Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

[dertmagert]

hey al.. ive been reading your thread with much interest. im planning on a perpetual harvest (i have a bunch of clones, a veg chamber with my mothers already sexed) and my flowering chamber... its about 4 x 3 x 7.. i only have a 430 hps enhanced spectrum in that area but i think its workin out pretty good.. (check it out) .. i should be able to rotate 12 plants ( 3 every other week ) in here right? or do u think im better off growing em big n bushy?



"high pressure sodium sunrise"

 

[dertmagert]

(( ive only began to doubt my lights effectiveness just now when reading you and videomans feud ))

and here i thought i was looking good.... sheesh

 

[mr thc]

what is your monthly electrical bill (just the one grow room.) I'm very interested in this....sounds like the kind of project for my next grow. How much daily work does it require would you say? I go to university....but would a student with time in the morning ( 7:00-8:00) and time in the afternoon (4pm+) be able to maintain such an indoor garden? I'd like any kind of prices you can give me...from nutrients to ph up/down...I just want to have an estimation cost, this has excited me

 

[daddychrisg]

I don't know what I would do if I could not use H2O2 in my tanks.

Hey Al, where did you say you get your H2O2? I remember you saying that you found it for a good price awhile back...I have been using cannazym and Sub-culture for awhile now with results that are less then legendary, but I would like to give H2O2 a chance since my buckets get pretty gooped up...BTW I have done some testing and research on PH levels of foliar spray solutions. What I have found is just like you have said in the past, that a PH of 9 is not going to hurt a plant if only sprayed a once-twice a week...So, after a week of research, I am still pretty much in the same boat as I was from the beginning...I hate spraying my plants with anything! I hope that changes at some point...Thanks for the rockin thread....

 

[Al B. Fuct]

do u think im better off growing em big n bushy?

Of course I don't. I've gone to great pains in a recent, very long post to describe why bushy plants are not desirable for indoor growers, as well. Your 430HPS is going to be a problem with the bushiness you have now. SoG makes much better use of lower powered lights due to reduction of empty space between plants and elimination of unnecessary foliage, which you have lots of at the moment.

what is your monthly electrical bill (just the one grow room.) I'm very interested in this....sounds like the kind of project for my next grow. How much daily work does it require would you say? I go to university....but would a student with time in the morning ( 7:00-8:00) and time in the afternoon (4pm+) be able to maintain such an indoor garden? I'd like any kind of prices you can give me...from nutrients to ph up/down...I just want to have an estimation cost, this has excited me

The daily work isn't the time burner- it can be as little as 10 mins a day for basic checks, just to see that water pumps have run, air pumps are running, water levels OK, temp & RH range OK, etc.

Harvesting and biweekly tank dumps are time consuming. I've mostly automated the tank dump with some valving and hoses but the tanks have to be cleaned (a swish with a toilet-type brush, wet with full strength 50% H2O2), rinsed, drained again and refilled/mixed. Harvesting is nose-down, hard old work... that I should be doing now instead of writing this. It will take me 3-4 days of seriously cross-eyed snippery, around 12-14hrs marathon manicuring per day, to harvest a tray.

The problem you will have is that an op the size of mine is a full time job with emergency, non-optional overtime for about 5 days every 2 weeks. Each time a batch comes out to be harvested, a batch of cuttings has to be done, all plants get sprayed for powdery mildew prevention then get shifted to the next tray. While trays are empty when moving plants around, I clean them out as well. At the same time, 23 pots have to be packed with media and prepared for the batch of clones now rooted and ready to go in to flower. I should be packing pots as we speak!

You can calculate your potential power bill by multiplying the kWh price by your op's power draw in kW. In example, a 400W (0.4kW) light running 12 hours per day at a $0.15/kWh rate will cost 0.4kW x $0.15 per kWh = $0.06 per hour x 12 hours = $0.72 per day. Your mileage may vary due to your power co's kWh rate. Get out ye olde calculator and get busy.

I don't know what I would do if I could not use H2O2 in my tanks.

Hey Al, where did you say you get your H2O2? I remember you saying that you found it for a good price awhile back...I have been using cannazym and Sub-culture for awhile now with results that are less then legendary, but I would like to give H2O2 a chance since my buckets get pretty gooped up...BTW I have done some testing and research on PH levels of foliar spray solutions. What I have found is just like you have said in the past, that a PH of 9 is not going to hurt a plant if only sprayed a once-twice a week...So, after a week of research, I am still pretty much in the same boat as I was from the beginning...I hate spraying my plants with anything! I hope that changes at some point...Thanks for the rockin thread....

Thanks for the thanks.

