What the Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

bedspirit

bedspirit

Active Member
The fact that our Founding Fathers hated corporations seems to be a lost bit of history. The original tea party had less to do with rebelling against taxes and more to do with sabotaging the East India Trading Company (history's most infamous corporation). The only reason I knew anything about it was because I stumbled across it in a few obscure books. It's difficult to even find a mention of it in any mainstream publication. I was beginning to suspect that there was some grand conspiracy behind this scrubbing of history. So, I was little surprised today to see this article:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/07/04/what-the-founding-fathers-thought-about-corporations/
 
darkdestruction420

darkdestruction420

Well-Known Member
Interesting article. We've lost the war i think though. Any attempt to reign them in is "socialism" or "tax and spend" or "class warfare" or "job killing regulations.". They've got all the power and we have let ourselves become helpless. They own the world.
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
If the founding fathers were around today they would be very, very, pissed. IMO corporatism and fascism are taking over our society. If you disagree.... and think everything is ok... well then keep thinking that. The Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and basic elimination of the glass steagal act have set this country up to have a big fail.
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
smokebros said:
If the founding fathers were around today they would be very, very, pissed. IMO corporatism and fascism are taking over our society. If you disagree.... and think everything is ok... well then keep thinking that. The Federal Reserve Act in 1913 and basic elimination of the glass steagal act have set this country up to have a big fail.
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yet everyone crys for the government to stay away from business. this is what happens when we let banks have complete control. pure capitalism is a terrible thing, you can never eliminate greed therefor some socialistic practices are a must. we knew this at the dawn of the century and the depression was a great lesson. but of course technology brought on easier ways to FUCK people and make money. if the founding fathers were alive today they actually wouldnt have a fucking clue as to whats going on. they'd have as a much knowledge as a 3rd grader. if your government isnt involved in business....... good fucking luck. men like two things. fucking and getting rich. i sure as hell know i do lol.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
the article is a little misleading. it is refering to govt corporations which are completely different than publicly owned entities of today. many, certainly a majority of corps are small family businesses incorp. to relieve some of the financial liability brought on by the sue happy leeches.

the founders new that they would crush any and all competition.

that being said, what should concern us today are the politicians that are bought by the corps. ones who act in the interest of the corp and not the interest of the american people and liberty.

some such corps that come to mind are the teachers unions and seiu. they are the modern day equivelant of the india trading co.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
tomahawk2406 said:
yet everyone cries for the government to stay away from business. this is what happens when we let banks have complete control. pure capitalism is a terrible thing, you can never eliminate greed therefor some socialistic practices are a must.
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a little research into the subject probably would have saved you from making a point completely opposite from the one you were trying to make. those corporations decried by our founders were inextricably linked to the state. they existed and were granted power solely by decree of the crown under which they did business. they were both protected by and a part of the violent force that is at the disposal of government. they were the last gasp of the feudalism that reigned throughout europe for centuries.

while i'll agree that some social restraints must be put on corporate entities, this is not socialism. the aim of socialism is the economic control of the private sector by government, essentially eliminating it, and these are not the sort of restraints that are required to produce a free society. the protection of the basic rights of the citizenry, of their life and liberty, and of the environment which we all share are the purview of government. the development of industry and the distribution of the wealth it creates are the responsibility of the people and their markets. the notion that the state should regain the sort of control over corporate bodies that is proposed by modern liberalism harkens back to those more primitive notions of the corporation. it once again places centralized control of both the economic and violent powers available to society into the hands of a governing elite.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
undertheice said:
a little research into the subject probably would have saved you from making a point completely opposite from the one you were trying to make. those corporations decried by our founders were inextricably linked to the state. they existed and were granted power solely by decree of the crown under which they did business. they were both protected by and a part of the violent force that is at the disposal of government. they were the last gasp of the feudalism that reigned throughout europe for centuries.

