Immigration Reform

dukeanthony

New Member
MYTH #1. ILLEGAL ALIENS TAKE AMERICAN JOBS.
Not so. For the most part, illegal aliens work jobs Americans simply do not want. Those jobs include farm workers, janitors, chambermaids, busboys, dishwashers, gardeners, nannies and household domestics. Those are not the careers Americans seek. The jobs Mexicans perform in the U.S. are usually minimum wage with no benefits. They do the lousy, back-breaking work Americans can but refuse to do.

MYTH #2. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T PAY TAXES
Not True. The majority of illegal aliens pay the exact same taxes you and I pay. Most illegal aliens work for employers who don't know they are illegal or, possibly suspect they may be illegal, but don't want to know for sure.
As a result, the typical employer of an undocumented worker deducts all the federal income and other taxes from all his employees - legal and illegal alike.

MYTH #3. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T LEARN ENGLISH OR ASSIMILATE.
Yes and No. The typical Mexican who grew up in Mexico attended school there for only 3 to 6 years. As a result, most of the older Mexicans who are here only speak their native language at a basic level. As a result, it is tremendously difficult for many of those adults to learn fluent English.
The children of those older immigrants, however, go to school in the U.S., are immersed in English-speaking American culture and virtually all speak English. Those second-generation Mexicans speak English and assimilate into U.S. culture the same way the Irish, Italians, Japanese and every other group of new immigrants have.

MYTH #4. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY; THEY JUST COME HERE TO GET ON WELFARE.
Not even close. Illegal aliens contribute immensely to the U.S. economy. They work hard and perform the essential jobs that are vital to keeping the U.S. economy moving forward. They pay taxes and consume goods-from cars and gas to groceries and houses - and buy services which, in turn, benefits those U.S. citizens selling those goods and services.
As for illegal aliens signing up for welfare, U.S. law strictly prohibits those here illegally from obtaining welfare, food stamps or any other type of public assistance.

MYTH #5. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD APPLY TO LEGALLY COME IN TO WORK IN THE U.S.
Great idea, except it just happens to be impossible. The present system for employment-based immigration allows only 5,000 low-skill Green Cards per year for the entire United States.
The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.

MYTH #6. ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A DISPROPORTIONATE PERCENTAGE OF CRIME.
Not true. Numerous reputable studies have shown that the problem of crime in the United States is not caused or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status. Over the past few years, when someone is arrested the first question they are asked by the police after their name and address is, "Where were you born?" If the answer to that question is not "U.S.A." the Border Patrol is automatically contacted and the person, if undocumented, is immediately placed into the deportation process. As a result, undocumented individuals have a very high incentive to not break the law.

MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
Not so. The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment. A recent RAND corporation study states as follows: "The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately fewer medical services and contribute less to health care costs in relation to their population share."

MYTH #8. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD BE FERRETED OUT AND DEPORTED FROM THE U.S.
Not likely. The estimated 11 million undocumented individuals in the U.S. is equivalent to the entire populations of Washington, Oregon and Idaho combined. It would be impossible to locate and deport that many people. Besides, millions of those adults unlawfully here have an estimated 4 million U.S. citizen children who the government would be required to find foster parents for if their parents were deported. Finally, if a magic wand was waved and all undocumented workers were gone tomorrow, it is highly unlikely that native-born Americans would do the lousy, back-breaking agricultural and other minimum wage/no benefits work that the undocumented do in the U.S. economy.

MYTH #9. THE ILLEGAL ALIEN PROBLEM WOULD BE FIXED IF WE JUST COMPLETED THE FENCE ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
No even close. For every 15-foot fence there is a 16-foot ladder or a shovel that can dig underneath it. Besides, 40% of those undocumented in the U.S.-about 4.4 million-entered legally and overstayed their visas. The fence may help but it alone will not solve our immigration situation.