Remember, if you are on organic nutes, you'll have to switch to std types before using H2O2.

I buy 25L jugs of 50% grade H2O2 from a hydroponics equip wholesaler. About $125. Lasts several months.

Dose your buckets at 1ml/litre every 3-4 days. If you have a lot of organic goo in them, a one time shock treatment at about 3ml/L followed by regular 1ml/L dosing each 3-4 days ought to pretty things up a bit.

Yep, if you're going to foliar spray, 2x weekly is about as often as you'd ever want to do it.

I spray plants 1x every 2 wks for powdery mildew prevention. If I have healthy roots, I don't see any need to foliar feed. Trying a new product for PM called 'Micro Kill' by Nefarious. Supposed to be a nontoxic yucca or cactus plant extract with no withholding period for fruits or veg sprayed with the stuff. I hate the smell of the lime sulfur crap, have also noted it can cause some leaf deformation on growing tips of young wk1-2 plants, even when used well below the recommended 1ml/L dosage rate (I've been using 0.5ml/L) They get over the deformation rather quickly but it still annoys me. Gotta be something better. We'll see how we go.

 

[psyclone]

"Of course I don't. I've gone to great pains in a recent, very long post to describe why bushy plants are not desirable for indoor growers, as well. Your 430HPS is going to be a problem with the bushiness you have now. SoG makes much better use of lower powered lights due to reduction of empty space between plants ".

Thanks Al, great thread-7.5oz SOG baby cured and jarred fathered by 250watt dual spectrum bulb. I am a convert. And, bugger the UV.

 

[We TaRdED]

you da man al b fuct(yes that was a promotion, lol)! why hasnt this been stickied yet???

ok i have a list of questions for you, sorry... you can answer after you do your manicuring, cloning, repotting, or w/e else. i just got around to reading the whole thing, and cant thanks you enough for sharing.

do you think that your flood tables create enough moisture to create a PM(p mildew) problem? i just dont know how much h20 evaporates after one gets flooded.

do you think one gallon grow bags would do the trick instead of pots? do you think they are of similar volume?

you said that you've tried aeroponics and you had problems with it, what happened again? also do you have to clean the misters once every two days, say from using using GH flora series nutes? i was thinking about doing my own aero build but after reading this thread im more poised to try E&F now... is aero that touchy/ messes up alot? i know if power goes out then your plants are in jeopardy, but other than that what are some drawbacks?

how bad is chlorine/tap water for your plant/roots?

i did a little breeding(or at least am trying to) with a couple plants and was curious to hold long does it normally take for the hairs to change color after the pistols conceive pollen? kinda off the subject, and i know you mostly deal with clones, but it seems like you know everything about herb.

should/do you have to ph your water when flushing? i know you dont flush but hypothetically speaking, does it make a difference what the ph is? there are no nutes to be absorbed so i wouldnt see a reason for getting the ph to optimal level.

what are your res temps? what do you think the highest acceptable temps are for your set up b4 you start to see negative effects? you dont have to worry about DO as much because you add h2o2. do you think if your res temps were lower that it would make a positive effect on your yield?

how many gph is your pumps?

i hope i didnt ask any redundant questions(there has been a few to say the least), but its a real long read.

last but not least.....................when are you going to write a grow bible? hehe.

sorry for inundating you with Q's.....thanks a bunch, cheers, have a bloody g'day mate!

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Thanks Al, great thread-7.5oz SOG baby cured and jarred fathered by 250watt dual spectrum bulb. I am a convert. And, bugger the UV.

well done, great work.

you da man al b fuct(yes that was a promotion, lol)! why hasnt this been stickied yet???

Thanks for the praise, but on a lot of days, I don't feel like 'da' man, but rather 'DUH' man. I absolutely do get it wrong from time to time. Go back through this thread in its entirety and you'll catch me out a couple of times.

This thread probably doesn't need to be sticky- with as much activity as this thread sees (over 47,000 reads at last look), it sorta stickies itself.

ok i have a list of questions for you, sorry... you can answer after you do your manicuring, cloning, repotting, or w/e else. i just got around to reading the whole thing, and cant thanks you enough for sharing.

do you think that your flood tables create enough moisture to create a PM(p mildew) problem? i just dont know how much h20 evaporates after one gets flooded.

Thanks for the thanks.

The flood tables are only flooded for about 3-5 mins, 2x per day. The nute tanks are open and thus a constant source of evaporation, but to cover them would create a fungus, mould and bacteria trap. Much more significant sources of moisture in the air are evaporation directly from the media and especially from the plants' leaves. I'm working with a rather small airmass for the number of plants, but I do have means to cut the humidity and also massive exhaust ventilation capacity.

do you think one gallon grow bags would do the trick instead of pots? do you think they are of similar volume?