while i'll agree that some social restraints must be put on corporate entities, this is not socialism. the aim of socialism is the economic control of the private sector by government, essentially eliminating it, and these are not the sort of restraints that are required to produce a free society. the protection of the basic rights of the citizenry, of their life and liberty, and of the environment which we all share are the purview of government. the development of industry and the distribution of the wealth it creates are the responsibility of the people and their markets. the notion that the state should regain the sort of control over corporate bodies that is proposed by modern liberalism harkens back to those more primitive notions of the corporation. it once again places centralized control of both the economic and violent powers available to society into the hands of a governing elite.
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ummm, thats what i was trying to say ;-)
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
undertheice said:
once again this morning you are a bit quicker than i am to respond. i guess lighting up a joint this early on a sunday morning does have its downside.
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you should turn on east coast tv and watch the hurricane coverage. best entertainment money can buy when you have a good buzz!
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
well dude we all know what socialism is and i thunk we can all agree we dont what a government like that. i never said i wanted it. i want control over corporations that pray on the people. i still dont get what u mean though. i kinda do kinda dont. all im saying is OUR government let businesses and banks have more freedom.......that fucked us. stop that. make the governmwnt stop that. we had laws intact to do so and our previous leaders, some still acting, let it happen.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
tomahawk2406 said:
i want control over corporations that prey on the people.
all i'm saying is OUR government let businesses and banks have more freedom.......that fucked us. stop that. make the government stop that. we had laws intact to do so and our previous leaders, some still acting, let it happen.
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anyone who uses the generic term "prey on the people" is suspect. just what is it that you object to? are these illegal or immoral actions or are they merely business practices that take full advantage of a businesses position in the marketplace? is it that you object to businesses having freedom or that you believe individuals should have more freedom themselves? with the latter i'd have to agree. if it's the former, i'd have to say it sounds more like sour grapes than constructive criticism.
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
anyone who uses the generic term "prey on the people" is suspect. just what is it that you object to? are these illegal or immoral actions or are they merely business practices that take full advantage of a businesses position in the marketplace? is it that you object to businesses having freedom or that you believe individuals should have more freedom themselves? with the latter i'd have to agree. if it's the former, i'd have to say it sounds more like sour grapes than constructive criticism.
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ummm do u recall the fallout from 07-08? years of fraud from giant securities and investment firms that sold billions of dollars worth of garbage CDO that they then bet against to fail in order to make money. selling garbage loans just to make more money. they had no regards are to what happens when everything fails. they secured retirement funds and pentions and said fuck the others. u dont remember them getting their asses chewed by congress for being scumfucks in their business practices? they muttered studdered and said "well u shouldnt believe us when we tell u its a good loan." if you like that sort of thing going on then more power to u. but business can and will override government. causing fallout. especially when half the fucks in the government are or where associated with the financing of american economy. i dont get any sort of argument? we regulated shit like this before in the past, unregulated it, shit got f ked up, and were scratching our heads. its insanity. regulate for christ sakes. unfortunatley alot of the damage has already been done since all those bailouts opened americas eyes
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
im actually kinda disturbed u support people being fucked like that...... your basically saying tough luck? its a free country?
 
C

Coals

Active Member
Pure Capitalism is really bad
Pure Socialism is really bad

The key is to ride the center and reach a compromise with the two. We abseloutly need both and can not survive with just one. Lean too far one way and we pay dearly. We have without a doubt leaned to far towards pure Capitalism and we are paying dearly. Unfortunatley there is a small percentage of people (about the richest 1%) who have managed to convince about 50% of the people that we need to become even more capitalistic in order to save us, which is fairly counterintuitive.
 
tomahawk2406

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
Coals said:
Pure Capitalism is really bad
Pure Socialism is really bad

The key is to ride the center and reach a compromise with the two. We abseloutly need both and can not survive with just one. Lean too far one way and we pay dearly. We have without a doubt leaned to far towards pure Capitalism and we are paying dearly. Unfortunatley there is a small percentage of people (about the richest 1%) who have managed to convince about 50% of the people that we need to become even more capitalistic in order to save us, which is fairly counterintuitive.
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couldnt have said it better myself dewd.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
tomahawk2406 said:
ummm do u recall the fallout from 07-08? years of fraud from giant securities and investment firms that sold billions of dollars worth of garbage CDO that they then bet against to fail in order to make money. selling garbage loans just to make more money. they had no regards are to what happens when everything fails. they secured retirement funds and pentions and said fuck the others. u dont remember them getting their asses chewed by congress for being scumfucks in their business practices? they muttered studdered and said "well u shouldnt believe us when we tell u its a good loan." if you like that sort of thing going on then more power to u. but business can and will override government. causing fallout. especially when half the fucks in the government are or where associated with the financing of american economy. i dont get any sort of argument? we regulated shit like this before in the past, unregulated it, shit got f ked up, and were scratching our heads. its insanity. regulate for christ sakes. unfortunatley alot of the damage has already been done since all those bailouts opened americas eyes
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you need to re read mine and UTI posts. the corps you are talking about are very close to the state. regulated in everyway by the state. when they did a shitty job, the state bailed them out with our money. that is excatly the corp the founders were talking about. and the govt unions. they manipulate by haveing a direct link to the workers money by taking dues, and colletcting taxes to the peopel who pay the taxes. in other words they can give raises to themselves and the tax payer has little to no recourse and must pay them.

they werent against corp like lowes, or walmarts, they were against corperations that were directly run for/from the govt, and for its edification only.
 
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