MYTH #10. THE PROPOSED IMMIGRATION REFORMS IN CONGRESS ARE JUST ANOTHER 'AMNESTY'.
No. Amnesty is defined as "Forgiveness without penalty." All of the immigration reform proposals require payment of a fine (maybe $1000), learning some English, paying all back taxes (if any are owed) and going to the back of the line before obtaining Legal Permanent Residence status.
The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.

MYTH #11. AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT IMMIGRATION REFORM.
Not true. When Americans are asked the question, "Do you support a legalization program that would allow those in the U.S. illegally to obtain legal status if they could meet the following requirements: a strong work history, no serious criminal convictions, no deportations, learn some English, pay all back taxes, pay a fine and go to the back of the immigration line," numerous polls have shown that 60 to 70% of likely voters are in favor of such a solution to our immigration situation.

MYTH #12. DENYING ILLEGAL ALIENS DRIVER'S LICENSES WILL HELP SOLVE THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.
That's crazy. The overwhelming reason why the undocumented are here is to work. Almost all workers in America need to drive to get to work. Workers, especially farm workers, typically must travel long distances to get to and from work. From the point of view of the public safety of U.S. citizens, it is much better if everyone driving on the highways has completed a driver's course and has qualified for a driver's license.

MYTH #13. IF EVERY EMPLOYER WAS REQUIRED TO VERIFY THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER OF EVERY EMPLOYEE, WE COULD SOLVE OUR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SITUATION.
Well, yes, sort of. A mandatory social security verification system is a good idea but only if there is an earned legalization program put in place simultaneously. Under current circumstances, requiring social security verification without earned legalization would create chaos in many sectors of the U.S. economy. It is estimated that 50-60% of farm workers are undocumented and the percentage of undocumented workers in many other low-skill, minimum-wage, no benefits jobs-such as dishwashers, gardeners, dairy workers, janitors, chambermaids-is also very high.

MYTH #14. A LAW LIKE THE NEW LAW IN ARIZONA WOULD SOLVE OUR IMMIGRATION SITUATION.
No way. The Arizona law is an over reaction and can best be compared to how we over reacted in 1942 when the U.S. government placed all west coast Japanese in internment camps. Thirty percent of Arizona's citizens-over 2 million people-are Hispanic and legal. The Arizona law is vague and invites discrimination against them.

MYTH #15. THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION SITUATION ARE RACISTS. Not even close. Of course, some racism does exist in this debate. But, for the most part, the American public is frustrated and angry that our elected officials prefer to play "gotcha" politics with this difficult and controversial issue rather than addressing it in a mature, common sense manner. Most Americans recognize that most of the people here illegally are working hard at low-end jobs and they believe the politicians should find some rational solution to this very contentious matter.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
That's all awesome and total horseshit, but even if a glimmer of it were true, the only two words in all of your post that matter are "illegal alien". It doesn't matter if illegals can cure disease with mere thought, save babies from burning buildings, prove the existence of and channel the thoughts of an almighty god, if they came here illegally... they gots to go. No debate, no path to citizenship, just get the fuck out...now. Canadian, Mexican, Jamaican, Russian, whatever, GTFO.
 

mame

Well-Known Member
That's all awesome and total horseshit, but even if a glimmer of it were true, the only two words in all of your post that matter are "illegal alien". It doesn't matter if illegals can cure disease with mere thought, save babies from burning buildings, prove the existence of and channel the thoughts of an almighty god, if they came here illegally... they gots to go. No debate, no path to citizenship, just get the fuck out...now. Canadian, Mexican, Jamaican, Russian, whatever, GTFO.
why dont you try using facts and evidence to "prove" that Dukeanthony's post is "total horseshit"?
 

STACKB

Active Member
Dude has a spanish SN and is hating on his own ppl. LOL

Illegals cant get help from the govt, because they are illegal in the first place. I dont even wanna get started with the immgration issue, ppl are so small minded when it comes to the topic.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
why dont you try using facts and evidence to "prove" that Dukeanthony's post is "total horseshit"?