No, I would not recommend grow bags. I use individual pots of media because it allows me to pick up and move plants within the op to even out growth and for maintenance like spraying, etc. Grow bags, which contain media for several plants, limit plant mobility. I also don't think grow bags are intended for flood & drain systems. I'll suggest they'll be more expensive than bulk media as well.

Not sure about the volume of my 175mm dia x 175mm tall pots, but I'm sure you can math out the volume of a cylinder (or find an online calculator to do it for you).

you said that you've tried aeroponics and you had problems with it, what happened again?

My aero system created mist with air stones and bubble curtains in a common tank, above which the plants were suspended in netpots full of clay pellets. Air bubbles breaking the rez surface created the mist droplets. An air pump failure killed a bunch of plants. I (re) converted the system to flood operation in pots of absorbent media to prevent a recurrence.

also do you have to clean the misters once every two days, say from using using GH flora series nutes? i was thinking about doing my own aero build but after reading this thread im more poised to try E&F now... is aero that touchy/ messes up alot? i know if power goes out then your plants are in jeopardy, but other than that what are some drawbacks?

All nutrient solns will leave a nute crust buildup when allowed to dry on a surface or when forced through a small aperture. All of 'em, no way around it. The mineral salts in nutrients are solids when you take away the water.
If your aero system creates mist by moving water through a spray nozzle, crust will accumulate unless cleaned pretty much every other day.

Small apertures can also be clogged by any particulate matter loose in the reservoir. If you're going to pump water rather than air for an aero system, a suitable filter on the water pump inlet is a pretty good idea.

how bad is chlorine/tap water for your plant/roots?

It's not bad at all. Chlorination as applied in municipal water systems does not hurt plants. I don't know where this idea got started. Chlorination is your friend. It keeps pathogens suppressed while the water is in the reticulation system and also for the first 2-4 days standing in an open tank. Yibbayabba about reverse-osmosis, distilled or other fancy water for cannabis plants is a total (and expensive) wank. Tapwater is fine... unless your taps are connected to a bore water of very poor quality, with high salinity or high mineral salt (esp limestone) content. I've never seen a problem in any hydroponic op caused by municipal water.

i did a little breeding(or at least am trying to) with a couple plants and was curious to hold long does it normally take for the hairs to change color after the pistols conceive pollen? kinda off the subject, and i know you mostly deal with clones, but it seems like you know everything about herb.

"pistols conceive pollen"

um... what?

If you're asking how long it should take for calyxes to brown off after being pollinated, probably within a few days or so.

should/do you have to ph your water when flushing? i know you dont flush but hypothetically speaking, does it make a difference what the ph is? there are no nutes to be absorbed so i wouldnt see a reason for getting the ph to optimal level.

I think you're right. It'd save you about 20ml of pHDown per 125L of nute soln if you didn't use it. However, 2L of pHDown only costs about $10. 20ml of the stuff is worth 10 cents.

what are your res temps? what do you think the highest acceptable temps are for your set up b4 you start to see negative effects? you dont have to worry about DO as much because you add h2o2. do you think if your res temps were lower that it would make a positive effect on your yield?

I have no idea what my res temps are, never have measured them. My roots are not dangling in my res tanks; it's not a terribly useful measurement for a flood system.

how many gph is your pumps?

No idea.I have some of the very smallest, cheapest ones on the shelf at the hydro shop, which would perhaps be 140L/hr and a couple other bigger ones. All they need to do is fill the flood trays to the overflow tube level in 3-5 minutes, 2x per day. Flow rate for pumps in a flood system is not a critical issue.

last but not least.....................when are you going to write a grow bible? hehe.

I thought that's what I'm doing now!

 

[We TaRdED]

well done, great work.
Go back through this thread in its entirety and you'll catch me out a couple of times.

ya i have, its all good though. you have a lot of respect from me.

No, I would not recommend grow bags. I use individual pots of media because it allows me to pick up and move plants within the op to even out growth and for maintenance like spraying, etc. Grow bags, which contain media for several plants, limit plant mobility. I also don't think grow bags are intended for flood & drain systems. I'll suggest they'll be more expensive than bulk media as well.

i think we arent on the same page on this one. they are basically panda film that has holes in the bottom. some are all black and others are white on the outside. what do you think about these? these come with no medium in them and come in a variety of sizes.

