god: it was not created and has always been. Neither is a very satisfying answer. The universe is much grander and more majestic than you even realize, if you have the courage to study its workings, you will have a much greater appreciation for it than you even do now. It seems like you are most interested in comfort, others are more interested in reality...

 

[diesel15]

im curious, what do yall think happens when we die?

 

[silasraven]

i believe for me ill get to go to the one place i want to see the most with my transition into heaven. the pillars, neblulas and all bad ass glowing gas pockets and stars in space.

 

[Luger187]

im curious, what do yall think happens when we die?

our body is broken down and becomes a part of the ecosystem. the bugs eat us, and things like birds eat the bugs, then a cat or something eats the bird, etc. plus flies can lay eggs in us. we give life to other life, just like other life has done for us during our lifetimes.

this is why i dont believe in coffin burials or embalming of the dead. i think we should just give ourselves back to the earth. we spend our lives destroying the planet and taking from her, so i think the least we could do is give back the energy in our bodies when we die. i think the peruvians do this with vultures.

anyways... our conscious and unconscious experiences are all just brain functions. there have been many experiments done that show all of the things we do are controlled by the brain. when someone has hurt a certain part of their brain, a certain ability goes away or is damaged. we can even recreate religious or sensed presence experiences using a magnet on your head. even atheists have the experience. it is nothing but a brain function.
when we die, our brain fails to work. we have no sense of self, no consciousness, none of the 5 senses, no logic, no memory, nothing. we simply cease to exist, and we have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Doj]

when we die, our brain fails to work. we have no sense of self, no consciousness, none of the 5 senses, no logic, no memory, nothing. we simply cease to exist, and we have no reason to believe otherwise.

This is not fully accurate. Everything else you stated seemed right on. But consciousness(some call a soul)is not purely a brain function. There are studies being done by the great Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Stuart Hameroff, and others I can't remember their name. But time and time again have people been clinically dead, then brought back to life. While they were clinically dead, they have experiences...then get revived and they recall their experiences. Those memories are just a small example, but personally I believe we still have a ways to go to really understand what is going on.

 

[diesel15]

ok understandable. soo... do any unbelievers believe in the existence of spirits? ya know? people getting possessed?

 

[cannabineer]

im curious, what do yall think happens when we die?

I believe that I will go to the place I was before I was born - utter oblivion, nonexistence, null set.
The principal difference is that, having lived, i leave memories of myself behind in the living world of people. I can only hope that on balance, the memories will be good.
cheers 'neer

<edit> just saw the second question in re spirit(s).
Credo: I am my meat. I don't have a soul or spirit, and I don't believe external/extraneous spirits exist to take possession of my cranial real estate. min dyou, this is my belief ... i am not selling it.

 

[RawBudzski]

.........

 

[Luger187]

This is not fully accurate. Everything else you stated seemed right on. But consciousness(some call a soul)is not purely a brain function. There are studies being done by the great Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Stuart Hameroff, and others I can't remember their name. But time and time again have people been clinically dead, then brought back to life. While they were clinically dead, they have experiences...then get revived and they recall their experiences. Those memories are just a small example, but personally I believe we still have a ways to go to really understand what is going on.

yeah i guess i shouldnt have said it like that. the brain will still work when we are dead sometimes. like if your heart stops, they consider you dead. but you brain still works for a bit after. out of body experiences are interesting, but im still skeptical.