I'm not quite sure what evidence needs to be "proven" to support my last post. As usual you only want to address the portion that you can get into a pissing match about, and completely bypassed the entire point of the post. Which, was that they are "illegal aliens", I don't need to "prove" that, they are what they are. It doesn't matter if they are a burden or a economic gift from the heavens... no tickey, no shirty.

You want to list the benefits and advantages and not discuss the fact that THEY AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Exactly what part of "illegal" isn't registering with you? You can't drone on endlessly on that topic, so you ignore it. Unfortunately for you and the ilk like you, we aren't playing that game any more. If they are illegal, they go, no trial, no amnesty, no benefits...that's it. GTFO.

Enforce the immigration laws that are in effect. Don't like them? Try to change them, otherwise the only input needed from any of you is if you have a fantastic idea of how to get them the fuck out of here.

Is that reality too harsh for your liberal sensibilities?
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Dude has a spanish SN and is hating on his own ppl. LOL

Illegals cant get help from the govt, because they are illegal in the first place. I dont even wanna get started with the immgration issue, ppl are so small minded when it comes to the topic.
I'm an US citizen, born and bred. They ain't my fuckin people. I have no problem with anyone coming to this country legally, but I have a real problem with anyone just waltzing in with no documentation. Process takes too long? Tough shit, go somewhere else.
 

Justin00

Active Member
the OP is very well worded to appear to disprove misconceptions while adding or removing key words to leave clear loop holes in the interpretation and thus be indisputable.

Example:

MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
Not so(you can't state a fact before you provide your evidence if you want ppl to actually read and agree with it, you state the facts you have proven after). The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled("entitled" does not mean the same thing as "provided with") to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment(weather the treatment is emergency or a cold and also free of charge, unlike like a registered citizen). A recent RAND corporation (and these ppl are???) study states as follows: "The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately (think of the actually meaning of this word) fewer medical services and contribute less (LESS does not = none) to health care costs in relation to their population share." ( as illegals they are 0% of our population so for this last thing to be true they must use 0% of the of the health care costs)

see?

i'm not arguing the ethics of immigration, I'm just saying your misleading ppl into thinking your saying something your not. and if you want ppl to respect your opinion try presenting it in a less underhanded way and saying exactly what you want to say.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
the OP is very well worded to appear to disprove misconceptions while adding or removing key words to leave clear loop holes in the interpretation and thus be indisputable.

Example:

MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
Not so(you can't state a fact before you provide your evidence if you want ppl to actually read and agree with it, you state the facts you have proven after). The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled("entitled" does not mean the same thing as "provided with") to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment(weather the treatment is emergency or a cold and also free of charge, unlike like a registered citizen). A recent RAND corporation (and these ppl are???) study states as follows: "The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately (think of the actually meaning of this word) fewer medical services and contribute less (LESS does not = none) to health care costs in relation to their population share." ( as illegals they are 0% of our population so for this last thing to be true they must use 0% of the of the health care costs)

see?

i'm not arguing the ethics of immigration, I'm just saying your misleading ppl into thinking your saying something your not. and if you want ppl to respect your opinion try presenting it in a less underhanded way and saying exactly what you want to say.
that hasn't been my experience.

i live in a town called hillsboro, we are the town (along with the next one over) where the biggest share of the hispanic population like to congregate. we are famous enough for it that they call us hillsburrito.

in any case, i go to the health clinic that works on a sliding scale for now. my visits have been anywhere from $25 to $60 or so, depending on my financial situation at the time. as you might imagine, the waiting room is filled with hispanic looking folks, but when i am waiting to be seen or waiting to pay my bill, they are not getting their care for free. i imagine in a crowd of hispanics like there is in there, some of them are probably her illegally.

in any case, the benefit i derive from all of this is that the demographics of having so many low income families around is that everything is cheaper in this part of town than even the outskirts of hillsboro, just some 3 or 4 miles away. our gas station has the cheapest gas for a chevron in the entire state, restaurants serve larger portions for less money. hell, one place does unlimited tacos on wednesdays for $2. only $2! i go in when they start at noon and eat until i am about to barf and am full for the whole day on $2.

send your illegals over here if you don't want them. they make delicious food and drive down the cost of everything.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
why dont you try using facts and evidence to "prove" that Dukeanthony's post is "total horseshit"?
Its not his post, it is from the Elitetrader site. Its a Cut and Paste. Duke doesn't have the time nor inclination to make a post over 2 paragraphs and usually no more than a quick snide remark and a opinion at that.
 