Amazon.com: Plastic Grow Bag - 2 gallon: Home Improvement

My aero system created mist with air stones and bubble curtains in a common tank, above which the plants were suspended in netpots full of clay pellets. Air bubbles breaking the rez surface created the mist droplets. An air pump failure killed a bunch of plants. I (re) converted the system to flood operation in pots of absorbent media to prevent a recurrence.

im new to this hydro thing........that kinda sounds like DWC/bubbleponics to me...... im a noob, sorry but what is the difference between this and a DWC system?

"pistols conceive pollen"

um... what?



If you're asking how long it should take for calyxes to brown off after being pollinated, probably within a few days or so.

umm maybe i used the wrong words. noob mistake. when i said pistols i meant the white hairs. so how long does it take for the hairs to change color after they come in contact with pollen? or am i way wrong?

i didnt know the calyxes changed color after being pollinated... ill have to keep and eye out for that.

No idea.I have some of the very smallest, cheapest ones on the shelf at the hydro shop, which would perhaps be 140L/hr and a couple other bigger ones. All they need to do is fill the flood trays to the overflow tube level in 3-5 minutes, 2x per day. Flow rate for pumps in a flood system is not a critical issue.


I thought that's what I'm doing now!

ya, i didnt think it mattered much, but i just figured i would ask to be on the safe side, just in case.

thanks for all the great info, much obliged my friend. will keep an eye out for any updates and new info. you should publish a book. i would buy it... lol.. ty again

 

[Al B. Fuct]

i think we arent on the same page on this one. they are basically panda film that has holes in the bottom. some are all black and others are white on the outside. what do you think about these? these come with no medium in them and come in a variety of sizes.

Amazon.com: Plastic Grow Bag - 2 gallon: Home Improvement

Ah, OK, I thought you might have been talking about this or this.

My only concern about the grow bags you picture is their durability. Would suck if however they are sealed on the bottom came unsealed at some point. If durable, they should be OK.

im new to this hydro thing........that kinda sounds like DWC/bubbleponics to me...... im a noob, sorry but what is the difference between this and a DWC system?

The water level.

Lower the water level in a DWC to below the roots and generate an aerosol mist and bang, you have aero!

so how long does it take for the hairs to change color after they come in contact with pollen? or am i way wrong?

A few days.

i didnt know the calyxes changed color after being pollinated... ill have to keep and eye out for that.

Yes, they do, but that's not the only reason they change colour. Unpollinated calyxes will brown off when they are past fertility, as well.

thanks for all the great info, much obliged my friend. will keep an eye out for any updates and new info. you should publish a book. i would buy it... lol.. ty again

no worries.

If I were to write a grow book, I wouldn't attempt to write a general text about growing cannabis, the reason being that I'm NOT an all-around expert. For example, I'd be shithouse giving advice on outdoor guerrilla growing; there's some seriously outdoorsy people around with much more on the ball about that niche than me. As a matter of fact, I'd be in a world of trouble if I suddenly had to grow outdoors.

If I wrote a guidebook, I'd concentrate on construction and operation of practical, stealthy, continuously productive indoor SoG ops- like the one I'm running now. I'm close to the end of the dialing in of this style of op, but I still don't think I have got it fully sussed yet.

I also don't think that grow books are terribly big sellers. It's hard to justify a big print run of books. I did think about writing one some years ago with the intent of selling it online, but when you sell one copy, you've sold a million, if you know what I mean.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Believe it or not, there actually are interesting things going on in Utah!

Utah State University has a Crop Physiology lab where they develop hydroponic systems and plants for growth on a space station. There's some information in here for earthlings, tho. Good stuff about exactly how much dissolved O2 in nute solution oxygenation is enough, etc.

Check this presentation of paper on Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Culture by USU Professor of Crop Physiology, Bruce Bugbee, as presented at the South Pacific Soil-less Culture Conference Feb 11, 2003 in Palmerston North, New Zealand.

Damn, if we could only get Dr Bugbee interested in growing a bit of weed.

Interesting as well is the USU research on 'superdwarf' plants. While they are working with plants that have been hybridised specifically for small size, they also build hydroponic growing systems which exploit certain characters of the plants also to manage size and minimise unnecessary foliage... pretty much as you see happening every day here in Casa del Fuct.

 

[cmak40]

Al B. Fuct "Remember, if you are on organic nutes, you'll have to switch to std types before using H2O2. "

Im just curious as to what you mean by STD type organic nutes? thanx again Al

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Im just curious as to what you mean by STD type organic nutes?

Those based on stable chemical fertilisers instead of those comprised of organic compounds like compost tea, worm castings, bat guano, etc. Things like GH's or Canna's regular lines of hydroponic nutrients are 'chemical' or non-organic.

It's easy to avoid organics, cos if there's a skerrick of anything remotely organic in a hydroponic nutrient, some marketing genius will have told you about it on the top of the bottle's label, in 96 point red letters, usually.

 

[psyclone]

Al, this may interest you
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/56014-root-grafting.html

 

[hellraizer30]

hey al got a question for ya, you say you cycle new mothers in every 3-4
times you take off them, at least thats what ive gathered from your post.
So you worried about your strain geting cloned out or do you have a master
mother you pull off of? reason I ask is Ive read that the strian weekends the
more you get from the first gen. of the strain. and you dont keep a lid on your
res tanks?

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Al, this may interest you
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/56014-root-grafting.html

Thanks for that psy, but grafting is a waste of time for cannabis. It's OK for fruit trees, which may take years to grow, but I can make an entirely new cannabis plant in 6 days.

Be especially wary of anyone who wants to graft cannabis on to hops... wives' tale city.

hey al got a question for ya, you say you cycle new mothers in every 3-4
times you take off them, at least thats what ive gathered from your post.
So you worried about your strain geting cloned out or do you have a master
mother you pull off of? reason I ask is Ive read that the strian weekends the
more you get from the first gen. of the strain. and you dont keep a lid on your
res tanks?

No, I replace the mothers because after a spell, they can pick up bugs in the rootball or become rootbound, losing vigor for those reasons. There's no such thing as 'cloned out.' You can continuously replace mums with one of their children, ad infinitum. DNA doesn't wear out and is not altered in any way by cutting a branch off a donor plant.

A clone is comprised of 'new' material. DNA doesn't wear out but it does express aging if allowed to get old. If you tried to keep a 'master' mum for years, you would run into how old cannabis plants behave. Clones taken from a very old mum just might give you trouble, simply due to the characters of aging.

I've covered this topic in this thread a few times. The nonsense about strains 'weakening' after repeated rolling cloning is just that- nonsense. It comes from people with an incomplete understanding of how DNA & asexual reproduction actually work. I've had several people absolutely insist that you can't keep cloning off a strain forever... to those people, I only have to point to my op and the Sweet Tooth #4 I've been propagating since about 2002.

No, I don't cover my tanks. That would create a moisture trap which would encourage pathogen growth. If water were hard for me to come by, I might cover them to save the few litres of water per week evaporated from the tanks, but at 80c per 1000L, I'm leaving them open.

 

[stickyicky77]

Thanks for that psy, but grafting is a waste of time for cannabis. It's OK for fruit trees, which may take years to grow, but I can make an entirely new cannabis plant in 6 days.

Be especially wary of anyone who wants to graft cannabis on to hops... wives' tale city.



No, I replace the mothers because after a spell, they can pick up bugs in the rootball or become rootbound, losing vigor for those reasons. There's no such thing as 'cloned out.' You can continuously replace mums with one of their children, ad infinitum. DNA doesn't wear out and is not altered in any way by cutting a branch off a donor plant.

A clone is comprised of 'new' material. DNA doesn't wear out but it does express aging if allowed to get old. If you tried to keep a 'master' mum for years, you would run into how old cannabis plants behave. Clones taken from a very old mum just might give you trouble, simply due to the characters of aging.

I've covered this topic in this thread a few times. The nonsense about strains 'weakening' after repeated rolling cloning is just that- nonsense. It comes from people with an incomplete understanding of how DNA & asexual reproduction actually work. I've had several people absolutely insist that you can't keep cloning off a strain forever... to those people, I only have to point to my op and the Sweet Tooth #4 I've been propagating since about 2002.

No, I don't cover my tanks. That would create a moisture trap which would encourage pathogen growth. If water were hard for me to come by, I might cover them to save the few litres of water per week evaporated from the tanks, but at 80c per 1000L, I'm leaving them open.

Doesn't alge grow in your rez with no lid on it ? I know that light and nutes = alge.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

Doesn't alge grow in your rez with no lid on it ? I know that light and nutes = alge.

The tanks are located beneath the flood trays, preventing direct light from reaching the tanks.

Regular (every 3-4 days) dosing with 50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/L prevents algae, fungus, etc. from gaining a foothold in the nute tanks anyway.

 

[We TaRdED]

No, I don't cover my tanks. That would create a moisture trap which would encourage pathogen growth.

i didnt know that. i think i have seen some grows where people actually close the res up pretty good(but leaving a way to check ph, tds, and water level or w/e). why does a moisture trap create pathogen growth? sorry for the stupid question but im stumped. thanks al.

 

[Al B. Fuct]

why does a moisture trap create pathogen growth?

Most simple organisms are more successful in wet or highly humid environments as they are not generally large enough to move their own water supplies with them.