Justin00

Active Member
that hasn't been my experience.

i live in a town called hillsboro, we are the town (along with the next one over) where the biggest share of the hispanic population like to congregate. we are famous enough for it that they call us hillsburrito.

in any case, i go to the health clinic that works on a sliding scale for now. my visits have been anywhere from $25 to $60 or so, depending on my financial situation at the time. as you might imagine, the waiting room is filled with hispanic looking folks, but when i am waiting to be seen or waiting to pay my bill, they are not getting their care for free. i imagine in a crowd of hispanics like there is in there, some of them are probably her illegally.

in any case, the benefit i derive from all of this is that the demographics of having so many low income families around is that everything is cheaper in this part of town than even the outskirts of hillsboro, just some 3 or 4 miles away. our gas station has the cheapest gas for a chevron in the entire state, restaurants serve larger portions for less money. hell, one place does unlimited tacos on wednesdays for $2. only $2! i go in when they start at noon and eat until i am about to barf and am full for the whole day on $2.

send your illegals over here if you don't want them. they make delicious food and drive down the cost of everything.
you make a good point, i did kind of say that in a way that would lead ppl to believe the health services are simply free to them, and that was not my intention. what i was trying to say is that there are many ways they can easily avoid paying those bills unlike a registered citizen. I agree with you that many of them have cash and pay for at least some percentage of there health care costs. I was pointing out that when your ID and birth certificate are fake it is reasonably easy to avoid paying health care costs, then again its not super hard for citizens to avoid paying them as they are provided weather you have, or even ever will have the $ to cover them. (im not saying thats good or bad i'm just saying its true) i dated a girl who owed over 140k in medical bills from stupid shit... she with the emergency room for everything and never hesitated to call the ambulance over things like kidney infections ect. and she was only required to pay $10 every month to keep it off her credit report or any other type of collection.
 

dukeanthony

New Member
Its not his post, it is from the Elitetrader site. Its a Cut and Paste. Duke doesn't have the time nor inclination to make a post over 2 paragraphs and usually no more than a quick snide remark and a opinion at that.
Duke doesnt Like repeating himself everytime you guys misinform, lie and outright slander

I think the Cut and paste pretty much covers it. The Author thinks "some" racism is Involved
I think its a lot more than just "some"

Real simple question please answer it.
Dont you think if they could come here legally..... they would?






 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
<sigh....Here we go again>
First things first...If any of you believe anything is going get done about illegal immigration, think again. Our "illustrious" elected officials (you know...those guys that make the laws) are every bit as complicit as are the corporations employing said illegal immigrants. When companies such as Cargill, Smithfield et. al. are actively advertising for meat packing positions IN MEXICO FOR POSITIONS IN THE USA, and then aiding said illegals in obtaining housing and falsified documents does anyone think this is happening "under the radar" of law enforcement? We've got ICE officials in an incestuous relationship with these meat packing facilities to only arrest and deport X number of illegals per week so as to not interrupt the production line(s) thusly allowing the corporation(s) time to get more illegals in to take their place!!! This happens every week/month! Does law enforcement ever hold the corporations culpable? Of course not. Why? Donations and payoffs, that's why. It doesn't interrupt the flow of the chicken/beef/baby back ribs that we've come to enjoy at rock bottom prices and ICE officials get to go on TV and show the community that they're doing their job by arresting/deporting illegals...EVERYBODY WINS!!!....Except the poor SOB who got duped into answering an ad in Mexico for a job in the US.

And if anyone thinks that our legislators know nothing about this....think again. This is EXACTLY the way the like it....and intend to keep it. I feel for these folks. I lived in the barrio for over 20 years. My neighbors worked the fields and they worked hard so that we Americans can buy lettuce at 50 cents/head or strawberries at a buck a basket.
 

STACKB

Active Member
I'm an US citizen, born and bred. They ain't my fuckin people. I have no problem with anyone coming to this country legally, but I have a real problem with anyone just waltzing in with no documentation. Process takes too long? Tough shit, go somewhere else.
What process? there is no process. Only way is to marry a citizen and thats illegal. Not everyone is ok with doing
illegal matters, especially in a place thats not their country.

I hear where your coming from, but for you to be born, bred, and raised here, either your mother /grandmother or one of your ancestors had to migrate here. Assuming you are hispanic. I respect your opinion , and why u are territorial about your land, but you never seen harsh times in poor countries to understand why they migrate here. Are they suppose to just stay in their country and wait for a civil war or a massacre to happen so they can be accepted legally into the US as refugees? You only live one life, make the best of it.. Different tokes for diff folks i guess, peace
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Real simple question please answer it.
Dont you think if they could come here legally..... they would?
Of course they come here illegally, they come here so much that they quit letting them in, were full. You think the Government has maximums allowed because its racist? You do realize that the current immigration laws are like they are because of two Democrat senators named McCarran and Walter who sponsored the bill to restrict the number of immigrants from any one country. Truman vetoed the bill calling it un American and discriminatory but it went back to the congress and was passed by 2/3rd rule to become the law of the land. So when you talk about racists, lets not forget about the Democrats who helped make it so. We are a republic, Rule by Law, not rule by majority. You must respect our laws in this country and one of those laws says that you can't just walk across the border and become a quasi illegal citizen here. Illegal Immigrants are here ILLEGALLY!!!!! We don't give Child molestors jobs in day cares and we shouldn't give fugitives from the law jobs at all.

When I was younger I worked as a beet picker on a farm, worked as a gardener, worked as a roofer, worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant and even babysat kids. How dare you tell me that Americans refuse to do that kind of work, there are MILLIONS of Americans who RIGHT NOW would love to get a paycheck for working!! MILLIONS!!
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
When I was younger I worked as a beet picker on a farm, worked as a gardener, worked as a roofer, worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant and even babysat kids. How dare you tell me that Americans refuse to do that kind of work, there are MILLIONS of Americans who RIGHT NOW would love to get a paycheck for working!! MILLIONS!!
tell that to georgia.
 

dukeanthony

New Member
of course they come here illegally, they come here so much that they quit letting them in, were full. You think the government has maximums allowed because its racist? You do realize that the current immigration laws are like they are because of two democrat senators named mccarran and walter who sponsored the bill to restrict the number of immigrants from any one country. Truman vetoed the bill calling it un american and discriminatory but it went back to the congress and was passed by 2/3rd rule to become the law of the land. So when you talk about racists, lets not forget about the democrats who helped make it so. !!
well thats hilarious becuase there seems to be lots of room for white europeans to come here but not brown hispanics

oh yeah and in georgia. They are paying 12-18 an hour to pick crops. No takers. The govenor even tried to force parolees to do the job. They all quit. This is in a State with over 9% unemployment

and hate transends all political boundries and is wrong no matter what
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
well thats hilarious becuase there seems to be lots of room for white europeans to come here but not brown hispanics

oh yeah and in georgia. They are paying 12-18 an hour to pick crops. No takers. The govenor even tried to force parolees to do the job. They all quit. This is in a State with over 9% unemployment

and hate transends all political boundries and is wrong no matter what
Must be proof that the US Government, and by association everyone who is in government, is a raging racist of the most heinous kind. You know how I know you are the biggest racist on the forum? Because race is all you ever talk about, you accuse EVERYONE of being a racist if they disagree with even a minor point of yours.
The white Europeans see no need to come to a country that is not much different than their own except its chock full of idiot Americans and has no history.

Would you go pick crops in the heat of day for $12 an hour if you could make $14 an hour on Unemployment?

Who is hating?
 
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